The Prophetic Rise of Mystery Babylon

Those who've read my postings here at ATS have known that I tend to think that the biblical "Babylon" in Revelation is the USA, and that the "harlot" who rides the beast, leader of Babylon, in Revelation would be a female leader or influential figure at the time.

Well, naturally when Hillary Clinton said she was running for President, on top of all of Bush's war mongering, had me thinking she might be just that female leader. But this isn't a thread about that theory, or even discussing anything like it. Rather, its about a prediction. I don't know why i feel this way about it, but this is how I feel, call me crazy all you'd like.

Barack Obama has won the past 11 state primaries. There are two big ones coming up, Texas and Ohio. In Texas, it looks as though Barack could pull the state, while Ohio looks to be a longer shot.

As we all know, there were 12 tribes of Israel that were defeated and taken into exile by the original Babylon, the original Babylonians, under Nebuchadnezzar. There is historic evidence to prove this, yet other, newer things in the Bible are challenged as outright lies, such as Jesus' existence. But this thread isn't about that either. The 12 Tribes were defeated by Babylon in the beginning, and so shall it be in the end, until Messiah comes.

Therefore, as a symbolic rise to power, Hillary Clinton will lose one of the two primaries to Barack Obama, giving him 12 consecutive states, the symbolic twelve tribes in this particular instance. Then she will win (un)lucky 13th, likely Ohio, which will keep the race side by side. Then, when the super delegates are all applied, Clinton will end up becoming the nominee for the Democratic Party for President. You're hearing it ahead of time, from me, someone who doesn't want to see that happen at all, despite the fact that she's lost the past 11 states. She will still be the nominee, and will do so through a symbolic victory of the 13th state, she being Mystery Babylon the Great, Mother of all Harlots, and Obama's 12 victories representing the tribes, despite all of their grandness, in defeat and bondage by the evil power of the day.

No .. I'm not too into the election, I barely keep up with it, I just get pre-monitions .. thoughts.. weird day dreams .. some come true, some dont. Other times ideas pop in my head .. some are good some arent. Some predictions come true, some don't. But should this prediction fail, Clinton will still end up as President, some way, some how, some time. That is for certain, it is a cornerstone of end time prophecy just itching to nudge itself into the picture, unfortunately.

source: edition.cnn.com...
Obama has accused both Clinton and her husband of engaging in unfair attacks.

Obama, who has rolled to 11 straight wins since Super Tuesday, leads Clinton by 140 pledged delegates, according to CNN estimates, going into the Texas and Ohio primaries.

reply to post by runetang


Interesting concept.

I really hope you're wrong.

Other members have said that Obama is the antichrist.

Wouldn't it be strange if both of them were running for President?

Well, the antichrist is supposedly killed and then brought back to life. This is where his 'evil' really begins.

There have been rumors of an assassination of Obama (Secret Service scare in Texas recently).

We are living in strange times indeed.

I hope we are just paranoid .

Wouldn't that be great ?

Yeah I had that thought too. The assassination stuff worries me..

The alternative scenario to Hillary winning the nomination outright would be Obama being assassinated, or injured in an attempted assassination, to where she would have to take over.

This would mean that they'd have to be running mates in the end of the primary, Clinton being Obama's VP. With all the dirty talk going on the past couple days, I don't see how either one would be the others' running mate.

I agree with my man Biggie... very interesting concept. Threads like this are one of the things I love about ATS.

As far as Hillary becoming Obama's VP... It has been talked about on the mainstream news stations. I just saw it the other night on MSNBC where they were discussing this exact scenario.

Personally I think Hillary will get the nomination by hook or by crook, she is the anointed one, hand picked by the global elite. In my mind everyone else is just distraction and filler for the dog and pony show that we call the electoral process. But is Hillary the "whore of Babylon"?? Very interesting concept indeed. I'm giving you stars simply for an original post and a very interesting concept.

