gigantic cigar shaped UFO, video

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Actually I have a pretty good idea what this is and it's not a hoax.

Let me quess: it is an atmospheric mirage? Sun dogs?
We espect your thoughts especially after that convincing analysis with mirage effects

reply to post by depthoffield


OK I see this thread isn't dead yet!

After reading Dr. Maccabee's report that the object was sighted at 121 azimuth approximately 20 degrees left of the sun, I went to the location (exact location not provided but the town of Salida is small so it's close enough I think) in Google Earth, and "flew" to a heading of about 140 degrees (not sure it's exactly that in Google Earth but it's close).

I recorded an animation of that flight and included a screenshot of the destination here:



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3de8c84b09a8.jpg[/atsimg]

I saw some features here mentioned in the description of the other witness:
www.qtm.net...

A major disappointment of this sighting was the failure to obtain a good triangulation. Apparently the only other witness at a different location to clearly observe the UFO was Mike Maggio, an employee at the restaurant who saw that it close to the sun (according to Jennie Zeidman). Mike told Jenny he saw small objects the shape of a boomerang coming off the main object.

Too bad he didn't get video of the boomerang shapes, but I did notice some boomerang shapes on either side of a relatively short straight section in the river, I superimposed the cigar shape on the straight section here:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/206c35a2b391.jpg[/atsimg]

Hint #1: On the left of the cigar shape, I see a boomerang shape curving up, and on the right, I see a boomerang shape heading down. Do you see it too?
Hint #2: The color of the cigar shape is about the color of sunlight as seen here:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/45e5e3d3e224.png[/atsimg]

Switching to a different place, we see sunlight reflecting off of a lake, and it's in the familiar "cigar shape":

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8618581d316d.jpg[/atsimg]

Hint #3: The cigar shape itself

Here is the larger view of that closeup:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ba0e0f290786.jpg[/atsimg]

See how the sun reflects in a ball shape at the bottom and then a cigar shape above that?

You can get either type of reflection but the water has to be pretty smooth to get the ball shape. If you have turbulence from wind or water motion on the surface of the water, the reflection may NOT be a ball and can be in the shape of a cigar as this illustrates.

Hint #5: The description of the object made by the photographer Tim Edwards (From the video posted by Internos on p1):

"It almost looks like we are looking through a transparent cloud or something...."

Yes it DOES as this capture from his video shows, the "object" is not solid at all but very transparent, early in the video:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2e4944e08074.png[/atsimg]

OK Next during this transparent phase, we will look at the technical term "blobs" used by Dr. Maccabee

bright whitish "blobs" appear to move sporadically left or right within the overall UFO image.

You can duplicate these blobs in your backyard with a kiddie pool or other reflective surface. Hold up a white sheet of construction paper so you can see the reflection of the sun on the paper from the smooth surface of the water. Now, disturb the water, have someone stick their hand in it and make some small waves. The small waves can concentrate the light where they make concave shapes and spread out the light where they make convex shapes. You will also observe the blobs in your backyard experiment can move way faster than a physical object can, just like the blobs in the Salida video move!

Hint #6: The blobs look just like surface reflections from a water surface disturbed by wind or turbulence, and the semi-transparent appearance at this time indicates the Sun may be reflecting mostly off of disturbances in the water surface. It is only later in the video when the sun rises a little more that the cigar shape takes on a more solid appearance

Hint #7: The time it takes for the semi-transparent object to transition to a more solid looking object is consistent with the earth's rotation, if we initially have only a few disturbances reflecting initially, then more and more as the sun continues to rise.

Hint #8: The apparent size of the object is about right in the sky to be related to the shapes we see in the river, at least we can't rule that out. Dr. Maccabee was unable to make a detailed triangulation from the two sightings.

Hint #9: the town of Salida and the river valley to the southeast are in a valley. Valleys are notoriously good places for atmospheric temperature inversions to take place. And we know that such temperature inversions can cause reflections in the sky. Here's what can happen when there's a temperature inversion:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2e2f356c5d4.jpg[/atsimg]

Now I've given 9 hints but haven't yet said what the object is. Any guesses now that you have more hints?

