Everything Should Be Free!

Originally posted by snatchypaws
What a really dumb thread to start.

Do you have any concept about how society and any economic system works?

Yes I do and know a much simpler existance would be more peacefull than what you're programmed into right now... Which is work hard so you can buy something you don't need...

As the post before me said - you have the issue of people wanting to own items that are unique.

Like I said before the items you mention would be of no use man... What are you going to use a bugati or rolex for?

To add to that throw in the following;

Trading: Some people will view what they have / skills at a higher value than others.
When we used to trade 1 chicken for 3 loafs of bread, this worked. Now try and trade 3000 chicken for 1 Rolex watch - best of luck trying to trade those in.

See previous statement.. Won't need these unique items you speak of... You'll be lucky to have a bike... Governments and shoppinig centers were developed for lazy people who didn't feel like hunting for their food anymore... So they developed money and a system of advertising and subliminal news to program these people to buy things and do things they really don't need to have or do... Think more along the lines of basic living...

Structure: As in business, as in society you need structure. Rich people bring something to the table in forms of tax, poor people empty the garbage cans. We are NOT all equal and therefore will never live the same lifestyle.

Wrong, we are all equal as human beings and everyone has a special gift of some kind too making us all unique at the same time... I know crazy isn't it! Once again more proof that the system has this guy or gal completely wrapped up...

Greed: People are greedy, without some level of greed most people loose motivation to do anything. I must express SOME level of greed.

Survival of the fitest and/or the NWO should set you straight on this... You won't have time to be greedy, you will be thankful for those who will help you... Put yourself in a situation where you haven't eaten for 5 days, you come across a camp site with a few people, wouldn't you want them to offer you some food and some drink? And why wouldn't you do this for someone else? You are not making much sense...

Human behavior is purposeful = We all do things in order to better our OWN lives.

This is the American way of things... Not all Americans, but a lot of them go by this "law"... Unfortunately it teaches you to only worry and take care of yourself, and yes if a lot of people become successful that is good for a country, but that won't happen... If anything it will just get worse before it gets any better... The dollar will tank and it won't matter how much money you have , what toys you own, what car you have or what clothes you wear...

Your assumption of 'Well this must work, I just need loads of clever people to sort this out for me' - Is as foolish as the statement 'If everyone in the world stood on each others shoulders we wouldn't need rockets to put men on the moon, lets all think how we can do it'

Please think before you post half baked ideas

Just the fact that you mention half-baked explains a lot... My suggestion to you is to put some thought into what you post before YOU post... You have made little to no sense, you did not add to the post only trolled it with a half-baked opinion and nothing else... How do you explain that?

[edit on 9-4-2008 by ElectricUncleSam]

Originally posted by josephine
thats communism.

You would have to work wherever the govt put you. You think there would be room at the easiest jobs for everyone to work at?

Everyone would have the same things. Factories would only make one type of TV, computer, radio, car,...

Like I mentioned before you have to think on simpler terms... You won't enjoy the luxuries of life, or what we consider luxuries today, at least not in the beginning... Most likely it will simply be the willingness to help each other out that will drive the survival of a system like this... Consider it a free system, free to build a home, free to farm some land, free to have some cows and pigs and breed them yourself, free to provide for those who need, free to protect what's yours, free to hunt the lands, free to trade, free to work or study, free to develop and produce, which would basically start us off on a new path, only this time we do it right by not reproducing our mistakes from today and from our past... This time using the technology we have today for the betterment of all man kind... We don't use our technology for this today... There are ways to produce free energy, free food, free homes and basically everything else we might need to develop and advance... Use our recycling technologies to prevent any over foresting for homes, plant new trees, develop new breeds that grow faster specifically for home building.. Shoot there are lots of ideas and I can go on forever... You get the point hopefully...

Not everyone can drive a Lamborghini and eat filet mignon. But everyone should be fed, housed, and clothed.

If there was NO money. No one would work. No one would do the dirty jobs: sanitation, garbage, hard labor etc.