Well who is it in Revelation that is supposed to be killed and then brought back to life? Is it the antichrist? In this case, given the Obama assassination, would he be the antichrist? Would he be assassinated and then come back to life? Ooooo, weird.

reply to post by idle_rocker


*IF* Obama was the antichrist, yeah it would be much like the attempted Reagen assassination except Obama would be injured much more so than Reagen was. So the country/world may watch on thinking he has no chance to pull through etc, then he could make a full recovery, but the experience would leave him absolutely rotten minded, looking for a form of revenge, etc.

I personally don't think he's antichrist, he's just too .. i dunno, hes just not fitting that mold too well. I dont see him making peace agreements and wars in Jerusalem, then attacking it some time later. Cant forget the proclaiming oneself as a God in the Temple.

Lately I've been having the notion that maybe antichrist isn't one man. Rather, antichrist is a position. All men who attain it, are acting opposite of Jesus, so anti is applied to the word christ. Maybe the Presidency is the antichrist.

Mystery Babylon is supposed to sit upon many waters, fornicating with the nations' Kings. Waters are symbolic of peoples. Fornication is symbolic of improper relationships, ungodly ones, ones based on usury, or domination by one party only. So i normally say that it's Columbia, Lady Liberty who is the actual "Mystery Babylon".

I've got another one for you. In the book of Revelation it states that Babylon will be the center of power of the world, that the world would be run essentially or controlled from this one great city. The leader of the world, in this city. What is the greatest city, New York City? Hillary Rodham Clinton's district you mean? See .. she's even the Senator of New York. NYC has the United Nations building centered there, and leaders of all nations attend the U.N. meetings. The events that dictate what happens all across the world in the next few years are periodically all selected by the world government, the U.N., in New York City, the seat of power of the world. Many people call the U.N. a hollow institution when it comes to power, I disagree. I think the President of the U.N. has access to the most power on Earth, because he can conjure up many nations at once, or make a world wide mandate.

Who knows, maybe the next U.N. President will be our man! lol..

[edit on 2/24/2008 by runetang]

Interesting idea. My problem is with a nearly 2000 yr old book describing who to me are two insignificant individuals as biblical significants. It's not impossible though. Any ideas on the two witnesses who will be killed and resurrected at jerusalem?

Here's a potential problem with any end-time prophesy. The Bible says that the end will come "like a thief in the night" (1 Thessalonians 5:2), in other words, when people are least expecting it, so I believe the end will come when people *are not* predicting it.

Lets just hope Hillary doesnt win...

I'm not against women being president, I'm just against Hillary...We are all screwed if she gets elected. I can't even believe she's made it this far. Her voters are living in a dream world.

The only thing that I really have to say is that when I read about folks likening politicians and political candidates to be the 'Anti-Christ", it provides me proof that we still have yet to fully emerge from the Dark Ages.

While the OP is provocative, it isn't compelling. It provokes unease among those who are predisposed to being influenced by irrational commentary, and it provokes dissension among those who would be rational. Hitler could have been the Anti-Chirst, so could have Idi Amin Dada. If the Anti-Christ were standing front and center, what would be the required proof that the Anti-Christ would be what one would suppose it to be? Would a fire breathing monster suffice? Or, would the murder of millions of people suffice?

The irrational only succumb to fear and this is why a great effort is continuously expended to maintain an irrational populace. If Jesus Christ or the Anti-Christ were standing front and center today no one would be able to tell the difference from one to the other. Never mind explaining why such powerful entities would bother running for a political election. The entire matter of religious figures running for public office is absurd. What would be the point?

Sometimes I think that the fear that many people carry is fear that they want to carry. That it's something that they choose to do. Doing so provides an excuse not to take responsibility. It provides the excuse to blame God. "Oh God, why?" That's what is commonly heard. Thing is, God has nothing to do with it. This is Man's deal, and Man is fully responsible for what happens regardless of what Man thinks or feels about it.

God does not care. And Man's condition is not God's fault. Unfortunately, many miss the beauty in that. Over the ages many have missed the beauty in that and so Men felt compelled to create artificial standards of beauty to alleviate their uncomfortable lack of understanding. Anyone who would believe that God, the all powerful, all knowing God would be held to the dictates of one book that was written by Men -- well, that person should contemplate herself or himself and God more.

