South American leaders launch new alliance

reply to post by stumason

And what purpose would that serve? It would collapse the very system that sustains their way of life. Rich people, in the event of energy shortages, starvation and WW3 would suffer just as badly as the rest of us...

I doubt that, but we aren't really just talking about the "rich people" here anyway. This is the work of the elites. The same people who did not suffer, but instead profited from World Wars and economic collapses. People like the Rothschilds, who seized control of your central bank by deliberately collapsing the economy based on false news from Waterloo.

Hence why I believe that the fear comes from a realisation that you will cease to hold you dominant position and be forced to deal with people on equal terms.

You seem to have a dreadful lack of undertanding of Americans then. We are a freedom loving people under despotic rule. While I admit that the larger portion of the population has seemed to have fallen under the hypnosis of un-checked capitalism and the sinsiter works of the elites, the average Americans, however "patriotic" they may be, are not imperialists.





[edit on 5/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by stumason

And whose fault is that?

Well, if we knew that exactly, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
You're missing the point. This plays right into the hands of the people who want to take away the last of your rights and freedoms. This isn't about South America being strong and competitive in world. This is a major move in the consolidation of power by the elites. The same people calling the shots in the Union of South America, will be the same ones calling the shots in the NAU, in Europe, and over the Pan-Asian bloc.

Hi Jack: On this one I have to disagree with you. The people who are "in charge" in S. America aren't the same ones as will be in charge of NAU. That's WHY S. America is doing this, so that they will be stronger and more able to protect themselves against this kind of thing happening to them. They are finally beginning to break free of the stranglehold the CIA and the U.S. govt has had over S. America for decades. They are becoming socialist and taking charge of their own govt. I think Hugo Chavez would rather die than have his country taken over by the U.S. His goal is a "Bolivarian revolution" for all of S. America.

reply to post by stumason


Yes we can blame this on the government and our governments controllers. You say we elect the people into office but you get 2 choices and both say do this....this is the problem with our system. I will say this stumason we have been asleep for a long time and now starting to wake up to the reality that our government is really not OUR government. Its a 2 party dictatorship that really needs to be changed. This election cycle is the start I know the right people will not get elected this round but Im hope next round ....then again I hope its not to late.


Jack I agree it is disturbing that this is not in our media AT ALL. They for some reason wanted this slid under the rug. It will be brought out in the future though to justify a NAU.

For those who think a North American Union or NWO is a good thing I will have to disagree. Let me ask all of you guys something all you people from all over the world do you like how the US government has been ran? Im willing to bet 90% of you will say no well just imagine the one world under one government ran by the same people who are pulling the strings in our government. We will ALL be slaves to the man. That is the bigger picture you people are failing to see and most Americans. This here is the first line of defense. If the NWO get their way human freedoms will be gone forever in the disguise of one world under one government. Please see my Avatar.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by mybigunit]

en.wikipedia.org...

Seems to be yet another step to the unification of the world.

step 1 : supranational laws (geneva convention, UN)

step 2 : Regional blocs of EU, USAN, NAU, ASEAN, Africa, ANZAC

step 3 : Unification of all blocs into a single state: Earth


Whether or not this is a good thing is highly debateable. There are convincing arguments from both sides of the coin.

reply to post by endrun


See the post by 44Soulslayer. These blocs are a part of the plan to bring about domination by the elites under a NWO.

I am against the consolidation of power, especially in these times of a fearful lack of integrity and righteousness.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. A shift like this puts more power in the hands of the few, wether or not it is labeled as "socialist."

While I have have some weaknesses toward socialist ideals in theory, I am not for sacrificing one's rights in the name of socialism. And in practice, this is always how it turns out. Look at what has happened to America. We have thrown our Constitution away in favor of socialist ideology, and yet the people still suffer.

Take the American legal system for example. Whereas once the United States were a strong Republic with law strictly based upon the ideals set forth by our founders in the Constitution, we have made a dramatic shift toward a socialist Democracy. Now today, the rights of the individual laid out clearly in the Constitution, have become mere privileges which can be extended and taken away arbitrarily, in the name of what is in the best interests of the people. If your rights under the Constitution are seen as interfering with what a judge deems to be the best interests of the public at large, you lose your case, regardless of statute. In other words, they can move the goal posts whenever they see fit, and legislate from the bench. These are the evils of socialism.