And lastly, here is hint 10: An observer living in Salida is sure to encounter some strong thermal inversions several times a year. Such an observer looking in the direction of the sun is very likely to see superior atmospheric reflections in the sky of the sun reflecting off the river. Given what we know about optical physics, if such an event were to be videotaped, it could look very much like the video made by Tim Edwards. In fact we would expect there to be additional such sightings and apparently there have been:

www.ufoinfo.com...

HOVERING ORBS SEEN IN SALIDA, COLORADO

On Saturday, July 12, 1997, at 10 p.m., Alan, a cook at the Patio Restaurant, spotted "a white globe appearing as a bright star and then blowing up to about half the size of the full moon" over Salida, Colorado.

Salida (population 4,870) has been a UFO hotspot for the past two years. The town is located on Colorado Highway 50 about 85 miles (136 kilometers) southwest of Denver.

The white globe retreated to the south, passing over Methodist Mountain, 12 miles (19 kilometers) south of Salida.

Salida a UFO hotspot? Yes we should expect that. The more astute observers will note that a solar eclipse works so well because the sun and the moon are about the same apparent size from our perspective, so if the white globe is about the same size of the sun, can anyone guess what it might be? And the transition from a star-like point to a white globe is due to the Earth's rotation, you can pick up hints of the sun's reflection in surface turbulence before you get the entire reflection due to the earth's rotation. And as shown in the lake video, the sun can reflect as a round globe, or a cigar shape, or even both in the same photo.

If people aren't seeing these reflections in the sky it would only be because they aren't looking. We expect to see and do see reflections in the sky just as the observers describe, and perhaps in this case, videotaped.

Temperature inversion?


Sorry, but I recall back in the 70s that was one of the few canned Bluebook explanations, along with swamp gas, ball lightning, weather balloons, and Venus.


While I admit that temperature inversions can cause mirages like you've shown [well explained, BTW], the footage from Colorado and Utah are more clearly defined, and the Utah footage is even sharp enough to make out tail fins. I'm sticking with my blimp theory for now.

[edit on 3-9-2009 by draknoir2]

Originally posted by draknoir2
I'm sticking with my blimp theory for now.

Thanks for the feedback!

How does the blimp theory explain the transparency in the early part of the video, or the blobs darting around?

In the later part of the video, it does look more like a blimp, but in the early part of the clip it's too transparent to be a blimp.

re the blobs darting around... my impression was that of white birds in the foreground, unrelated to the object in question. That was my impression, but I'm not sure. As far as the transparent appearance... not sure either. Sometimes white objects record with a haze around them when not in perfect focus... maybe that's the deal there. Just a guess.

There are white commercial blimps about that shape flying now, in addition to unmarked Gub-mint surveillance airships being used for immigration/drug interdiction type purposes.

Edit: I like that "Fly-in" thing you did... on Google?

[edit on 3-9-2009 by draknoir2]

Originally posted by draknoir2
re the blobs darting around... my impression was that of white birds in the foreground, unrelated to the object in question.

Thanks for the reply. We are talking about 2 different blobs.

The objects darting around outside the object are probably bugs, in this post


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Genus_Unknown took a screen capture and even demonstrated the "rod-like" image formed by those objects. Could be birds I guess but more likely bugs, so we agree on those blobs darting around.

The other blobs darting around are INSIDE the transparent object!!!

Look at the first video in this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

From 21 seconds to 50 seconds, you will see white blobs darting around INSIDE the blimp shape. See them? They are different entirely from the bugs.

I'm not sure how the blimp theory would explain those but my theory explains it pretty well I think.

I say it is something like this!

reply to post by atrofi
That's a good example of what it looks like later in the video (except the fins) but I'll ask you the same question I asked draknoir2

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The other blobs darting around are INSIDE the transparent object!!!