I believe that if everyone was paid more then there would be more money for them to spend and therefore more money is circulated in the economy.
The cost of the modern day human worker is GREATLY undervalued. That is why we have such a great difference between rich and poor. I believe there should be a dramatic increase in the minimum wage to around $25 per hour worldwide.

Originally posted by AllSeeingI
I believe there should be a dramatic increase in the minimum wage to around $25 per hour worldwide.

Yes but wouldn't that force prices up in general? Companies pay staff more money but increase prices to maintain their profits?

Originally posted by ElectricUncleSam
free to build a home, free to farm some land, free to have some cows and pigs and breed them yourself,

Where would this free land come from? If I had worked my entire life for a piece of land only for a big swap around and land to be given away for free i'd be annoyed to say the least. Who would pay for the cattle? Someone out there would have invested a lot of money in raising the cattle only for them to be given away.

free to work or study,

What would there be to study? What would be the point? Training yourself up and investing in yourself only to what? Give your new found knowledge away for free? Sorry but I think it would inspire lazyness, people would have no real need to further their educations.

This time using the technology we have today for the betterment of all man kind... We don't use our technology for this today...

No we don't and I don't see why technology companies should change? I suppose I could argue that what your sitting on right now has furthered mankind, this technology could and can only improve and yet we will throw this all away?

Great idea, but it wouldn’t work.

Why? Because if everything was free, then there would be no need to work, people would be lazy and stop working (why work if your not getting paid and can have anything you want), then with people quitting work everywhere, nothing would get made, then people would run out of things and so on etc etc.

The only reason most people go to work is for money, if you take away money and the need for it, then most people won’t need to work. They only people left working will be the ones who really love their jobs (very rare, lol).

It’s like Communism, great idea on paper and in theory, but a total disaster in practice.

Mikey

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


When ALL human beings agree that their individual mission statements and the society as a whole is to maximise 1. Efficiency 2. Liberty and 3. Justice. We may actually arrive at what you speak about.

Arts and liesure could flourish, the work week could be chopped in half if we all cooperated and worked at those three things....but the western marketing/consumer culture has to take it's course first, and it may only come to an end after a nasty global war before we come to realise how that system is increadibly wasteful, unfair, and dreadfully captivating in terms of binding us to this massive material illusion...

I truely hope we can get there peacefully however, but with 26,000 nukes ready to go off it's hard to believe that will happen. I think after the war, and after the fall of the marketing culture we as a human society will have a few thousand years of being occupied with cleaning up the radioactive contamination and at basic survival before something closer to the ideal can take shape and flourish. But if only humans could see the foly of the present system and change course before it's too late....it may already be too late, who knows?

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


LOL Well let me start by saying welcome to planet Earth because clearly it's your first day. Get rid of money? I hate to break it to you, but money isn't the root of all evil, the source of everyone's problems as you claim. You don't think there are rich people who are unhappy? Millionaires who suffer from depression? Remember Anna Nicole? Get real. People are depressed because they're unhappy with themselves, not because they don't have enough money to buy the car they want.

Money making the world go around isn't such a bad thing as some people make it out to be. Yes, there's the token corruption, but that exists in any kind of society, even the ones where everyone is "equal"...haha equally poor as someone already pointed out. The thing about money is that you have to make it work for you instead of you working for it. It's motivation to do better than your parents did, to do better than you have already done. If you hate your job and don't want to go because you have to be there 9-5 M-F, then you should realize that executives have to be there 9-5 M-F as well, besides being on call when there's an emergency and also pulling 16 hour days whenever it's necessary. They can make a lot of money but they have to work for it just like everyone else, and they have a lot more responsibility...they don't just get to show up and veg out like the regular employee.

In western society, problems "caused by money" as you put it are really caused by poor planning. Not getting job training after high school, not graduating high school, having kids too early, buying things you can't afford, getting into debt, problems with addiction...these problems people have aren't the fault of money; they're the fault of the people who have them.

So in your perfect world, since there is no money, no reward for doing any sort of work, who is going to grow the food? Who is going to manufacture the cars? (LOL unions won't even do that for less than $50/hour now, let alone free) Hell, who's going to go down into a coal mine risking their very life so you can have power...for free? NO ONE. So think about what life would be like if there were no money...it would be a trip back in time to oh about 5 years after the last ice age.

