Should the Olympics be held only in Democratic countries?

I am wondering with all this trouble with Tibet, it's not the only place where human rights seem violated. I imagine they would not allow the Olympics in the Middle East, imagine thier offence of seeing a woman swimming.

If countries can not hold onto to the overall differences in people's diversity, should we really promote it to them in the name of sport or should we wait till they socially change and keep out of their yard?
I don't think the Chinese people are that bothered or offended as they are a major force in Olympic sport. Their country as a system is a problem where human and Animal rights is quite below par compared to Democratic nations. If as a nation they are not global enough to accept freedom of expression like religious tollerance and diversity of free speech should the rest of the world stop these nations hosting a sport that promotes unity and diversity when they them selves can not call that same reflection as a nation?

I think a case could be made for such a notion, very easily.

We keep hearing out they want to keep the "politics" out of it and emphasize that it is amateur sport being competed at its highest level. But that is a lame cop out because anything and everything about this event is completely political. Incumbents of winning countries rejoice every time it is their country selected. Why? Because it is a political victory.

I would support a blanket rule that the games are restricted to countries ruled by a democratic governing body.

reply to post by The time lord

a sport that promotes unity and diversity when they themselves can not call that same reflection as a nation?

Nice thread. I agree although it depends on where in the middle east you held the Olympics. I think Dubai UAE is a bit more liberal than other areas. Have you seen the sports complex they're building there?

Here's a thought.

If the games were only held in democratic countries, would they be even more corrupt than they already are.

How long would it be before the tree huggers put a stop to professional sportsmen and women taking part? Stopping Judo and TKD because little jimmy might be encouraged to Kata Nage someone and then finish with an axe kick? Archery and pistol shooting that would be a no-no as well.

If someone says you can't be involved in something which are you more likely to do: improve yourself so you can join in next time or flip them the bird with a big "yeah whatever beoch".

MonKey

Originally posted by chissler
We keep hearing out they want to keep the "politics" out of it ...But that is a lame cop out because anything and everything about this event is completely political.

I completely agree.

But we can't have the olympics only in democratic countries. If we did - then who would decide which countries are REALLY democratic? And then those that were left out would start their own olympics. And then ya'll just know that the commmittee of the democratic group would get together and say that such and such a country wasn't 'behaving' properly .. etc etc etc

I agree that a blanket rule probably isn't going to resolve the issue at hand, but I do believe that conceding that this is completely political would entice the governing body over the Olympics to be a little more selective when choosing locations in the future.

China has been gradually moving toward a free market for about a generation now. We have trade agreements with China, which go a long way toward mainstreaming China.

China still has a long way to go, but they are changing. That is why I always considered the Soviet Union to be much more of a threat to the free world than China.

Free markets and Communism are like water and vinegar and the more the free market flourishes the less sense that Communism is going to make in the hearts of the people.

Tibet has been under China's rule for what, fifty years?

Did the Tibetans have to choose the Olympics as their target against China?

Did they have to make the torch bearing ceremony a battleground in almost every country it took place in?

I don't think that any nation should boycott the Olympics. I think that the world leaders converging on China with a message of hope and cooperation is a far better agenda.

[edit on 2008/4/15 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't think that any nation should boycott the Olympics. I think that the world leaders converging on China with a message of hope and cooperation is a far better agenda.

Starred!

MonKey

okay would Iran for example be considered for the Olympics for example?
I mean they already complained about an event that showed some woman flesh and it caused problems. At the end of the day some countries them selves know they can not hold the Olympics because they them selves would not put them forward and the orgainisers can not do much about it.

So to be in the Olympics as the Greeks who did theirs naked you have to accept a democratic understanding and if countries have a social revolution to be part of a world sport that accept women swimmers and to have women take part if that. That concern then should be as a changing nation first if not they them selves will have to train abroad and represent another country if it came to that passion for the sport as individuals who would like to take part. Will some countries even show synchronised women swimmers on TV or even Ice skating?

At the end of the day its down to this, the countries who want to host these events must accept all forms of diversity otherwise they probably not be ready anyway as a country to even if they wanted to.

i could bve wrong here, and probably am...

but weren't the first Olympics held by the Greeks, the originators of democracy? It only fair to uphold that as well - even if it was not intended to be part of the tradition.

I think that it will just split the committee and create two Olympic clubs. Why China/Iran/..... should not host the games if Nazi Germany and USSR hosted those? It is just a money making/political enterprise. Probably just as it was in the ancient Greece. Sparta and several other Greek states were not Democratic ,even anti-democratic. Was never a problem.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
I think that it will just split the committee and create two Olympic clubs. Why China/Iran/..... should not host the games if Nazi Germany and USSR hosted those? It is just a money making/political enterprise. Probably just as it was in the ancient Greece. Sparta and several other Greek states were not Democratic ,even anti-democratic. Was never a problem.

The Nazis did not have a problem with nudity they stripped enough Jews and opposers of that movement and put them naked in concentration camps. The difference with some countries are that Nudity and women rights don't mix.

reply to post by The time lord


If i was a little more naive i would say "Hey,so maybe the games will promote women rights in those places". However it will probably not change a thing. Still, all dictatorships have problems with civil liberties and human rights and in the last century it was never a problem for organizers. If country wants to hold the games and its plans (or more important - political pressure) win, so be it. It is not about fairness , justice or human/animal/aliens/whatever rights. Money and power. Making oppressive regimes "suffer" without those games now will just create a different competition with all those banned participants. What will it achieve?
And as far as i recall women rights in majority states of ancient Greece were not that great too. Not talking about slaves and other stuff.

