9/11 Photos, or Lack Thereof...

personal accounts of the event are heart-wrenching, but have no bearing on what caused the event. because you were there, does not mean that you could smell or feel or hear or touch or taste the perpetrators. only holistic investigation achieves a semblance of truth.
the obfuscation tactics of the media and government are practically admissions of guilt to me.
hide the evidence of the collapses, point fingers at invisible enemies, claim secrecy requirements for 'national security', 'let us not tolerate any conspiracy theories'(g.w.bush in his big speech after the event), completely ignore tower seven,....etc.

Originally posted by heelstone
Photographers had just an hour or so before the buildings collapsed. It would be hard to take any amount of pictures of the dead before all the debris fell. Most likely all photographers feared for their lives and stood way back away from the buildings.

FEMA cordoned off the area for several blocks immediately following the collapse of the WTC buildings. Most of the images of the carnage would be lost to history as a result. I'm sure the government has a lot of gory pictures of the event, but more than likely they will never see the light of day for the public to see.

[Edited on 19-2-2004 by heelstone]

They were also arresting and threatening anyone with a camera in the area for weeks after the disaster. The steel was hauled off under the tightest security ever given to a scrap metal hauling operation, the trucks hauling the debris were equiped with GPS systems and one driver was fired for being late for returning late from a break. Why all the secrecy in hauling off scrap metal and debris? Damn good question, but one thing is certain, criminal destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice was the order of the day. Why they decided to haul off the debris (evidence) in such a hurry, why norad failed to react, why they lied about finding the flight recorders, why the man who wired the main terrorist 100,000 was metting with senate intelligence committee members the morning of 9-11, why subsequent investigations of the incident were stonewalled by the Bush administration, who steel framed building collapsed 'from fires', three times for the first time in the history of steel framed high rises, why there were reports of explosions in the buildings before the collapse, why the WTC security team owned by Marvin Bush contracted literally to the day of 9-11 pulled out the bomb sniffing dogs the weekened before 9-11, why they just happened to have a 'power down' of the building the weekend before, those questions and many others remain wholly unanswered.

Yeah, and then Giuliani gets to be Person of the Year and I heard he was knighted by Queen Elizabeth or something. And he had his hands in that pie too--go figure.

there were thousands of people who died that day do you relay want to see pictures???? the event happpend for whatever reason?????

OMG....
You know what the sad thing is? When a person dies they should be able to do so with dignity...Plain and simple. The Media took that away from those people by showing their death's on the news, in pictures and magazines and on these videos, now you want to take it away, too? I am disgusted by this disrespect of the dead. I am a Licensed Funeral Counselor and have had to be by the side's of people that were dying and their families and that is the hardest thing to do. Helping someone retain their dignity is vital to a peaceful or not so peaceful passing...After all, I am sure that the last thing on their minds was wanting to be filmed while their lives were taken from them, let alone having their body parts on display for everyone to see... Suspicious? No. You are just plain morbid. Sad that those people had to be sacrificed because of the corruption and stupidity of our President and his whores... Wow, some people never cease to amaze me.

Not meaning to drag up old posts, but..

Originally posted by 10DeadInside10
I know this may seem sick or wrong to some people, and my intentions aren't sick or wrong. Well my question is why hasn't there been any photos of bodies from 9/11 or photos of gory stuff from that day? I have only seen 1 graphic photo, of a limb, since that event happened. You would think film crews and cameramen would have taken hundreds of hundreds of pictures of the area since it was a big event. So why the lack of pictures?

I'm curious because I find it suspicious that there have been no body pictures or pictures of bodies found in the rubble etc. There's pictures of some dead guy in Wisconsin or whatever who got into a car accident and no one knows who he is, but pictures of his dead body are online still. So I would assume the biggest Terrorist Attack on U.S. soil would have cameras all over the place.

Let me know what you think...

