Who thinks that maybe we overestimate aliens?

Who thinks that maybe we over estimate aliens and their technological and social superiority?
What I mean by this question is that, perhaps we simply try to make any potential aliens as somekind of "higher being" when that case (at least to my satisfaction) has not been made.
A couple of examples;

1.) Why are are convinced that Aliens have "Mastered" intergalactic travel, when they could very well be novices at the whole thing, and have only been at it for lets say 75 years.
Maybe that is why they supposedly crashed at Roswell, they are not infalliable, maybe they simply lost control of the craft due to lack of experience and "human error." For all we know the aliens people claim to see are very specificly trained to fly around the galaxy just like our astronauts and the average alien back home does'nt know anything about us at all because they are too busy doing the 9-5 thing and watching an alien version of Seinfield to care.

2.) Maybe the Aliens that supposedly visit us are not so peaceful and wise. Maybe they have countries were they are from just like we have, and they fight among themselves, country versus country just like here on good ol' earth. Maybe their visits here are nothing more than say one of their countries versions of NASA doing a deep space probe project.

3.) Maybe the only reason that they come here to earth is because we are the only other intelligent life that they are currently aware of, and as far as they know it is just us and them.

I dunno guys I just cant help but wonder why we make them out to be so special, when their is no evidence that they are anymore so than the rest of us working class stiffs.

What do you guys think am I just stupid or what?

[edit on 4-4-2008 by sacerd]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by sacerd]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by sacerd]

[edit on 4-4-2008 by sacerd]

reply to post by sacerd


I would say your theories are as valid as any others.

Look at mankind. What has really changed in our thinking in thousands of years. The same forces are still at work in our thinking and actions. May be there are truly wonderful life forms but I believe that there will certainly be those who live life for their self much like some people on earth do. Power and resources.

What do you guys think am I just stupid or what?

Certainly not. And good tech doesn't make you immune to "Murphy's Law"...even the best made spacecraft has the possibility to crash...and from some evidence, this wasn't always a rare occurance.

I don't think the evidence supports the idea of kind, benevolent aliens. If so, then where the heck is the help? It's been over 50 years (at the very least), and still no "How do you do" officially?

Then, you have their frequency over military and military-related sites, reported abductions, etc. So whatever their motive, it doesn't seem they are here to "help" us in any way.

The exploration curiousity angle seems to be the best supported logical argument. After all, if it was conquest, and they truly have such advanced tech, then we'd certainly have been subjugated by now...

In the Hill abduction case, Betty was shown a star map of yellow stars, and was told that the aliens were travelling between them, looking at stars much like their own. It seems a pretty good theory so far, especially considering that Betty's map included stars (and even their color) that weren't even known about at the time, and only later confirmed!

Still, the ability to travel interstellar differences is certainly impressive, so it is safe to assume that any EBE's tech level is vastly superior than our own. Then again, it could just be one simple premise (much like the TV or computer was) that allows for it, even with relatively low tech, and we could be completely overestimating the aliens' technical know-how.

You are on to something there. It could be that life is so common that most "more advanced" species of aliens just don't even care about us.

I believe that life exists in every corner of the Universe, and varies greatly. I think there are aliens that are genetically identical to humans, to the point that we could breed with them. I also think that if you can imagine it, it exists somewhere.

If a real alien craft came here to visit us, and make themselves known, there is a good chance that they would be some sort of insectoid. If you look at the various species here on Earth, most are insects.

You are not stupid, so.............


"What"

reply to post by Gazrok


Actully, I am not convinced that they could take us over at least not with say a squadron or two of ships.
I am not convinced because, like you say we may not be but one technological advancement from doing what they do. After all lets say you take a battalion of US troops back in time to say the american Civil War, fully equiped with land warrior packages night vision and with all the .223 rounds they want Then point to Tenessee and say there is the south boys, go get em'. The modern U.S. us battalion would NOT win the war by themselves.

Now going on the assumption that the visitors we are seeing is basiclly their version of NASA I really dont think that they would have the manpower, or resources to wage a war and hope to win.

I guess we would have to look into things like, How long has the Universe been around as we know it (Assuming a Big Bang type of Theory) to get a feel on how long it would likely take a species to evolve from primordial goo and grow to such a gigantic technologialy advanced race, with enough of a head start to wage intergalactic warfare.

I suppose I will leave that particular project up to people much smarter than myself to figure out. LOL

Actully, I am not convinced that they could take us over at least not with say a squadron or two of ships.
I am not convinced because, like you say we may not be but one technological advancement from doing what they do. After all lets say you take a battalion of US troops back in time to say the american Civil War, fully equiped with land warrior packages night vision and with all the .223 rounds they want Then point to Tenessee and say there is the south boys, go get em'. The modern U.S. us battalion would NOT win the war by themselves.