I am of the opinion that the Olympic Games should be held in Greece permanently. That's where the Games started.
All countries participating in the Olympic Games should then make contributions to the upkeep of the arenas/venues, it would save billions of dollars
etc.. Look at the sheer waste of money being laid out for the London fiasco in 2012.

If other countries want to make their own sport events without certain types of people then I don't think the world sports people would be that interested anyway. Its like not many Westerners move to the Middle East or Asia as much as those countries migrate to ours for those very reasons, although some do.

Olympics is one sport event that involves many events, there are world cup events too and other tournements and if they wanted this taken place in their countries and can afford it then they will demand such events to take place, so my guess its down to countries who do want change.

You know how the Nazis saw black people as inferior and the black sportsmen proved them wrong as Jesse Owen did.

By 1936, the Nazis had control over Germany and had already begun to implement their racist policies. There was international debate as to whether the 1936 Olympics in Nazi Germany should be boycotted. The United States was extremely close to boycotting but at the last minute decided to accept the invitation to attend.

history1900s.about.com...

But politics does effect sport and you know about this event:

The Munich massacre occurred during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, West Germany, when members of the Israeli Olympic team were taken hostage by Black September, a group with ties to Yasser Arafat’s Fatah organization.

By the end of the ordeal, the terrorist group had killed eleven Israeli athletes and coaches and one German police officer. Five of the eight terrorists were killed by police officers during an abortive rescue attempt. The three surviving terrorists were captured, and were later released by West Germany following the hijacking of a Lufthansa airliner, a release that has led to speculation that West Germany had helped stage the Lufthansa hijacking.[3][4]

en.wikipedia.org...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

[edit on 12-5-2008 by The time lord]

[edit on 12-5-2008 by The time lord]

IMO, politics & sports should never be mixed together. For that matter, the USA shouldn't even allow politics within the government either. If politics is the "Art of Compromise," then there would be no room for it in the Constitutional Republic of America, which strongly forbids any compromise of the Constitution itself.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

I don't think that any nation should boycott the Olympics. I think that the world leaders converging on China with a message of hope and cooperation is a far better agenda.

[edit on 2008/4/15 by GradyPhilpott]

Of course it isn't up to any particular nation to boycott the olympics - if America or even the U.K were to do it there'd be a damn outcry about it because it would infringe on our freedoms.

It's down to the athletes themselves as to whether or not they will be competing, and no one but they can truly have a credible reason on whether or not they should be held.

As such, now might be a good time to bring up the point that there is a difference between competing for the sake of competing, and competing in an international event out of the simple pride of it.

Obviously, if an individual feels that standards have not been met by the host organisation or group, then that individual is free to complain, certainly - but he naturally does not have the power to stop the games all by himself.

If the free-tibet protestors were to bid athletes boycott the games, then they might be on to something, but otherwise i find it rather peculiar they would attempt to do something as foolish as interrupting the games themselves.

On a final note, out of amusement; i was wondering what the chances are that the 'attacks' on the olympic torch's progress were actually scaled-down false flag attacks, in order for china to gain a reputation for being intolerant of civil disobediance...

[edit on 12-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

The Olympics were created as a way for every country to get together despite their differences for the fun of the games.

With all the available avenues for protest available to people, I don't think corrupting the Olympics with hate and/or political bias will really help any more than anything else.

I think we should leave the politics and religious differences out of the Olympics and keep them as what they were intended to bt, not have them turned into yet another way to tell us all how we should feel about something.

Originally posted by chissler
I think a case could be made for such a notion, very easily.

We keep hearing out they want to keep the "politics" out of it and emphasize that it is amateur sport being competed at its highest level. But that is a lame cop out because anything and everything about this event is completely political. Incumbents of winning countries rejoice every time it is their country selected. Why? Because it is a political victory.

I would support a blanket rule that the games are restricted to countries ruled by a democratic governing body.

Using your reasoning, its a political victory that that the Red Wings Beat my Avs in the playoffs because people were chanting "Detroit" at the games and not "Red Wings". The pride a country( or state) has in its athletes is different than the feelings of pride they have about heir political beliefs. It feels nice to an athlete to bring that kind of pride to their country.

When you bring politics into the Olympics, you get things like hostage taking, murders and bombings(see above posts).

[edit on 13-5-2008 by Tiloke]

Is there a true democracy on this planet?

I do not think so...not anymore.

The ethos of the Olympic Games has been corrupted by the modern era.

Every country that has ever held the Olympics is guilty of murder, war crimes, racism and exploitation.


Just my mad thoughts

take care all
res

No It should have it's own island nation of Olympus.
The establishment of the nation of Olympus should be funded by donations from every nation, and athletes world wide. There should be no system of laws beyond this one. Do no harm. Those who do harm are simply thrown into a fiery volcano by those around them. The fire can be supplied by propane tanks as needed, if there is no activity in the volcano. Like every other activity in Olympus, it is televised, as is the crime of doing harm.

There should be an Olympics every year, and politics should not play any role. The Olympics should last all year, every year. A suitable location like the Island of Maui with it's snow capped volcano should be selected.
Anyone should be welcome there as long as they are treated equally to everyone else there, except of course the Olympians, who are idealized, and treated like kings for their 1 year of honor.

Royalties from the Olympics will fund everything, which is basically just the continuation of the Olympics. Being the sole concern of Olympus.
The world's greatest tourist trap!