Everything Should Be Free!

Originally posted by AllSeeingI
Not everyone can drive a Lamborghini and eat filet mignon. But everyone should be fed, housed, and clothed.

You are right, but more than likely society would regress into a more simpler state of survival than a luxurious pent house and room service type life... People would have to learn to provide for themselves or join small already established communities...

If there was NO money. No one would work. No one would do the dirty jobs: sanitation, garbage, hard labor etc.

Sure they would... Are you saying you wouldn't clean up your filth? If everyone took care of their own mess there would be no need for these types of jobs... The only reason we have sewage and such things is because we want toilets... If you take a, yoo hoo, in the woods it will dry up and become dirt in a week... The reason why we have to the water systems of today is because we are pumping all the waste into one spot... Learn to yoo hoo in the woods in other words...

Forget luxury life, think more along the lines of make your own clothes life... Hunt and grow your own food life... Walk not drive a Bugatti life.. Think Amish life more or less... Think backpacker and camping all the time life... Think Man vs. Wild type life... It's that or the NWO... Which do you want?

Originally posted by Knights
Where would this free land come from? If I had worked my entire life for a piece of land only for a big swap around and land to be given away for free i'd be annoyed to say the least. Who would pay for the cattle? Someone out there would have invested a lot of money in raising the cattle only for them to be given away.

I'd say anyone who owns land should be able to keep it and use it for the benefit of the one who owns the land and if so chooses those who could also use the land as well... I'm sure some arrangement between you and the people could be made... Or you can choose to keep everyone off possibly opening up yourself to all the undoubtebly angry people who will simply try to steal it... It's help and be helped or the opposite...

Cattle and livestock in general along with crops should also remain the property of the original owner(s)... Again Help and be helped, barter etc. Those who have large ranches and farms could organize towns around their large crop... Allowing people to work for cattle and seeds... This would allow others to go out and start their own settlements... Of course the owners would have to be willing to do this for others... My opinion would be best to get as much help as you can because your feed will run out and everything might die if you can't create your own feed real fast... Ultimately though, up to the owner to divide his crop as he sees fit... Only fair right.. ?

What would there be to study? What would be the point? Training yourself up and investing in yourself only to what? Give your new found knowledge away for free? Sorry but I think it would inspire lazyness, people would have no real need to further their educations.

You could study everything if you wanted to..! The point would be to better yourself to ensure your survival and you could also choose to use it to help others... That's not such a bad thing is it? If someone falls to the floor in a movie theatre caused by a heart attack and a doctor is there, would he not be obligated to help, but even more so would he have such a cold heart that he would simply deny the help? Most people will help others in need if they can... If the doctor had a choice, in my opinion I'd say he would choose to help the person... You could be right, some people may loose hope because they are unable to cope with the situation of the world... That's ok... The lazy will soon find out that other urges will drive them to do something.. Like hunger and thirst for starts... Just consider what people will do for crack or any other drug when they are addicted... People who choose to live will choose to maintain their own self worth and survival... You can't do this by being lazy...

No we don't and I don't see why technology companies should change? I suppose I could argue that what your sitting on right now has furthered mankind, this technology could and can only improve and yet we will throw this all away?

Good point and no, I don't think we need to throw anything away... I think we just need to find another way to do it... I'm sure there would be people willing to maintain technology along with all the other fields of research along with everything else... However, chances are we will be divided and spread out... Forced to maintain a simpler life due to the NWO and it's oppression... Most of us will be living off the land and constantly on the move... It's when the NWO is either defeated or put out of commission that we could really focus on a new system, one of true freedom...

It's hard for me to describe what I visualize, to me it makes perfect sense, but is hard to put into words sometimes... This thread is just the beginning discussion on what the possibilities of a truly free world can be... There are governments and leaders holding back our true potential to live in harmony with our planet and ourselves... It's ingrained in our brains that we have to use the system they developed and that there is no other way... And that system is all the negative things you can think of... Powered by the media and our government officials...

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


I disagree. Ownership of land and cattle etc...we are nearing 8 billion population...the ways of old are failing.

We need massive living quarters like the size or larger of buildings such as the pentagon, only like 20 stories tall and larger in radius...with the center area available for parks, trees, gardens, pools etc... we could house 50,000 per unit, and all livestock and crops to be on mega farms where everyone puts in "jury duty" to help with the food production...

