Everything Should Be Free!

Originally posted by Enrikez
reply to post by skyshow

 

Besides, I'm totally about iron fisted control and slavery. If you want freedom, you have to give up security. If you want stability you have to give up freedom. It's your personal choice, but I'll fight you to the death over it.

You say we have to give up freedom for stability and in order to have freedom we need to give up security... This isn't reality... If you can secure yourself you have security... What is security anyway? Do you feel secure at any time? Do you need a government regulating you? Determining your reality?

Forget that, you can stay in your bubble of deception if you want, I'm not sticking around just to be enslaved... I'll be in the forest living like man vs. wild working with others to develop a new FREE system... Like what everyone is brainstorming here in this thread...

I understand you might not agree, but at least have an open mind... Haven't you ever heard that saying, anything you can think of can be true or anything you put your mind to can be done... Time to knock down the walls closing your mind... Time to wake up and realize, we don't need this crap anymore...

Originally posted by Obsurion
I love the idea, but the transition to such a state would not be smooth. Probably would require some form of regulation on the quantity of items being used and Enforcement of that rule. for ex. if a nation became completely independent and non-reliant on imports, they could scrap their dollar and issue a new system. Without regulation on certain service use that country would probably collapse or be forced to rations.

I agree the transition would not be smooth at all... There will probably be a few groups of people when the proverbial ***t hits the fan... You'll have the system aka NWO, you'll have looters and those who won't know what to do except raid all the stores and probably the homes of those who have storage... Then you'll have those who go out into the land and live off of it... Chances are the looters will either join the NWO to maintain their mindless lifestyles or they will die due to lack of food and the inability to find and/or harvest food on their own... Eventually it will be dwindled down to 2 groups... Those who survive will gradually begin to come together... When this happens we can start thinking about this idea more realistically...

for such a system to maintain, the education system, manfacturing methods, energy and food networks would all have to be in good condition and surplus. Most countries in the world could not pull this off, but i'm sure that a small wealthy european country could do this successfully in a controled experiment. To bad scientists, leaders (and other knowledgeable field experts) don't have the balls to do this.

Everything will crash before it restarts again... As long as everyone understands the possibility of this collapse and the hardships it will bring then maybe we can focus on what can be after the fact... A new world without all the negative influences of today.. Where people can trust one another again... Where people are actually willing to help someone out...

I've thought about this exact idea a few months ago. If a contained city was redesigned to be 90%+ self-sufficient with materials and energy usage, then that community would not need the current monetary system.

This would definitely be the focus...

It's definitely possible without free energy being availible. unfortunately you have a long wait before such an ambitious project and large step foward ever sees the light of day.

I think we could figure out how to provide free energy...

I don't think most people get the picture. This is not a material issue. It's not a cause-effect issue. It's not an issue for our future, either.... because where the Hell is the future? We've been waiting so very long for the future, but I'm pretty sure if it came, we missed it. Either that, or the future is not real.

What is money? Money is security for the future. ALL FAKE!!! A fake system based on a supremely retarded and mythological view of space-time.

This is a spiritual issue. What does your spirit say about money? Does your spirit want to toil all day in order to earn "Good Citizen of Earth" points, and to have just barely enough to get by? Or does your spirit just want to be?

Which leads me towards another question:

Is intelligence a curse of humans? Is this why we've fallen out of step with nature? Because we question it, and therefore view it as something external, something we oppose. Is this why natural life sustainment has been replaced by manmade life sustainment? Because we secretly resent nature's ways of teaching us, and it's easier to just get something, as opposed to learning how to get it?

If we were truly one with nature, I don't think we could have our way of consciousness. Having free will MEANS diverting from nature's steady constant flow of change...

So... it's also a philosophical issue... Is mass human symbiosis with nature possible? Or do to many people wanna go in too many directions?

Perhaps without something to order our thoughts, we'd be "stupid" just like the rest of the animal kingdom...

I don't know fully, but there's gotta be a much better way of going about a similar system.

Originally posted by indierockalien
Which leads me towards another question:

Is intelligence a curse of humans? Is this why we've fallen out of step with nature? Because we question it, and therefore view it as something external, something we oppose. Is this why natural life sustainment has been replaced by manmade life sustainment? Because we secretly resent nature's ways of teaching us, and it's easier to just get something, as opposed to learning how to get it?