And a socialist revolution in S. America plays right in to that.

Jack, I usually agree with you, but on this one, I don't. I don't think America has become socialist at all, but rather fascist. We don't have national health care, most people have no retirement pension at this point, we don't have national child care or any of those things that Europe has.

I still don't agree with you about the elites controlling S. America. I do think that they are trying to amalgamate nations into several blocs, but this one is perpetrated by Hugo Chavez, Lula of Brasil, and others like them. They are trying to protect themselves from forceably becoming part of the NAU, I think.

I'm curious, who do YOU think is in charge of S. America at this point?

reply to post by endrun

We don't have national health care, most people have no retirement pension at this point, we don't have national child care or any of those things that Europe has.

Well, I agree with you there. So our legal system has been socialized to implements a fascist police state. Remember, the Nazis were "socialists" too. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. But we don't get any of the goodies to go along with it. What's "good" for the people when it comes to "security" and surveillance, but bugger putting food on the table.

I'm curious, who do YOU think is in charge of S. America at this point?

Okay, let's put it this way. Let's say that you're right. South America has taken a stand against capitalist imperialism. They have united, to become their own socioeconomic powerhouse. How long do you think it will be before they are infiltrated and seized in a clandestine coup? Great, so the US doesn't have to topple one government at a time anymore, and install some fascist dictator, like they did in Chile for example. Now they can seize all of South America all at once.

Think it can't/won't happen? It happened right here in the US. What do you think that was when JFK was shot?

EDIT to add:

Good points you raise though.



[edit on 5/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox


I think you both are right. Overall we are fascist where the corporations control our government. There is socialism in this country but its only for the rich for the most part with a small amount going back to the people. You see the socialism like the bear stearns bailouts and what not. I do think Venezuela for example is against the imperialism same with Iran thats why they booted the dollar and nationalized oil and what not. They are socialistic. Thats why they only pay $.12 for a gallon of gas. But Chavez is in it for his own power. He loves having the power.

i believe this south american union isnt being setup by s.american heads of state but by our own governments covert action to push these unions into place,,, for the nwo

Perhaps those that are looking at Chavez as a mere disenter of the US should look at the overall actions and who will benefit from all the resources encompased in the South American region, when these socalist systems bring all democratic institutions down, leaving nothing but poverty but resources intact. The US has been depleted, the lack of industries and resources are an attestment to that, the people are been left in economic struggle to be in debt, liberties less and less, and enslaved to the government through more taxes to pay the attrocious debt incurred to this date. Needless to say, the power money generating machine that people represent through expenditure and consumption is about to not bring a lot of money to the coffers of those that control lives.. however, its money it would get from American citizens one way or the other. It appears that this was planned and designed to happen just this way. So the new cycle of take over o humanity starts, the elimination of borders (it is what is been talked about in S.America), the subjugation of people through socialist governments, the protection of resources in terms of nationalization, but who will benefit from those resources later on. I am sure some "saviours" will show up later in the resource reach region to "help" them stabilize and get them out of poverty. You who say that this is the start or attempt to the consolidation of power, I commend you. you have seen more than many. Has anyone given a thought that Chavez might well be a implanted front? What better way than have someone be totally against the US, meanwhile his tentacles spread throughout Europe, the Orient and including the US. Something fishy there, and how about taking a look at the Castro regime.. why leave some things out of perspective..
Greetings everyone.

reply to post by jackinthebox


OK, now I see what you're getting at. And yes, the Nazis were socialists, so I see what you're getting at. And yes, it would make it easier to take control if you have just one govt, not many.
Now, I'm off to do more research.
And you bring up good points, too.

I suppose we can only hope that the last bastions of freedom will remain in the "tax havens" of today. Dubai, Switzerland, Bahamas, Mauritius etc...

They clearly refuse to comply with the international governments' thievery via income tax, corporate tax etc.

Perhaps in the future we will see these havens as the thorns in the side of the NWO, refusing to comply with the population control measures.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Or maybe those places are only allowed to ramain free thus far, because they are hubs of the elitist economic order. I know that I don't have any Swiss bank account.