Look at the first video in this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

From 21 seconds to 50 seconds, you will see white blobs darting around INSIDE the blimp shape. See them? They are different entirely from the bugs.

I'm not sure how the blimp theory would explain those but my theory explains it pretty well I think.

So how does the blimp theory explain the transparency as well as the blobs darting around inside the "object" from 21 seconds to 50 seconds in the video Internos posted?

The original video doesn't really show the initial part where it's so transparent you can tell it's not a real solid object, but the longer version posted by Internos DOES show that.

Those of you who think this is a blimp or any other type of solid object have other problems besides the transparency initially shown in the video (which by itself is enough to show it's not a solid object). Tim Edwards started watching the "object" before he started his recording, and he ALSO saw the same boomerang shape as the other witness as Dr Maccabee documented:

www.qtm.net...

On Sunday, August 27, 1995, at 9:30 AM Tim Edwards of Salida, Colorado, was a witness to a strange aerial object first observed by his young daughter. He described the initial appearance as a slightly arced pencil size object darting around..... approximately 20 degrees west of the sun. At times it appeared more triangular or boomerang shaped on top. As he watched it he realized it wasn't anything usual so he got his 8 mm videocamera with a 8 power zoom.

So BOTH witnesses saw a boomerang shape, and apparently by the time Tim Edwards got his camera, the shape had morphed into the transparent cigar with

lighted areas moving around on it

as seen between 21 and 50 seconds on the video posted by Internos.

So in addition to explaining the transparency, and the lighted areas moving around inside the transparent shape, you also have to explain the boomerang shape which was reported but not videotaped. I don't see how a blimp can explain even one of these much less all 3 facts. But my theory explains them all, so I suggest you read Dr Maccabees report and get all the facts, then see if you still think it could be a blimp. I'm pretty sure you'll conclude it's not a blimp.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by depthoffield

 

After reading Dr. Maccabee's report that the object was sighted at 121 azimuth approximately 20 degrees left of the sun...

Hi Arbitrageur,

Wait... wouldn't a mirage reflect something directly above or below, and not 20° to the right ? Maybe I don't understand the whole temperature inversion business. Atmospheric layers are horizontal, aren't they ?

I can't be a sundogs either, they look completely different, more like a vertical pillar, and not only 20° from the sun.

I'm sorry I missed this very interesting thread.

Originally posted by nablator

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by depthoffield

 

After reading Dr. Maccabee's report that the object was sighted at 121 azimuth approximately 20 degrees left of the sun...

Hi Arbitrageur,

Wait... wouldn't a mirage reflect something directly above or below, and not 20° to the right ? Maybe I don't understand the whole temperature inversion business. Atmospheric layers are horizontal, aren't they ?

Yes the layers are typically horizontal, but if the terrain is not level, thermals can result which might disturb the layers though as early in the morning as this sighting occurred I'd expect a minimal impact from any potential thermals. If there were any thermals they might give the reflective layer a little bit of a "V" shape with the bottom of the V at the bottom of the valley.

It's pretty simple really, for a reflection off a river or body of water, the angle of reflection matches the angle of incidence. So if the source of the reflection is DIRECTLY between the observer and the sun, then the reflection will appear either directly above or below the sun (if not lined up exactly), and will NOT be 20 degrees off. But what will happen of the source of the reflection is NOT directly between the observer and the sun (and it usually won't be, as it takes quite a coincidence to get a perfect alignment)? Then the reflection will NOT appear directly above nor directly below the sun, as the alignment necessary for that to occur is not present. That's how the image can be displaced 20 degrees. There is a limit to how far it can be displaced, obviously 90 degrees or more won't work, but I see no problem with 20 degrees.

In this case there was likely a direct reflection of the sun off the water in the river, then a secondary reflection of that reflection from a temperature inversion to the observer, called a "superior mirage" The reflection from the inversion will have some scattering making it visible from various angles, it's not a perfect mirror-like reflection. All the evidence in this case appears to support that conclusion.

