Thermobarics Revisited

Were thermobarics used to bring down the towers?

Thermobarics are renowned for their ability to demolish buildings, an effect of the prolonged overpressure produced by the blast. One brochure for the thermobaric SMAW-NE rocket bore the title 'thermobaric urban destruction' -- and showed what the warhead could do against buildings. In 2002, at Fort Leonard Wood, there was a demonstration of thermobaric infantry weapons with the title Bring Down The House.

blog.wired.com...

Thermobaric warheads put the power to demolish buildings into the hands of the average U.S. marine. But Americans aren’t the only ones with the weapons. The Chinese, the Russians -- even guerilla groups -- now have thermobarics' shockingly destructive power in their grasps.

www.defensetech.org...

However, there may be some legal challenge to weapons such as hand-held thermobaric devices which can easily demolish multi-storey buildings.

blog.wired.com...

For videos of what these devices can do, google them. I've been trying to find something similar to the towers (as in a video of a thermobaric destroying a building) but have come up short so far.

Does anyone know what kind of signature (if any) a thermobaric would leave behind?

Since a thermobaric bomb is sometimes called a "vacuum bomb" because of the vacuum effect it has, would this vacuum effect cause a significant decrease in sound? Since sound will not travel through a vacuum. Or am I off track here?

Is this along the same lines of the Chechen-type building-buster bomb or the Vulcan bomb ?

I'm not sure. But, they were invented by the Russians some 20 years ago I believe.

Notice the similarities in sound.

video.aol.com...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Griff
Notice the similarities in sound.

www.youtube.com...

With regards to your second link Griff you must watch this:


A much closer match i believe. Shape charge (thermite based i think).

BTW i think these are shape charges going off in 7? I thought it was most likely 7.

Good call Insolubrious. I guess we really can't tell by sound.

If that was a thermite shape charge, I wish they would show what the steel looks like afterward. Or even do one on a column similar to the one shown in the famous firefighter photo with the angled "cut" column. And compare.

Also, we really don't know when that video was recorded. Do we? It could be after 2 fell but before 1. Or any of the explosions going off inbetween.

As I've said. This is just a working hypothesis and open for discussion.

I still can't find a video of a thermobaric destroying a building though. It is stated many times that they do destroy buildings anywhere they are mentioned, but yet, no video so far? Of course, I'm just paranoid anyway.

I am just saying that particular explosion in that exact video sounds very much like the shape charge. Admittedly audio signatures probably aren't the most revealing nature of the blast but can probably go along way to determining what type of quantity were used against duration, amplitude and frequency/harmonic content. However I would certainly not rule out looking at the usage of these 'building buster' type bombs and what they are capable of doing. Infact I wouldn't doubt or be at all surprised if they used a range of different explosives and incendiary devices to reduce the buildings to fine powder...

Shape charges can be very effective at slicing up steel as seen in this vid.


The concept of the shape charge can also be adapted, i think its even possible to make a nuclear shape charge which essentally is a focused or directed blast. Ramzi Yousef allegedly talked about making directional nitrate bombs that had added 'powdered metals' too that also go along way to increase the bombs effect. I am not sure what would happen but at a guess, given enough powdered metals grounded finely enough would be extremely destructive if they were ignited creating a very thick shower of thermite as a secondary effect. It would be like a hybrid directional nitrate/thermite bomb and very nasty. Still not sure that would do the job though, but if indeed that type of device was detonated in 93 and made that huge crater in the wtc basement.. Well they probably worked out how much more explosives they would need to finish the job.



[edit on 23-4-2008 by Insolubrious]

If that was a thermite shape charge, I wish they would show what the steel looks like afterward. Or even do one on a column similar to the one shown in the famous firefighter photo with the angled "cut" column. And compare.

Problem is no such thing as THERMITE SHAPED CHARGE! Thermite
is welding/incendiary agent - it produces intense heat for short period
of time. Shaped charges are explosives in cone with metallic (copper)
liner - this configuration focus blast wave to a point where hot gases
and molten metallic fragments are focused to a point which burns
through materials.