No we've fallen out of step with nature because we live in a system that provides a false security... A system the says, you don't need nature because we provide everything for you... I don't think we oppose nature, it's just that most have grown more accustom to the current system, some have not even experienced nature... How can you live with nature if you know nothing of it... Intelligence is not a curse, it's our gift, it's what puts us on top of the food chain... But I guess you could consider it as a curse as well, with the development of all the technologies which harm our world... As far as nature teaching us, it will... And it will most likely be a huge lesson... The more unstable the world becomes the more the planet will have to do to correct itself... The more unstable the larger the storms, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornado's you name it...

If we were truly one with nature, I don't think we could have our way of consciousness. Having free will MEANS diverting from nature's steady constant flow of change...

The Native Americans are just as smart as any other man and they lived with nature forever, until we came along and basically stole the land and began mass production... What we should have done is learned to live with the Native Americans and listened to their teachings about mother earth... Just because we had rifles and they only had bows and arrows and what not doesn't make them less smart... In fact all the weapons they used they made from materials given to them from the Earth... So all in all they might have been a lot smarter than the first white folk to set foot in America... Also humans are able to adapt... We have for millions of years... There's no diversion just adaptation...

Perhaps without something to order our thoughts, we'd be "stupid" just like the rest of the animal kingdom...

I really don't think so... I don't think anyone is stupid... Everyone is smarter than someone else in something... So all in all everyone is stupid... We don't need anything ordering our thoughts either... You order your thoughts whether they are influenced by something or not... It's ultimately up to you to make a decision... It's up to you to take action... I suppose this would all depend on the situation...

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


Ive started many threads on currency. As Ive stated before, money is probably a human idea only. I doubt advances alien cultures even have a word in their language for money.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and another thread here that I started on the same subject...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by admriker444
reply to post by ElectricUncleSam

 

Ive started many threads on currency. As Ive stated before, money is probably a human idea only. I doubt advances alien cultures even have a word in their language for money.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and another thread here that I started on the same subject...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks for the post and linking up more threads on this... I also believe it's just an idea... Something we don't need... Everyone is so intertwined with the system and money it's hard for them to imagine a world without it... Very interesting and hopefully something we can work together on to find better ways of doing things... Because we may not have much time left and it's definitely good to have some sort of idea or plan than none at all...

This is a good video, has some information pertaining to choice and freedom... Which this thread has a lot to do with..

The People of the Interior

The people of the interior were very free with showing me around, very articulate in showing you what is exactly going on - they do not hold anything back.

They always ask permission when working with nature, they ask the plants for permission before consuming them or cutting them down, they ask the Mother Earth before they build on it, and do so build with the lay of the land which best suits their environment, a practice similar to the American Indians; therefore seeking to preserve a harmonious state at all times; wanting to be one with nature at all times; they are more spiritually advanced than surface dwellers and greatly respect Mother Earth.

The atmosphere is crystal clear, as a rule there are times clouds, but nothing like rain clouds.

The temperature is a constant 73 degrees.

The people in the interior speak directly with the animals, and the animals speak directly to the people of the interior.

There is no need for hoarding for everything is free, no need to create in abundance as everything is ample. A process of bartering is more common than trade in money.

This is basically a utopian culture with no depression leading into violence. No parties seeking to make war and gain dominance over each other. There are none richer nor poorer.

Full Thread

See, if they can do it on the interior of the earth we can on the exterior... It's so simple to live free like this describes... It's a very simple description for a very simple way of life... As it should be... Even if these people don't exist and lets say the Earth isn't hollow, it's still a great idea and basically what I've been talking about the whole time... What we've all be talking about actually...

Everything for free....so who decides what part if any I have in producing things/services that are needed? Demand and supply... So I provide X, how many X do I need to produce to get Y? Back to bartering are we?

Everything is about value. And money is a way of valueing things and is also "condensed" wealth that can be used at any time.

The question imo is about freedom, not money. I strive to have as much freedom as possible which means that I only work 3 days. I do not have a car, don't go abroad on vacation and so on. I live in a very small rented place. In the mean while I also strive at getting the highest salary while doing work that I actually like and value.