Some references for you:

Here's an introduction to Mirages: mintaka.sdsu.edu...

Wiki has some info: en.wikipedia.org...

And a guide for people hunting for superior mirages: www.weatherscapes.com...

Originally posted by Camilo1
Hi

this UFO was filmed surronded by smaller quick-flying white drones...location USA



Cheerio

Some of you folks need to get your eyes checked! That's the Tim Edwards UFO, videotaped in Salida, Colorado, in 1995. Those are NOT drones, nor are they associated with the UFO. They're insects!

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


Well I think I speak for everyone when I say that I stand in awe at your ability to work in a reference to Tesla in every single post you have ever created. Your undying and unwavering tenacity and loyalty surely does not go unnoticed by the great one himself. If only there were a way to arrange a meeting for you two, hmmm

puz:

Now back to the topic. WTF was that thing? Do governments even bother offering explanations anymore? Do we not have a right to an answer as to what in the hell is going on in our skies?

[edit on 26-10-2009 by Jesus H Christ]

Im not buying the temperature inversion theory! The craft itself i would say is actually disc shaped, i know we dont see it disc shaped but threw the footage the craft looks to be rotating, look closely down its side and you will see this too.

Originally posted by GezinhoKiko
Im not buying the temperature inversion theory! The craft itself i would say is actually disc shaped, i know we dont see it disc shaped but threw the footage the craft looks to be rotating, look closely down its side and you will see this too.

If you think it's a disc shaped craft, how do you explain the boomerang shape when he first saw it, that the other witness also described? Or the fact that it's nearly transparent at first and then gets brighter?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
"It almost looks like we are looking through a transparent cloud or something...."

Yes it DOES as this capture from his video shows, the "object" is not solid at all but very transparent, early in the video:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2e4944e08074.png[/atsimg]

I think if it was a disc you wouldn't be able to see through it when it's transparent, and it also wouldn't change shape from a boomerang shape to a cigar shape.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Honestly, I think it looks fake...

Reason 1: If you measured the distance between the object and the edge of the house roof in the video, you can see how rapidly the distance changes through the video. It bounces around at insane speeds, and almost looks like it is linked in some way to the camera, or is blowing in the wind like a spiderweb catching a reflection. When I say "insane speeds" I'm talking about the speed it would have to be moving if it was actually 1000+ feet in the air. However, it is moving at normal speeds if it is only 15 feet or less away from the camera.

The speeds at which it is moving does not show signs of being high in the sky, nor does it show signs of being "gigantic". It actually is showing signs of being really close to the camera, and really small.

Reason 2: The roof seems to be slightly in focus, and the object also seems to be slightly in focus. If the object was actually high in the sky, the roof should have been really out of focus because it would be out of the depth of field. This tells me that the object is a lot closer to the roof, maybe even 15 feet or less away from the camera.

In another part of the video you can see the camera struggle to get the object in focus, this happens when the roof is not in the shot. IMO, the camera was set on auto focus and it's sensor was trying to judge the distance of the sky, and it failed like normal cameras, because it couldn't detect the object or the sky. This auto focus issue was fixed when the roof was introduced into the shot, and I believe that the roof was more in focus than the object, so it made the object look a tad bit thicker. However, both still seems to be slightly in focus, so I believe the object was closer to the roof, and not high in the sky.

I honestly think they were fooled by a spiderweb catching a reflection in the sun. Probably from spiders that glide in the wind while holding onto a single line of web to cross from place to place.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


What if it was a hazy day? Ive seen buildings in the distance look hazy due to the heat. That can distort things.

Here is an image of a spider web on a plant, and pictures of the "UFO" pasted on top for comparison.

The little girl in the video asks her dad, "how does the spaceship grow bigger like that?"... this could be explained as a spider web that is moving in the wind, and a larger length of the web is reflecting more light, making it appear to grow larger and smaller.