Massive new transportation projects using high speed rail...slower speed rail, and alternative fuels on massive levels....every single roof should have solar pannels on them...modern transport...open up the black ops and give us the damned Tesla technology, and plasma anti-gravity tech...we can reorganize...there is no reason why that in this century we can't END all war, and instead move that $TRILLIONS of dollars spent every year globally into civil re-enginering projects. Don't let anyone tell you we can't because W E C A N ! ! ! !

We need new ideas and fast! If we don't get them...the ways of the old: ie: 26,000 nukes ready to be set off...is this the future we want? it's what we are headed for unless we don't come together immediately and come up with new systems to deal with the populations and the struggles we continue to face year after year after year (homelessness...hunger...lack of health care...starvation...religious strife / associated religio-political corruption at the highest levels...gang / drug problems...military industrial fascist corporate totalitarianism...etc...etc...etc...). We need something free from the Illuminati and the international bankers and oil cartels...

Ideas...Ideas...IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!


[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

If we could somehow build a structure large enough capable of housing 50,000 people, say the size of a square mile, then in USA (300,000,000 pop.) we would only need about 6,000 of these structures. Think about it!!! Think about all the land that would free up for agriculture, animal raising, recreation, and re-integration back into wilderness....

Think about how this would work for CHina and INdia ....
Many people who burn up tons of gas (carbon releases into atmosphere) could now work withing the 50,000 grouping....info-technology and new modern forms of mass transit could link up other 50,000 pods...the benefits to our global ecosystem would be almost unfathonable!

All farming: organic....human and animal waste recycled and used for nutriants...rocks ground up and added to soil for glacial like re-mineralization...water conservation (as per "efficiency") new showering technology and irrigation....new fishing techniques and hidro power generation....each 50,000 bio structure to be nearly self sufficient and economies of small scale existing within so long as it meshes with efficiency, liberty, and justice mission statement principles...schools that would baffel the mind and way beyond anything we now know of...hospital systems fully staffed and the state of the art most modern care available to everyone....arts and entertainment beyond anything we now know or have ever experienced or dreamed about...a brand new and rejouvinated space program...a more prestine and beautiful wildlife ecosystem with animal / wildlife specialists working to restor things to pre-industrial revolution standards... the possibilities are endless!

Think everyone...there are solutions! We can all live a better life!


[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

Sweet dreaming Op, but it will never happen. We all live beyond our needs and then we buy things that aren't really important for life. The funny thing about it is that water is the most important but we price diamonds, gold, silver and all materialistic things as more important. All we really need is food, water & shelter but in todays lifestyle people would die without electricity, gas, cars etc... It would take a world desaster that almost wiped out the human race to go back to working hard and living off the land.

reply to post by Solarskye


I don't mean to just pounce on your post yo...but I find this thread perhaps the most interesting of any on ATS I have ever read because of it's potential in getting people to dream and think...anyway, have you ever considered the $billions and billions of dollars that have been spent over the past century and in particular the past few decades on marketing campaigns aimed at getting people to believe they need all of these things? I bet it's in the $trillions. If that money were re channeled....oh come on.... you people are smart. This whole thing is one gigantic illusion and house of cards...take out the waste and that includes marketing expense and all of it's profound excesses, get rid of the the behavioral punishment/reward paradigm and replace it with a common intrinsic aggregate mutually beneficial approach and suddenly there are new possibilities.

Do you know what a paradigm is? (if so, I’m not trying to be patronizing or condescending or whatever but just humor me for a moment) back when the Quartz was created nobody wanted it because they thought all watches had to come with cogs and hands (as the current paradigm was the swiss watch protocol) so nobody in western culture bought it up....ah, but someone in the Orient was brilliant and willing to step outside of the box and saw possibility....voila!!! Asia gave the world the Quartz watch (the west missed the oportunity because they couldn't see beyond the nose on their own faces)... forget the current system, it's junk...we need a whole new design!!!!! Perhaps a design that can withstand 20 or even 50 billion people...obviously family planning and religion isn't working, so plan on it...we are going to need a new system to deal with all the people.



[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam

I think I am beginning to understand your vision; at least I hope I am. I'm following this thread not to deny your dream, but rather to see if there is any part of it that would be practical. You have an honorable goal, should the details be feasable.

That said, I must again play devil's advocate on the simpler living concept. I myself live a simple life. My home is far away from any sort of town or community, save the small population that lives within a few miles radius. We have grown a garden in the past and plan to this year. We have berry bushes, nut trees, and plenty of deer and turkey to hunt for food. My water comes out of the ground via a private well. My waste is recycled naturally through a septic system.