Originally posted by snatchypaws
What a really dumb thread to start.

Please think before you post half baked ideas

Agreed. I think half baked is the key word...was the OP high when he wrote this?

What Is Really Going On


Assassinated Presidents Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, and John F Kennedy were each trying to regain Constitutional control of US monetary policy.


My website is attempting to explain it all: TS Enigma - ts.enigma.googlepages.com...


Those Who Pull The Strings



"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, ... The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply.'' - Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild



Maybe we need to give Congress & the President a bit of a break. I'll bet their hands are mostly tied.

Maybe it's time for 'we the people' to help them Break Free!

I agree with your post. There's too much poverty, injustice and death in the world happening right now when children are dying of hunger in some countries while in others people trash food, if only we could be more symbiotic and share because my life it's not worth more than any human being regardless of race, creed or genre. Money was created to serve as a mean of facilitate the exchage goods or services, but now has become a mere instrument of the abuse of power from the elites of every country and also in a global basis. I'm not preaching communism, since it's implementation has result in an expansion of the government with the consecuent detriment of the people, but as far as capitalism goes it has deepened the trench between rich and poor and the people who are entrapped in the middle is becoming more aware of how hard are they pulled to the poor's scenario. I like the idea of everything being free as the earth resources and technollogy being accessible to everybody increasing the opportunities of personal developing, as human beings we are unique and each one has unique vocations which would solve the problem of employment since there will be with certainty people willing to perform the task needed for our mutual survival. It's utopic to think that this can be achieved from one day to another, there's to be first an event that lead us there, this event should have to show conclusively that if the humanity keeps going down the road of greed it will destroy itself and the earth resources as well. Until that happens I will start questioning myself in what could I do to help the world to be a better place for us all, a little grain of sand it's not much but little by little... who knows what will happen right?

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam

(You) won't need (Bugattis and paintings by van Gogh). You'll be lucky to have a bike... Governments and shoppinig centers were developed for lazy people who didn't feel like hunting for their food anymore... Think more along the lines of basic living.

This is how you visualize your proposed Utopia?

Pardon me, I hardly ever use these ridiculous things, but



Good luck selling your idea, mate. There's one born every minute, so you should find a few takers. The rest of us will keep what we have... thanks.

reply to post by Astyanax


and why not be part of the solution rather than keeping things the same?

It's exciting to consider the reality that possible solutions do in fact exist, and that humanity can evolve and move forward. The world will indeed look a lot different multiple generations into the future...one way or the other homeostasis will be reached, and wrongs gone on for far too long will some day be corrected.

These are the stuff that dreams are made of sir....may we all dream bigger and faster and move towards breaking free of our bondage and this nasty grip that this monstrous beast has over us.

Efficiency (our cultures are fraught with waste...we can restructure)
Justice (fairness. Everyone deserves clean air and water...healthcare too)
Liberty (we deserve to be something more than slaves to a few power freaks and wealthy bankers)

There above is the key. If we could master these three things...if only we could right now!

OK.... There are a lot of people that only work because have to... because they need money. So what if everything was free? Most of those people would not work. Instead, the would take but not give. Then those who chose to work would soon get tired of supporting those that just wanted to kick back and drink beer (That some one else brewed and bottled) and do nothing. Think about it.. would you want to put in 12 hours a day so your neighbor could sit in a home (that you or some one else built) and watch football on his wide screen TV( that someone else went to work to make).. Everyone would want the best if it's free. (Why drive an old Cavalier when you can get a new Corvette free?) The all for one, one for all idea is similar to communism. It sound good but doesn't work except in a very early stages of development when no one has anything. Energetic people quickly out pace lazy leeches and everything falls apart. Money helps prevent that. If you notice we still have a lot of lazy uneducated people out there. If everything was free, Multiply that number by millions.... well you get the idea.