My selfworth does not come from competing with the Jones but is something inside me that grows stronger the more freedom I have.

People react sometimes amazed. What only 3 days? Indeed my friend!
What, you have two jobs then? No, just the one.

This life makes me very happy.

reply to post by QueenofWeird


Yeah, if people sold their expensive (payments, depreciation, wear & tear, gas, oil, tune ups, insurance payments, tickets, tires etc...) automobiles, and then lived within their means and converted to LED & CFL light bulbs, used solar and wind and grew their own food, they wouldn't need to work near as much.

It's amazing when you look around at others, or self, and assess how much work is done just to stay on the grid and compete with others trying to do the same? I just scratch my head on the half of your annual income thing going into cars and other showeyness... One can easily save trips (use the car only when absolutely necessary), walk most times or ride the bus or just stay around home. There really is not need to burn so much gas and put your pay check in the damned gas tank just to look good going down the roadway or pulling in the parking lot at work...or maybe it's they think learning the bus schedule is too "inconvenient"? I wonder at what price per gallon their minds will change? Yesterday, a news article forcasted gas this time next year to be nearly $10.00 per US gallon!!! Those are some pretty expensive habbits. Me, I prefere an all natural cigarrette and a good glas of red wine out on the porch, but that's just me.



[edit on 29-4-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by QueenofWeird


Yes everything does have value, but value is not what should be most important... Just imagine if the current system disappeared and you had to fend for yourself... What would you do...? Hoard and try to barter based off of value?

To update this thread, since nobody else seems to have any other ideas, no offense to those who have contributed!

Here is a great video, the topics of the video stray and cover a lot of theory and some subject matter that might be considered 'made up', but like I always say, read between the lines, throw the garbage away... There is truth in this and it's said so well... I watched the most of it because I'm getting ready to leave, but this person doesn't seem like he is trying to hide anything or make anything up... To make up such a huge story and in the manner he is, I'd bet he would pass a lie detector... Another ATS'r passed this video onto me through another post of mine... Enjoy... Has some great ideas which will help open your mind and enlighten you to the idea of a "FREE" society...


Alex Collier, don't care really what your opinion is of him, hats off...

Google Video Link

reply to post by skyshow


I think you brought up a good point... You mentioned how others compete against each other to produce the same product... Wouldn't have to be like that anymore, we'd be more productive working together instead of competeing for money... When we needed something we would organize ways to put it together... Projects would just come together and people will be willing to do this... Not back to barter, back to survival of the fitest and strongest... Those willing to lead and work to survive and advance will survive, those that don't, won't...

Problem - Reaction - Solution in reverse.

I think john Lennon wrote a song about this....
I wonder if you can?

Originally posted by indierockalien
I'd like to add this:

With money and the likes, we're always focusing all our attention towards building a better future. Building a better future. Building a better future. Bah bah bah bah bah future. It's all we EVER hear. Because the future is never here, anyways. It never will be here. It will always be now. You earn money for a future that will never come. You struggle in order to be happy in a spacetime that DOESN'T EXIST!
We've never stopped as a society and said "How about we build a better now?"


the future.... rediculous.

Well if people didn't plan for future events, things like retirement or tools we will need when we see things changing like a hurricane coming we have tools to warn us that a future we need to survive is eminent.

The fact is, how well we are living in the present moment is detrmined by a large degree how well we invested or planned for a future now know is the past the very moment we live in it. We can only learn from the past and plan for the future. Living in the now is what learning the lessons of history and planning for the future is all about.

We've never stopped as a society and said "How about we build a better now?"

Learning the lessons of history or the past and using those lessons to plan for the future is what building a better "Now" surviving and living well in the moment is all about.

It's pretty academic

- Con







[edit on 24-7-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by indierockalien
I don't think most people get the picture. This is not a material issue. It's not a cause-effect issue. It's not an issue for our future, either.... because where the Hell is the future? We've been waiting so very long for the future, but I'm pretty sure if it came, we missed it. Either that, or the future is not real.

Oh but it IS about the future, read my above post.

I'm sure you'll agree

- Con

You are 160 years too late with your theory. Have you just finished studying the Communist Manifesto, or something? Sounds like you and Karl Marx would get along great.