And then think about all the Jews who did have accounts and vaults in Switzerland, but never saw there money or precious goods again.

EDIT to add:

Places like this are protected. When the NWO comes sweeping in, these places are given a "pass." Just goes to show that something doesn't quite add up. Take the EU for example. Supposed to be wonderful for Europe. Economic powerhouse and such. If it's so great, why haven't the Swiss and the British switched to the Euro?

[edit on 5/26/0808 by jackinthebox]

Good to know , that peaceloving nations are finally creating a pact to protect against the evil genocidal tendencies of the american empire

Touchy little bugger, aren't you? When did I attempt to defend or excuse anything my country did?

Not so much of a "bugger" I dont think. What on earth do you think gives you the right to cast judgement on an entire country?...wait you don't have to answer that..your British..your "queen" is a descendant from 'God'.......how is the 'subject' life anyway?

What matters now is the fact that for the past 40 odd years, the USA has been meddling in S. America, overthrowing Governments and installing dictators, and perpetuating poverty through ruthless corporatism (while at the same time working to end the old European empires so they could further expand their corporate control into the former colonies and subjugate the people themselves..

uhhuh... there is an agreement here to a certain degree. Although, you do realize America was created under the umbrella of a failed attempt to expand an old european empire, which failed miserably I might add. So I guess payback is a bitch...OOPS, am I allowed to say that on here? (before you get your bowls all in an uproar, I only meant it half figuratively...lol) And I can not, unlike a know-it-all like you, give the motive behind some objectives of our governments past.

I will say there certainy has been some shady acts stemming from the American government. Though it does seem to have been perpetrated by some euro trash banksters pre WWII. And because the government has been so untransparent is the exact reason why we are in this quagmire of a national overhaul/ beginning stages of a possible revolution...by the people.

Interesting how history repeats itself though. It looks like the American gov. is acting much like the "nazis" of Britains not so distant past.

oh yes, you did, before you try to deny it....)

see..here you go again. Talking through your butt. Does it stink from down there? See, my pale skinned "bugger" of a human, there is a large difference between the people and the reigning government you are so easily confusing. And when you throw that finger, as you do so non-chalantly, it is not going to go-over so smoothly with those mis-represented people. You really should watch how you come across. One of these days it will bite you in the behind.

You can try and blame this on your Government as much as you like and shirk all responsibility, but at the end of the day, the US people voted them in. Isn't it "Government for the people, by the people?".

Let me get this straight... you are grouping all Americans because of the notion of "you voted Bush in so you are guilty!"? Are you serious? Does it get any more dense than this? Oh and btw, you are dead wrong. The first election Gore won by popular vote. (I am neither dem or republican) You perspective is laughable at the least and dilusional at best.

At least when we did it, we did it with some grace and panache.

ya, trying to load all of China with coc aine and then blackmailing them was done with tons of "panache"...

South Africa and the instigation of all the tribal wars was done so "gracefully".

The monopoly of blood diamonds...Need I go on?
You are kidding yourself there "mate"...foolish does not even describe you...
It could easily be contended, the worlds problems stem from the imperialist british/ german mentality of yester-year.

So, in your words, "get off it". I'd quite happily say these things to your face too,

Whats the matter? Can't find your own words?

it just so happens the medium we are both using is a computer screen, so I can hardly have that held against me, can I?

Touchy you say? If you mean me laying hands on you if we were face to face then touchy is an understatement...I do my best to believe and follow a non-violent life (now), but I have no problem defending my integrity or the integrity of the many good names of Americans you so dishonerably bash.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by endrun

 

In the article from my local paper, it states that Hugo Chavez specifially stated as much, calling this Union a counterweight to the US.

What concerns me most, is that this new South American Union might be used to trumpet a need for a North American Union if we are to remain competitive and secure.

If this union were to take place, its GDP would be no where near Americas (which is roughly $14 trillion).

The EU cannot even keep pace with the US. Though it has a slightly higher GDP, it has a 30% larger population, that is not entirely impressive given the raw numbers.


[edit on 26-5-2008 by West Coast]