Parts of the video you can see the object "sparkling light", this is a common characteristic of a spider web reflecting light while moving. That picture of the object on the lower left is an example of that "sparkling" compared to a spider web that is also "sparkling".

[edit on 26-10-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I honestly think they were fooled by a spiderweb catching a reflection in the sun. Probably from spiders that glide in the wind while holding onto a single line of web to cross from place to place.

One problem with the spiderweb theory, is the other witness, Mike Maggio saw it from a different part of town than Tim Edwards did in his video. Both Edwards and Maggio describe a boomerang shape (which matches the shapes of the river bends, though the boomerang shape wasn't videotaped, that was gone by the time he started taping). And the size and distance estimate seems to match up reasonably well with my river reflection into a temperature inversion theory:

www.qtm.net...

Apparently the only other witness at a different location to clearly observe the UFO was Mike Maggio, an employee at the restaurant who saw that it close to the sun (according to Jennie Zeidman). Mike told Jenny he saw small objects the shape of a boomerang coming off the main object. Unfortunately he did not provide an accurate direction (elevation and azimuth). However, the fact that both he and Mr. Edwards saw the object near the sun suggests the UFO was quite far away, as will now be demonstrated.

At 9:30 AM MDT the location of the sun (at Denver, not too far from Salida) was about 107 degrees azimuth by about 35 degrees elevation. An hour later the sun was at 121 azimuth and 45 elevation (from Xpert Astronomer; Xpert Software, Coral Gables, FL 33134). Mr. Edwards told Jennie Zeidman that the UFO was generally in the lower left quadrant relative to the sun (6 oclock to 9 oclock) and at varying angular distances. This direction to the sun at 10:30 AM combined with the appearance of the lens flares indicate that at the end of the video the camera was pointed at 121 azimuth and an elevation between 35 and 42 degrees.

Since both witnesses (Edward, Maggio) were looking roughly east southeast, and because the restaurant is about 2.5 miles east southeast of the Mr. Edwards location, the UFO must have been at a minimum of 2.5 miles east southeast of Mr. Edwards, and probably several, perhaps many, miles beyond that, but just how many miles further is not known. This extremely crude triangulation sets a minimum size for the UFO. Here I assume that Mr. Maggio saw the UFO at a time corresponding roughly to the middle of the video footage rather than at the very beginning so that the triangulation estimate is based on the angular size in the middle of the video, i.e., about 0.013 rad by 0.001 rad. At a distance of 3 miles this corresponds to about 200 feet long by 16 feet high.

Actually the relative movement of the light with respect to the roof is a little odd but it's possible that could be an artifact of having the camera's digital image stabilization turned on? An optical image stabilizer like those found in professional cameras wouldn't do that, but the digital image stabilization technology could stabilize the dark roof at a different rate than the bright light, at least, it's a possibility.

Also in the 2nd video Internos posted the researcher thought it could be a weather related phenomenon, I think he's right, as a temperature inversion is related to atmospheric conditions.

[edit on 26-10-2009 by Arbitrageur]

The UFO I saw was a cigar shaped very similar to the video. I created the image below in photoshop.



I dismiss blimps or regular aircraft because the object disappeared into light clouds.

The mirage theory is interesting. Although I believe I saw a 3-D craft with defined edges I still wanted to rule out a mirage. On google maps, I see residential pools, but not a large body of water below the location of the ufo.

The nearest body of water is a 1200 foot lake about 1.5 miles southwest from the object. I don't know much about mirages, but here's more info:

Facing west, I saw the object about a mile ahead at my 1 o'clock
over a small ridge known as Topanga Cyn (later I found a book chronicling ufo activity here, the theory was for the quartz content in the mountains/ caves and relative seclusion in a high population area).

The lake mentioned above would have been at my 10 o'clock about 2.5 miles away.

The time was about 9:45 am so the sun was slightly behind me.

Just curious what some of you might think.


[edit on 26-10-2009 by oneangrymonk]