No, because you're still talking about flesh and blood troops (in clothes), with very little tech advantage (slinging metal slugs is still slinging metal slugs at each other, even if in the dark). Not to mention, they would certainly still take out FAR more troops. Their flak armor would improve their survivability, and they'd attack only at night, easily wiping out whatever squads they encountered. Not to mention, the sheer advantage of radio would certainly cream the enemy. Even once they had to resort to using "native weapons", the night and radio advantage would still carry the day. (If you doubt it, just ask any Iraqi pilots, if you can find them)...

Now, take a single modern Aircraft Carrier (with planes) back to the 40's and see if it doesn't win the war in the Pacific all by itself....

I guess we would have to look into things like, How long has the Universe been around as we know it (Assuming a Big Bang type of Theory) to get a feel on how long it would likely take a species to evolve from primordial goo and grow to such a gigantic technologialy advanced race, with enough of a head start to wage intergalactic warfare.

That's just it. We're in a relatively middle-aged part of the Universe (as we know of it)...so there is certainly the potential for longer-lived sentient life out there, that may be millions of years older than we are. Most scientists put the Universe's age at around 13.73 billion years old (give or take around 100 million years, based on the math), whereas the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old. So, that's a pretty big window for a more advanced society to have been around, (minusing the time to form habitable worlds of course, say a billion years...). Scientists put the oldest (discovered) planet at around 12.7 billion years old, so we're still looking at a pretty big window.... There could have been flourishing, space-faring aliens while we were still just amoeba-like cells floating in primordial ooze...


[edit on 4-4-2008 by Gazrok]

Well it would seem that if the stories of the military chasing UFOs is true then we have not had much luck at downing any.

This does not actually saying anything about the situation other than we may not be able defeat their craft in the air with more conventional weapons. Even the cops can't all ways catch a crook in an old car fleeing a crime scene.

Nice subject. Its something I've pondered alot.

100 years ago us humans had only just invented powered flight. Within that century we invented props, jets, turbojets, ramjets, scramjets, rocket planes, visited the moon and created a reuseable spaceplane, and have robotic rovers on Mars. And yet us humans haven't changed that much at all in our political and social ways.

Who's to say that in the next 50-100 years we won't make the big leap into FTL travel?

If things move the same in the socio/political areas in that time, we'd probably be pretty much as we are now, but "out there".

Thats quite a scary thought actually.....

Originally posted by Gazrok
In the Hill abduction case, Betty was shown a star map of yellow stars, and was told that the aliens were travelling between them, looking at stars much like their own. It seems a pretty good theory so far, especially considering that Betty's map included stars (and even their color) that weren't even known about at the time, and only later confirmed!

Don't you find the military involvement in this case suspicious or at least intriguing?

I'm still trying to find ways to reframe it as a failed psy-op.

Just a thought.

Don't you find the military involvement in this case suspicious or at least intriguing?

Not really, they were good friends with other military folks. Coming from a military family background myself, I can certainly understand why the Hills would go to them for assistance. From my research, the Hills asked military friends to get involved, not vice-versa. At first, they weren't seeking any attention, and kept the inquiries on the down low. Somebody else actually broke the story, and then the Hills went more public to defend themselves.

I'm still trying to find ways to reframe it as a failed psy-op.

I seriously doubt the Hills would "play along" with such an op for so long. That would make them arguably the best spies to ever play the game...(although I suppose you could argue that the Hills weren't "in on it", and were brainwashed, but it seems a bit of a reach as to motive.... then there's the map...even the military didn't know about those stars then...so they just guessed? I want those same g-men picking my lotto numbers tomorrow....



[edit on 4-4-2008 by Gazrok]

reply to post by Gazrok

Eh, still got to disagree with you about the whole, just because they have arrived that means that they would win any war.
The way I figure it, assuming, as the topic was intended to imply in the beginning, that they are NASA type explorers, and we are; as suggested "one tech advance" away from the secrets of interstellar travel ourselves I just don't buy that they could pull it off.
As far as a battalion US solders vs. the entire confederate army, still I am not convinced. I mean it is not as if the gatling gun was not invented by then, and we had pretty much mastered the science of the lantern by then to peek into the darkness as well not to mention booby traps and the like that would most assuredly be present, just ask any Vietnam veteran.
Superior tech does not always win the day.
Besides if the "Aliens" wanted to "hold" the ground they would have to land and get off the ship eventually assuming of course we are still talking about the visitors as described in the initial post.
While I agree that Yes the US Solders of modern day would have the advantage against a civil war battalion vs battalion but still attrition alone would do them in when combating the entire Army.
Concerning a US Aircraft carrier into the 40's, well I still kind of doubt that it was "unsinkable" or "indestructible" by any stretch. After all we had the tech to make an A-bomb in the 40's right? I don't think that a modern aircraft carrier would hold up to that type of barrage even if the tech is 60 years old.
But I do respect your knowledge on the age of the universe.