I love this life. I can turn my head slightly as I type this and see virgin wilderness, unspoiled for at least 200 years. Should I decide to build something (like a chickenhouse I am planning), I simply get some lumber and nails. I have no neighbors within 1/4 mile that are not direct family members. At night, the only sound that is not from nature is that of a freight train coming through 4 miles away. It's not noisy; it is actually a rather peaceful sound at that distance.

Should I decide I want even more privacy, I own that wilderness I spoke of. I can simply stand up, walk out my front door (back door is broken), around the house, and disappear into the brush. There is no one else there to interfere with my thoughts. We have no crime; I do not know of a single robbery attempt in the last 25 years.

Is this type of living what you are envisioning? If so, read on.

I like having electricity. Since there is no one around able to perform tasks like fixing cars, appliances, the house, etc., I have to do all that myself (or carry things into town, or pay extra for out-of-town service). I need the power tools electricity allows me to have. In order to have that electricity, I must pay for it, and therefore have a job. I do not enjoy large-scale farming, so I must get a job in town. It is simply too far to walk, so I need that car. That requires gas. I also need parts to keep it in repair, which also requires transportation.

Should I be hurt, the nearest ambulance will take about 10 minutes to reach me, and another 20 to get to the nearest hospital... an hour more to get to a major city if the local hospital can't help.

Wildlife is abundant here. And while I love to watch the deer that comes into my front yard every summer night to eat the apples off the tree there, I am not nearly as crazy about the chiggers, ticks, swarms of mosquitoes, snakes (including some which are poisonous), scorpions, spiders (including brown recluse and black widow), etc. Even the swarms of gnats are aggravating, though harmless. So I must be aware of my surroundings at all times.

Food is plentiful, but it usually doesn't come in the form of a pizza and is almost never ready in 3 minutes. Fast food does not exist short of a drive to town (which defeats the purpose somewhat). Candy/cake/desserts are a treat, not something you grab at the store while you're there. We do enjoy making home-made ice cream.

In short, not anyone could live here, the way I enjoy living. I have watched people move in and out my whole life. They move in and can't seem to stop talking about how beautiful and peaceful the area is. Then they start complaining. It's so far to town, nothing exciting ever happens, the power goes off a couple of times each month when a tree branch falls across a line somewhere. The complaints get worse and worse, the insects, the people are boring, the neighbor won't stop raising pigs and the law won't do anything about it, or where is the law, period?

Then they move. The house sits vacant for a while, and someone new moves in to start the process all over again.

In short, should everyone decide to 'live off the land', most, IMHO, would simply die trying.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Wow...that is beautiful. Thanks for the taking the time out to write that...I almost felt as though I was actually right there...sort of like when reading John Steinbeck.

Now this sort of throws a wrench in the spokes. For me actually, that would be my ideal to be in the country, but near a major metro area with all it's cultural offerings. I just wonder how practical that will be in the years to come with growing global populations nearing 8 billion soon, and eventually much much larger than that?

I wonder if these supper developed mega metro living units I have described could exist in parts of the world and house the majority of people, and also have some areas set aside for rural dwellers who also might contribute to society in some meaningful way such as the full time bee keeper (provided we still have any of these left in a few more years or decades...the failure of the bee population due to pesticide use perhaps???) or the one who will need to be sure that the super modern and sophisticated automatic sprinkler lines and automated farming systems put into place to grow the food is working...or or or...the family who will tend to the organic farms working with the animals out at pasture and the hens who lay the eggs...I'm sure there will be a need for the rural lifestyle to also exist and share in the new movement. Just how then would such a society on the aggregate level decide who these people get to be? I imagine not everyone would want to be in the country, so the candidates could quickly be narrowed down, but in a population say of 16 billion, land becomes even more scarce, and so only a limited amount can live in the wide open spaces like you talk about...

I also got to thinking how massive such units (taking aprox. one square mile, being about 20 floors high, with a few more floors underground, and a huge center open area available for gardening (flowers for the bees and beauty, vegetables for obvious reasons) recreation, maybe even in more far north regions it could even be domed to create an artificial climate. These units would need massive amounts of water (some of the heating of both water and the units themselves might be able to take advantage of geo-thermal technology and solar generation), sewage systems, electricity (fusion / nuclear technology perhaps? use as much solar and wind generation as possible...hydro-electric where possible...Tesla technology if it truly exists in a practical fashion). Food usage to sustain 50,000 people daily would be a true logistics challenge....yes gardens could be planted and grown inside the structure, on the roof, on the outer edges to maximize all land usage, but that probably would be far from enough...so food products from the massive new agricultural (all organic) plantations would have to be transported in...waste used for compost of course, and the methane for power generation...