As for "angle cut steel" cited by kook fringe - it was result of steel being
cut by torch as part of cleanup process.

Here is series of pictures from Dec 2001 (3 months after 9/11) showing
iron workers cutting away steel columns for removal.

home.hiwaay.net...

The concept of the shape charge can also be adapted, i think its even possible to make a nuclear shape charge which essentally is a focused or directed blast. Ramzi Yousef allegedly talked about making directional nitrate bombs that had added 'powdered metals' too that also go along way to increase the bombs effect. I am not sure what would happen but at a guess, given enough powdered metals grounded finely enough would be extremely destructive if they were ignited creating a very thick shower of thermite as a secondary effect. It would be like a hybrid directional nitrate/thermite bomb and very nasty. Still not sure that would do the job though, but if indeed that type of device was detonated in 93 and made that huge crater in the wtc basement.. Well they probably worked out how much more explosives they would need to finish the job.

Aluminium powder has been added to explosives for about 100 years
to increase blast effect - powdered aluminium burns producing intense
heat which enhances the blast. This is not thermite - get this out of
your Edit skulls! Thermite is powdered aluminium and iron oxides
which produces intense heat and liquid iron - used as welding agent for
large objects. It is not used to demolish buildings - only effect of
thermite on structure would be to set combustible materials on fire.



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[edit on 23/4/2008 by Sauron]

Originally posted by Insolubrious


A much closer match i believe. Shape charge (thermite based i think).

no not thermite, its an aluminium lined linear shaped charge cutting into steel plate. CH3NO2/HNO3 explosive.

reply to post by thedman


hmm.. Well I guess were not getting anywhere with that one. Do you really think it was some type of nitrate bomb they set off in 93 that caused that massive crater?


[edit on 23-4-2008 by Insolubrious]

Pretty please, use the SEARCH feature of this board.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Read my extensive explanations how thermobarics work on that page, and that they leave NO usual explosive's after-effects footprint whatsoever, because of the gaseous nature of the exploding device.
It will leave just some vague burn signatures, easily explained away as normal building fire effects.
Its the device of choice for secret agencies, terrorists and special forces.

Do not get fooled by the corrupt world media explaining road side bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan away as improvised artillery rounds.
These are shape charged thermobarics, and that's why they are so effective in crunching heavy armoured vehicles made from thick STEEL.

The same thick steel used in the columns and beams of the three WTC buildings.

If you use these Search terms :
LaBTop thermobaric
LaBTop Riconosciuto
You will find a lot of my thermobaric posts and one Thermobaric thread by me in the Explosives forum.

This following video shows how the Russian army demolishes a huge concrete structure, which leaves very fine dust behind, and a few chunks of reinforced concrete :

www.youtube.com...

This is my post with all the videos explaining how thermobarics work :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Watch the first video posted there, and do listen carefully what the narrator explains, he first explains how a Fuel-Air explosive works (which is NOT a thermobaric), then he proceeds to the effects of a real thermobaric, pay attention to precisely what he says then.
Then re-read what I explained in all my posts at page 3 of this thread, beginning with this one, then follow all the rest of my explanations in my follow-up posts :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by thedman

As for "angle cut steel" cited by kook fringe - it was result of steel being
cut by torch as part of cleanup process.

Here is series of pictures from Dec 2001 (3 months after 9/11) showing
iron workers cutting away steel columns for removal.

home.hiwaay.net...

Thanks for these photos. Two things I noticed about the cut columns in these photos.

1. You can tell they are hand cut because none of them have the smooth clean "slice" of the famous picture.

2. None of them have the slag running down on both inside and outside of the column.

Now, I'm still up in the air on that photo but, really look at this evidence and show me any of those cut columns where they look like the famous one. Thanks.

Originally posted by LaBTop
Pretty please, use the SEARCH feature of this board.

First, thanks for posting the links to your threads. I read one of them but wasn't aware of more. I do need to use the search button more here.

Second, this is why I say "revisited". I started this thread to get some video of buildings being blown with these.

I'll read through your threads. Thanks again.