You might've already gathered in this thread that such photographic evidence does exist, but I might add the following:

There would have been more graphic evidence, but it's been estimated that about 1000 people were "vaporized" (the medical term used) during the collapses. That means, somehow during the collapse, their bodies were utterly destroyed, instantly cremated.. you get the idea. I suppose they befell the same fate as the concrete slabs that were totally pulverized into a fine dust. You can be sure that whatever did that to the concrete was also very destructive upon the human bodies in the building.

Welcome to Amerika.

vaporized? why not 'crushed' i wonder? you think they would be crushed. vaporisation implies intense heat. this issue of where the heck did all the energy come from keeps popping up.
i've seen the chemical analysis of the dust before(i can't find it, anymore). there was a great deal of concrete and gypsum, and a surprising amount of plastic, paper, people, and everything else you see in an office building, and it was ALL vaporized.
middle eastern passports are indestructible, though. they survive huge fireball of jet fuel, an hour or two of office fire, and then a 'typical(lol) historical(rotflmao)' runaway collapse.

middle eastern passports are indestructible, though. they survive huge fireball of jet fuel, an hour or two of office fire...

I think they claimed it flew out of the building when the plane crashed... but it's still strange that it got out of the plane.

Originally posted by 10DeadInside10
I know this may seem sick or wrong to some people, and my intentions aren't sick or wrong. Well my question is why hasn't there been any photos of bodies from 9/11 or photos of gory stuff from that day? I have only seen 1 graphic photo, of a limb, since that event happened. You would think film crews and cameramen would have taken hundreds of hundreds of pictures of the area since it was a big event. So why the lack of pictures?

I'm curious because I find it suspicious that there have been no body pictures or pictures of bodies found in the rubble etc. There's pictures of some dead guy in Wisconsin or whatever who got into a car accident and no one knows who he is, but pictures of his dead body are online still. So I would assume the biggest Terrorist Attack on U.S. soil would have cameras all over the place.

Let me know what you think...

some of my coworkers were on the 37th floor, they saw people cut in half from flying glass, people jumping out of windows. It really happened.

you might recall the gigantic dust cloud that covered downtown, probably didn't make for great conditions to take pictures.
most people were running for their lives, thinking armageddon had arrived.

and the mood of the country right afterwards wasn't really "lets take gory pictures and publish them"

Originally posted by msdos464

middle eastern passports are indestructible, though. they survive huge fireball of jet fuel, an hour or two of office fire...

I think they claimed it flew out of the building when the plane crashed... but it's still strange that it got out of the plane.

he must have decided he wouldn't be needing it anymore at the last minute, and rolled down the window and threw it out of the plane. there's no way in hell a little booklet could survive that crash and fire.

it's an obvious frame up. plant fake evidence, and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to rapidly destroy the real evidence.

you do not know the power of the dark side, (heavy breathing)

Originally posted by msdos464

middle eastern passports are indestructible, though. they survive huge fireball of jet fuel, an hour or two of office fire...

I think they claimed it flew out of the building when the plane crashed... but it's still strange that it got out of the plane.

Some of the plane made it through the building, complete with body parts if I remember correctly, so that's one possible route. Also I've read of other belongings from the passengers being found -- an air miles card at the WTC, a driving licence at the Pentagon etc -- so were they "indestructible", too?

Originally posted by ashmok
Some of the plane made it through the building, complete with body parts if I remember correctly, so that's one possible route. Also I've read of other belongings from the passengers being found -- an air miles card at the WTC, a driving licence at the Pentagon etc -- so were they "indestructible", too?

how is it that the pentagon fire vapourized all the aluminum, yet 100% of the passengers had identifiable DNA survive the fire? is DNA more fire resistant then aluminum?
i've never heard of body parts in planes before. that would be a possible route, if it's ture. can you post some kind of support for that supposition?

too many questions, and hardly any evidence.

gag orders out the wahoo, and the people aren't supposed to believe there's a cover-up.
the truth will out. most people believe the government is lying, now. apologists might want to make their peace with god, because when the mob hits critical mass, everyone in castle frankenstein is going to burn.