At any rate, if we took all the money we have blown for this stupid occupation in the mid east and instead (even better: if we could stop war activities all over the world all nations, all budgets stopped) spent it and all that energy into research and development of such communities and alternative energy projects, imagine what the engineers could come up with?

It starts with the public being aware that there are other possibilities...then learning something about what they might be. Then they begin to put forward political pressure until candidates begin to emerge to capitalize on the new voter intentions....I believe major campaign finance reform will eventually have to pass that will somehow take the corporations and the $billions needed for campaigns out of the mix and restore more of a democratic process, so that the people's say is not so polluted by profit motives of a very small %. What I'm saying, is that I don't think we need any sort of revolution for this new way of dealing with larger populations, declines in energy availability and corresponding increases in prices and pollution output, but rather can do it by electing people to run the transition. If only the idea could spread like a meme all over the globe...can you imagine what would happen if the slave owners threw a war and nobody showed up because they were all busy not being focused on religion or nationalism, but rather on helping one another and enjoying everyone's cultural differences and foods and stories?

So If I had a choice to be able to live in one of these new mega living units or the more solitary life as you propose, I'm not sure what one I would take. Maybe I would make friends with someone like you and then just come out and stay a while, and of course offer up my space for visits in return...seems like we would need a car though because it wouldn't be efficient to run high speed rail out to your chicken barn...


[edit on 11-4-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by ElectricUncleSam

 

I disagree. Ownership of land and cattle etc...we are nearing 8 billion population...the ways of old are failing.

There are a lot of different scenarios that could play out considering "ownership" however, the one who already own livestock should still be able to keep them as their own for as long as they can or as long as society will allow...

We need massive living quarters like the size or larger of buildings such as the pentagon, only like 20 stories tall and larger in radius...with the center area available for parks, trees, gardens, pools etc... we could house 50,000 per unit, and all livestock and crops to be on mega farms where everyone puts in "jury duty" to help with the food production...

Sounds like Sim City to me... The idea of these large buildings would be ok for todays world... But in a simpler time or the beginning times, these sorts of buildings would not and could not be built... I honestly would not want to live in one of these... They sound more like compounds and something the NWO would setup for all the people they force into the system... Not only that, but they make for rather large targets and would contain a huge mass of people making it easy for the NWO to take control or attack... Maybe after all the turmoil settles down and we can finally contribute and not have to worry about any interference then maybe we can build on of these... There are a lot of issues that would need ironing out way before any major building plans...

Massive new transportation projects using high speed rail...slower speed rail, and alternative fuels on massive levels....every single roof should have solar panels on them...modern transport...open up the black ops and give us the damned Tesla technology, and plasma anti-gravity tech...we can reorganize...there is no reason why that in this century we can't END all war, and instead move that $TRILLIONS of dollars spent every year globally into civil re-engineering projects. Don't let anyone tell you we can't because W E C A N ! ! ! !

Agree, all the technologies should be released for everyone to utilize... I agree with all these ideas... However, the goal is to eliminate money and the current system that brings us all down... So we would invest our time and energy, not money or any other form of currency...

We need new ideas and fast! If we don't get them...the ways of the old: ie: 26,000 nukes ready to be set off...is this the future we want? it's what we are headed for unless we don't come together immediately and come up with new systems to deal with the populations and the struggles we continue to face year after year after year (homelessness...hunger...lack of health care...starvation...religious strife / associated religio-political corruption at the highest levels...gang / drug problems...military industrial fascist corporate totalitarianism...etc...etc...etc...). We need something free from the Illuminati and the international bankers and oil cartels...

Yep and yep... The point you just made you should consider when thinking of ways to free ourselves from the current system of money and greed and everything in between...

[edit on 12-4-2008 by ElectricUncleSam]

reply to post by TheRedneck


I would quote, but your post is rather large so I'll do my best to add to your insight...

I think it's awesome you have land and can live off it and yes that is a nice life to have... Everything you mention sounds great to me... I think living would be a like what you describe... I also believe small villages and/or town will develop as well... Mainly because everyone won't have the ability to provide for themselves... The town would allow those without to work for what they need to star their own plots... Most likely it will be large farms and ranches that will start the towns because they would have the means to provide the basics for a family to survive...