Originally posted by Larry B.
OK.... There are a lot of people that only work because have to... because they need money. So what if everything was free? Most of those people would not work. Instead, the would take but not give. Then those who chose to work would soon get tired of supporting those that just wanted to kick back and drink beer (That some one else brewed and bottled) and do nothing. Think about it.. would you want to put in 12 hours a day so your neighbor could sit in a home (that you or some one else built) and watch football on his wide screen TV( that someone else went to work to make).. Everyone would want the best if it's free. (Why drive an old Cavalier when you can get a new Corvette free?) The all for one, one for all idea is similar to communism. It sound good but doesn't work except in a very early stages of development when no one has anything. Energetic people quickly out pace lazy leeches and everything falls apart. Money helps prevent that. If you notice we still have a lot of lazy uneducated people out there. If everything was free, Multiply that number by millions.... well you get the idea.

Clearly this didn't work before as evidenced by communism in the USSR.

However, I think the OP clarified his stance by saying that there wouldn't be any of the things you mention, namely consumer goods and that everyone would "live off the land man!" LOL I'm sorry but this is the dumbest thread I have ever read. Even dumber than the one about the guy nuking a hotdog in the microwave long enough to "zap it into the matrix". I think he thought out his posts a little bit more than this guy and his adherents.

There is nothing wrong with money or with working to get what you want. However there is much that's wrong with forcing everyone to do without any of the comforts of life, or being lazy and expecting others to do work on your behalf. to this entire waste of bandwidth.

what incentive would there be to work in the factories that make the products that would be free? Money is useless, what would you give the workers? Unless of course you don't give them anything, but instead assign them a job...oh wait communism. Darn it, you always run into communism when trying to make a utopia.

I have “things” which are not necessities. I worked my butt off to get them. I spent 3 months of hell at my job to pay for an expensive gift for my husband’s birthday. But I also feel a sense of accomplishment. I have sacrificed one thing to gain another. If everything were free, then nothing would have worth. We’d be going to the free store getting more and more crap and none of it would mean anything.

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam



"Anyway, I had this idea... You know how money really sucks? How it basically causes most of todays problems between people and for people?

Would we have the same problems we have today like depression if we didn't need money? "

Are you for real? You are in need of some very serious help.

Why not read, the creature from jekyll island, then get back to us. Because this thread was either started in jest or out of ignorance, I'm not sure which, but the book should dispel some of that NEW AGE brainwashing you appear to be under the spell of.

Good luck pal.

OK.... There are a lot of people that only work because have to... because they need money. So what if everything was free? Most of those people would not work. Instead, the would take but not give. Then those who chose to work would soon get tired of supporting those that just wanted to kick back and drink beer (That some one else brewed and bottled) and do nothing. Think about it..

reply to post by Larry B.


Ah....in the new everything is free world these people who do nothing would be perfect candidates for therapy and rehabilitation.

The idea means thinking completely ouside of the box. Such a system would look absolutely nothing like today, and you could toss out much of the behavioral reward/punishment paradigm thinking as well. This would be strictly intrinsic motivation....in theory it really could work, and work nicely...

reply to post by avingard


The incentives would be vast and numerous. A society that cooperated fully could reduce the work week in half, providing more time for the arts and leisure (I would include much of science, research & development and the specialty occupations ...basically all things other than necessary labor for things and services we need to survive, such as utilities, garbage service, food production etc...). In order for such a system to work, everyone not with a mental deficiency, and who would be able, would thus participate in the system knowing that as a whole everyone gets out exponentially more than what is put in, but that "putting in" is necessary for it happen.

Who wouldn't like more time to create things they love creating...to spend more time with family and friends...to travel...to enjoy the outdoors...to play??? I imagine such a system sort of like jury duty. People only do it once in a while, but all participate basically and the system is fully funcionable....same with doing the "factory" work....we make it like jury duty.

We maximize efficiency by cutting out waste. The marketing/consumer culture needs artificial shortages to whip up perceptions of demand...needs are created out of thin air, and then new ones come about quickly to replace the previous ones, and so the product is thrown away before it is even used up! Mankind could not have invented a more wasteful system for distribution of resources than the one running it's course today in western society.... sorry, we can and one day will do better!!!!!

Best of all, we get rid of the illuminati and all the international banker whores and crooked few who enslave the masses. That alone should be an incentive!


[edit on 10-4-2008 by skyshow]