Proverbs 26:12 (New International Version)

12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes?
There is more hope for a fool than for him.

Source

Proverbs 26:12 (King James Version)

12Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Source

The 12 tribes of Isreal were two kingdoms. The 10 tribes in the north part of Isreal broke off from the other tribes. And became the nation of Isreal.With their capital city being Samaria. The two remaining tribes became the kingdom of Judah. Which the Jews name comes from.Their capital city was Jerusalem. During the time of King Ahaz of Judah and King Hoshea of Isreal. The Assyrians army came and capturn the kingdom of Isreal and carry their captives away. But they didn't invade the kingdow of Judah.The King of Assyria during that time was Shalmaneser. But later the Babylonians came and invaded Judah. Both invasion happen around 100 years apart from each other. 70 years later the Judians was giving back the land of Judah by King Cyrus of Persia. But the northern ten tribes were never return to there land.

i'm afraid i have to not agree with the OP theory, or musing....

Mystery Babylon, the woman seated upon the beast, has been around since men first founded cities... so the woman isn't Hillary or any other
contemporary female, politician or religious leader, etc.


the woman riding the beast empire is the antithesis of the Bride-of-Christ,
which is 'the Church'.
The whore, Mystery Babylon, is the counterpart for the anti-christ.
Just as the 'Bride' (Church) is the counterpart foir the returning 'Christ'


that's my 2 bits.......

Ok having had a read of the revelations in my bible, im now even more confused, there are so many possibilities even in the current modern world. Babylon, literally Babylon (city of, rebuilt, middle east etc), the church? China? Usa? Eu? I guess all of you anticipatory christians will just have to wait and see what happens. You may be waiting forever.

[edit on 24-2-2008 by mrmanuva]

Hmmmmmm.... I live in Babylon! (Long Island, New York)....

Originally posted by runetang

I personally don't think he's antichrist, he's just too .. i dunno, hes just not fitting that mold too well. I dont see him making peace agreements and wars in Jerusalem, then attacking it some time later. Cant forget the proclaiming oneself as a God in the Temple.

Well since you're referencing the bible here let's see.... It also says that he'll deceive many and that he won't exactly have a tatoo on his forehead saying " Hello I'm the Anti Christ ", so he won't make himself purposefully ummm Anti Christy if you will????
So the fact that some don't see him as fitting the mold might actually supposed to be that way.


[edit on 24-2-2008 by Albert Wesker]

[edit on 24-2-2008 by Albert Wesker]

Don't forget to figure in Obama's wife.

I understand she is gathering a bit of a following.

Semerimis was of dark skin called herself Queen of Heaven before she became Isis.

Hi, I've read the OPs version of Babylon before. This isn't the first mention of it, obviously. I thought I'd share what versions of Revelation "Babylon" have been theorized upon since the days of the catholic church fathers, threw the protestant church fathers, and finally down to today. These ideas are all important to consider, as nothing is entirely obvious yet (although it is getting close to full "revelation" or seems that way).

There are several different approaches to determining the passage of time in Revelation, a very important piece of data if you wish to accurately discover who is what and where. So let's start with the various ways to determine time passage:

PRETERIST Approach:

The preterist believes Revelation has already been fulfilled and we are living in the 1000 year millenium.

PARTIAL PRETERIST Approach:

The partial preterist believes not everything has been fulfilled, so we are not living in the 1000 year millenium at this time.

FUTURIST Approach:

The futurist always interprets all the events as modern day happenings, either currently going on or scheduled to happen in the near future. They do not believe we are living in the 1000 year millenium at this time.

PERSONAL Approach:

This approach assumes you are the timekeeper and your actions determine how fast or slow time elapses in your personal revelation.


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These approaches are all further broken down into segments, based on interpretative style. The interpretative styles are:

METAPHORICAL Interpretation - this approach ignores most of the events of Revelation, preferring to think of the entire thing as non-literal symbols, not unlike the concept of the Temple of Solomon being a building constructed to depict the human body, with the holy of holies representing our conscience. To them, the entire thing would be likened to a fairy tale for the purpose of teaching us deeper wisdom. This is the most prevalent view amongst mystery beliefs and secret societies, such as masonry.