Example, if you don't own livestock or have any seeds to plant for crop you would work for a ranch or farm, earn yourself the livestock and seed you need at which point you can choose to live on your own land... Or if someone is so kind they can offer you a plot in exchange for food or services or as a gift, but ultimately up to the original owner... Make sense...

Also I understand your needs for certain things, but have you ever considered that you might be programmed to want these things? I'm sure certain people will be able to provide you with these things, and also it won't be like technology just goes out the window either... There are ways to produce electricity that you could use... Although the world has never been perfect so with any type of system free or not it's going to take a lot of hard work and there will be sacrifices I'm sure... there are sacrifices you make now too... All in all it won't be much different... Ultimately though it would be survival of the fittest...

While I understand where you're going with this, and I think it is ultimately possible (after all... they did it in star trek!) there will probably have to be some interim steps on the way to getting there.


First, we must make money exist as value, not debt. No loaning it into existence by banks, no asking for more than what is out there, no charging interest, and no keeping financial information secret. Issuance of currency, control of interest rates, regulation of its value should be done by a public body, not a private run-for-profit corporation. Corporations entrusted with the public good should not be allowed to have profit be their purpose for existence. Further, their ownership should not be investors interested in profit. But rather, all their information, files, research, materials, and funding should be the property of the public they serve. And the public should be permitted total access to this information (except for things like confidential personal information in the case of a hospital, for example). The rate of progress, efficacy, and efficiency of such an organization will be similar to the success achieved by the open-source operating system Linux, relative to the bloated, expensive, bug-ridden nightmare created by a private corporation known as Microsoft. Public access and public participation are key.


Once this is done, then the projects that get financed around the world change. No longer will the military/industrial/death industry get 90% of government funding (because thats the pet of the bankers). But rather, industries that invest in furthering the stability and health of humanity would be the priority. Research into energy sources, pollution cleanup, efficient production of goods, sustainable development, housing, food, education, healthcare... all these things would finally have the money needed because the decision to finance them will be made by the public, not private, greedy sociopaths.


Once a generation or two has worked on solving humanity's problems (and successfully so, because money was no longer withheld from it) then you'll see cleaner air, independence, a quieter, safer world, and the adoption of these principles worldwide. After all... if you see your neighbor doing well, you want to know how they did it. If the answer lies in humanity being honest with itself, pooling their talents and working together, and getting paid to do it, then other nations around the world will begin to act this way as well. This is the right way to spread "democracy"... by example, not force.


Then a paradigm shift will take place in the minds of people around the world. No longer will people be praised and worshipped for how much material they hoard. No longer will a celebrity be someone who is selfish and denies the rest of the world around them what they need. No longer will a billionaire be considered a role-model. Rather, those heroes who have come up with the best ideas, made the greatest change, helped the most will become the yardstick by which society measures and esteems its public figures. Most importantly, the motivating force for humanity's industry will cease to be greed, and be replaced with progress, safety, health, and prosperity. When one nation in the world succeeds with this plan, the world suddenly will become a little bit safer. Other nations will breathe a sigh of relief knowing that at least somewhere, they're not engaged in an arms race. Other nations will follow. The best news is that everybody will have the opportunity to do this.


Putting the best minds and talents to work on the problems of humanity... allowing them uninhibited access to information, transportation, funding, etc... is the only way to move past the quagmire that we are currently struggling in.


The benefits of the progress of technology belong to all of humanity. When someone out there invents a method for growing 3x as much food per acre, then the price of food decreases for all. When someone invents a machine which can generate energy that is inexpensive and clean, we all have greater health and more money to put to task on other things.


Debts are a burden on humanity. Selfishness is a burden. Denial of information is a burden. Witholding benefits of technology is a burden. Right now corporations and elites are denying access to all of these things, and holding on to them for themselves.


If today a combine tractor can reap 10,000 times as much wheat as a farmer could 100 years ago... then why is a loaf of bread still so expensive? If factories have optimized their efficiencies for producing the various goods we consume, then where is all the leisure time once tied up in man-hours producing them going to? Where are all the benefits of technology we've been promised? Why is the cost of living still so high? Why isn't there time and money to build for society and figure out answers to its problems, but there is always a class of people ready to invest in weapons, disease, drugs, prisons, and war?


Because as a living organism, the whole of humanity is still afflicted with the disease of greed. Within us still lives those who would sacrifice the future to satisfy their greed for today.


We must recognize the source of these problems, and excise them at the root.




[edit on 12-4-2008 by ianr5741]

If everything were free, then there would be nothing.