Originally posted by billybob
how is it that the pentagon fire vapourized all the aluminum, yet 100% of the passengers had identifiable DNA survive the fire? is DNA more fire resistant then aluminum?

It didn't vaporize all the aluminium, and one of the passengers wasn't identified (the 2-year-old Dana Falkenberg).

As to DNA, that's hard to destroy. Some scientists think there's even a chance of recovering some from cremated remains, others disagree but it does show what might be possible.

Also it makes for an interesting comparison. Crematoriums typically use temperatures of around 1800 degrees F for 90 minutes to destroy a body. Aluminium, by comparison, has a melting point of 1220 degrees F, so it's not at all impossible that some wreckage may be destroyed in a fire, while DNA survives.

I'll go find a link for you on the WTC wreckage & body parts -- back later.

Hmm, actually I may have been thinking of Flight 175 rather than Flight 11. Apologies for being misleading -- I'll withdraw the "body parts" comment until I can find something to support it (if I can at all).

[Later] -- there's some details on the plane wreckage that made it through the buildings at www.911research.wtc7.net... . Looking at that I suspect I was thinking of Flight 175, not 11.

There was one story in 2003 that said two of the WTC hijackers remains had been identified, though (www.cnn.com...) so clearly some body parts had been recovered, although we don't know who, or from where. (And of course some will say the story is made up anyway).

[edit on 29-7-2005 by ashmok]

Originally posted by ashmok

As to DNA, that's hard to destroy. Some scientists think there's even a chance of recovering some from cremated remains, others disagree but it does show what might be possible.

Thank you for making the point about crematorium temperatures versus heated aluminium temps, too - it's a point that some theorists keep forgetting and/or ignoring

Perhaps more importantly, fires such as those in the WTC complex may not have been at a sufficiently high temperature and/or had not burned at that temperature for the adequate time to insure complete destruction of DNA; this is why it's not uncommon to take (and successfully test) DNA samples from building fires, house fires, warehouse fires etc.

In practice it's actually somewhat difficult to completely incinerate human remains. Commercial crematoriums typically expose bodies to 2,000°C for two hours and under these conditions, the ashes will generally not yield DNA, though it's not outwith the realms of possibility. Most remains recovered from building fires, however, are not totally incinerated and will contain viable DNA.

Within the bone, DNA is very stable and can withstand temperatures of several hundred degrees or more for short time periods. It's really only as a bone becomes calcined or has been completely cremated (ie, is ash) where the difficulty becomes impossibility in terms of extracting DNA.

Ah, this turned into DNA 101, and that's not what I'd intended...apologise in advance! My point was simply that it's perhaps not prudent to conclude that because aluminium has melted/been otherwise destroyed at a certain temperature, then no body parts/DNA could have survived.

Because it can

that's actually pretty fascinating.
i didn't become interested in conspiracy for the sake of being labeled a hard-headed kook.
i can believe that enough dna of each passenger survived the fire, but then....
where did they get dna samples for all the passengers to match to? this is not something i'm aware of being 'on file' for every single human on the planet. did they go to every victim's home, and find a piece of hair or a fingernail? that would require time, and a lot of manpower. did they do analysis on the dna of every body? that's time consuming and expensive. i'm not that well read on the timeline of the passenger identification, but didn't they identify the bodies nearly right away? why would they do such a great job investigating that, but the actual 911 investigation was more of a coverup than an investigation?

i don't know about you, but even if the official lie is mostly true(ie, the mechanics of it), i still know it's a lie(ie. the motive and the reason for stonewalling intelligence investigations prior to the attack, and other mechanical failures of the us security forces, accidental or intentional).


grover norquist has ties to terrorist islamo-fascists. have you guys ever checked THAT out? there ARE people in the government who are complicit. you are either with them, or against them.