There would be no incentive to create, no incentive to work hard, no incentive to advance. Nobody would do anything, and very shortly people like this "thinker" would starve to death.

Then the practical ones would roll up their sleeves, and work their tails off to grow the food, sell it and make their families better off.

They would use thiese "free thinkers" as fertilizer.

It's been tried guys. It was called communism, and it doesn't work worht a damn above a small commune level.

You know, I don't even mind things not being free, nor having to work for money. What really bothers me is 1/3rd of my pay check being stolen for taxes which have no benefit to me except repairing the roads, which they don't even do well either. Then they have the gall to steal from me *every* year after I've already payed for my property once.

That's what gets my temperature rising.

reply to post by OldMedic


Man if I had a nickle for every time I have heard this mantra starting from around 1st grade on up!!!!

Just because it is said often doesn't make it so, and just because Beck, Limbaugh, Hanity, Mc Bush and co. say the same thing does not mean, one that is so, and two that it needs to constantly be repeated.

There are many reasons why the former USSR fell apart and collapsed (beyond the scope of this thread) and obviously communism is still alive and well in various parts of the world. These ideas that are being explored go beyond that system as well...we are talking about something completely different...we need a new worldwide system, or do you enjoy living amongst the poor, the hungry, the sick, and the increasingly angry population fet up with runaway executive salaries, broken labor unions, and a totally unjust (fair / equity) system that rewards a very narrow few at the expense of 90% or so of the others? Do you enjoy going about your day trying to add to your stack of federal reserve notes (loosing value day by day) knowing that 26,000+ nukes awate someone pressing the red button? Something has to give, and I maintain it will one way or the other in the future anyway, and all we are doing is tossing out ideas of how to make the world a better place. What if everything was free? That idea may hold more reason that we can even begin to imagine.

Minds already made up leave very little room for exploration and learning.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by skyshow]

reply to post by ianr5741


You definitely put a lot of thought into your post... I read the entire thing and there really isn't much I can say... Good post man! I agree with everything you said and you said it so well...

Everyone should read his post, this is the type of thinking that will get us free from todays struggles!

[edit on 14-4-2008 by ElectricUncleSam]

Shouldn't this thread be remaned C"An arguement for communism is the USA"?

It's like you are the first person to come up with this idea. It's been around for a long time and is still being used today.

reply to post by Enrikez


so then is barter & trade system where no money changes hand communism by your argument? Just because an idea is something other than capitalism does not make it absolutely have to be part of the duality of communism vs. capitalism. It's like assuming the only tools for mankind's use are either the stick or the stone.

reply to post by skyshow


Not at all. I understand that if there was no value to a Ferrari, there would be no jealousy over owning one, but it's still a ferrari. It will still outperform a Kia Rio and there are production issues. You can't have everything nice, because there aren't that many to go around. That is the reason rare items are expensive. It is the same with barter, rarity will still be expensive.

Besides, I'm totally about iron fisted control and slavery. If you want freedom, you have to give up security. If you want stability you have to give up freedom. It's your personal choice, but I'll fight you to the death over it.

Originally posted by ATS4dummies
You know, I don't even mind things not being free, nor having to work for money. What really bothers me is 1/3rd of my pay check being stolen for taxes which have no benefit to me except repairing the roads, which they don't even do well either. Then they have the gall to steal from me *every* year after I've already payed for my property once.

That's what gets my temperature rising.

It's worse than that, my friend. Your income tax pays for NOTHING but the interest on the debt the government owes to the Federal Reserve.

Since money is not gold, but paper, the Fed prints it, loans it to our government, then demands interest on it. The interest is collected by the IRS and given to the Fed.

Sleep well. :-)

I love the idea, but the transition to such a state would not be smooth. Probably would require some form of regulation on the quanity of items being used and Enforcement of that rule. for ex. if a nation became completely independent and non-reliant on imports, they could scrap their dollar and issue a new system. Without regulation on certain service use that country would probably collapse or be forced to rations.

for such a system to maintain, the education system, manfacturing methods, energy and food networks would all have to be in good condition and surplus. Most countries in the world could not pull this off, but i'm sure that a small wealthy european country could do this successfully in a controled experiment. To bad scientists, leaders (and other knowledgeable field experts) don't have the balls to do this.

I've thought about this exact idea a few months ago. If a contained city was redesigned to be 90%+ self-sufficient with materials and energy usage, then that community would not need the current monetary system.

It's definitely possible without free energy being availible. unfortunately you have a long wait before such an ambitious project and large step foward ever sees the light of day.