[edit on 30-7-2005 by billybob]

A mother and child would share the same mitochrondrial dna (since this is only passed on by the mother); essentially the mitochondria is "cloned" from the mother.

This is why we can identify remains using only the mother's dna, or that of a maternal relative.

"Therefore each child of a particular woman will share her mitochondrial DNA sequence, which will also be the same as all the mother's brothers and sisters, her mother and all other relatives along the maternal line. This means that a match in the DNA sequence indicates that the deceased person is likely to be a member of that family. This evidence can assist the Coroner in making a positive identification of the deceased. Obviously, this method cannot be used to distinguish between more than one deceased person from the same maternal line"

Linky, coincidentally mentioning identification of flight 800 victims (similar situation in terms of what was left)

Many (most?) relatives came forward and offered samples; with regards to the hijackers, the official story that "dna was tested against items found in cars/homes of the hijackers" isn't implausible (once we assume that the hijackers were on board, but that wasn't really the point anyway).


[edit on 30-7-2005 by Tinkleflower]

In practice it's actually somewhat difficult to completely incinerate human remains. Commercial crematoriums typically expose bodies to 2,000°C for two hours and under these conditions, the ashes will generally not yield DNA, though it's not outwith the realms of possibility. Most remains recovered from building fires, however, are not totally incinerated and will contain viable DNA.

Within the bone, DNA is very stable and can withstand temperatures of several hundred degrees or more for short time periods. It's really only as a bone becomes calcined or has been completely cremated (ie, is ash) where the difficulty becomes impossibility in terms of extracting DNA.

This just makes the total vaporization of about 1000 WTC victims even more pondersome.

The same thing that did this to the concrete,



also completely destroyed about 1000 victims, so that no single part of their bodies were ever found or identified. There were other victims who were found in about 200 pieces, but for some 1000 there wasn't even that much. Something completely vaporized them. But what was it? Fire? Were there really 1000 people concentrated on the floors that were on fire, and were the fires really hot enough to begin with? We know that fire cannot produce concrete dust as you see in the above picture, so fire is not the source of such energy.

So maybe it was the collapse. But what about the collapse would vaporize a body? Certainly you can expect bodies to be crushed, resulting in body parts being found, etc., but what part of the collapse would've totally vaporized 1000 people, as well as all the concrete in the building? The bodies were not concentrated to the fire of impacted regions, and certainly the concrete was used all over the building. Explosives? Something to consider.

Several hundred thousand tons of debris collapsing onto a body would do a pretty good job of completely destroying a body. Some portions of the building would have had more debris come down in bigger piles than others, causing the bodies to be crushed so small that they couldn't recognize the parts as being from a body. There were survivors found in pockets of debris, where a couple of feet away there was a huge pile of debris.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Several hundred thousand tons of debris collapsing onto a body would do a pretty good job of completely destroying a body. Some portions of the building would have had more debris come down in bigger piles than others, causing the bodies to be crushed so small that they couldn't recognize the parts as being from a body. There were survivors found in pockets of debris, where a couple of feet away there was a huge pile of debris.

Maybe you don't understand what "vaporized" means. It doesn't mean 'mashed up real good', or however else you've taken it.

va·por·ize (vā'pə-rīz') pronunciation
tr. & intr.v., -ized, -iz·ing, -iz·es.

To convert or be converted into vapor.

What it means is that there was nothing left of these people at all. That doesn't happen from debris falling on someone, even from the biggest chunks of it at the WTC over and over.

And yet that's exactly what happened to those people, according to medical reports from Ground Zero.

NEW YORK (AP) — Three months after the World Trade Center attack,
victims' families are being forced to face the ghastly possibility that many of
the dead were "vaporized," as the medical examiner put it, and may never be
identified.

www.fdiai.org...

As soon as you manage to vaporize something by dropping chunks of concrete and steel on it, you be sure to let us know.