LITERAL AND METAPHORICAL Interpretation - this approach relies more upon the idea that the scripture has to be "rightly divided", a concept that allows the reader to determine what is and isn't literal. The remainder is symbolic and is applied in that fashion to the rest of the information. This is the most prevalent view amongst protestants and occassionally catholics.

LITERAL Interpretation - this approach believes every last event in the book of Revelation is completely literal and that nothing is symbollic. This view is extremely rare for several reasons, starting with the way in which biblical prophecy is interpreted in places like the book of Daniel.

PERSONAL Interpretation - this approach assumes each individual goes through their own tribulation, so the 7 year trib, the rapture, the 7 headed beasts, the whole ball of wax, is assumed to be interpreted locally (meaning only as relevant to you and your actions).

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Next, the interpretation is broken down into the components regarding the concept of "Rapture", thusly:

PRETRIB RAPTURE - People who believe this, assume the church (body of believers and not any specific church) will be raptured (taken up) off the earth at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation.

MIDTRIB RAPTURE - People who believe this, assume the church (body of believers and not any specific church) will be raptured (taken up) off the earth at the mid point of the 7 year tribulation.

POST TRIB RAPTURE - People who believe this, assume the church (body of believers and not any specific church) will be raptured (taken up) off the earth at the end point of the 7 year tribulation.

NO RAPTURE - People who believe the concept of Rapture to be a false doctrine.

REVERSE RAPTURE - People who believe only the bad people will be taken up, leaving the good people to repopulate the earth

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Next, the interpretation of the tribulation period has a couple different views:

7 YEARS - this approach assumes the events that herald the end of the age will happen over the course of 7 years, period, end of story.

EMPIRES - this approach assumes the events happen over the course of all the "Babylon"-based empires, down thru the history of the planet, with the last one heralding the end of the age, which may or may not, be marked by the 7 year tribulation at the end of it.

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The 7 heads of the beast as 7 kings, is divided into 3 schools of thought:

7 KINGS - This view assumes there are literal kings instead of literal kingdoms, depicted by the 7 heads of the beast. Therefore, this approach doesn't follow a given pattern in time, other than specific king figures. an example might be, Alexander the Great as one king and Hitler as another, etc. The time frame is not as rigid and not as easily determined because there's no predetermined empire supporting the king in question. This happens also, over the passage of history, rather than solely in the end times.

7 KINGDOMS - This view assumes the 7 kings represent 7 kingdoms with all their kings, over the passage of history.

7 KINGDOMS TRIB - This view assumes only those kingdoms in charge at the time of the 7 year tribulation, are represented by the 7 heads of the beast, and only those kings in charge at the time of the 7 year trib.

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I suspect the truth is woven throughout all these various approaches to the interpretation. Taking a centralized view, might be the best approach to interpretation - meaning that you look at the big picture, see which you believe fits the most conclusively into the overall picture, and leave any preconceived prejudices or notions behind.




[edit on 24-2-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by Areal51
The only thing that I really have to say is that when I read about folks likening politicians and political candidates to be the 'Anti-Christ", it provides me proof that we still have yet to fully emerge from the Dark Ages.

Awe come on Area51.. I'm not a cave man. rather, no cave man mentality.. or crusader for that matter. I agree, it can be musing to see so many people claiming this politician and this one are the antichrist, but usually the argument tends to be weak, not always. For example, some thought Bill Clinton was antichrist on the extreme right during his Presidency, and people though George Bush Jr. was antichrist. Many still do, many think he will declare emergency laws and take over as a dictator before elections. That is someone else's idea on the antichrist, in my opinion Bush has done too much dirt to stick around, he wants to retire and chill with his fat cash. He's made mention of it a few times already. Basically, the child has messed up his room and would just rather leave it for his mommy/daddy/brother/whoever to clean up the mess because it isn't fun to play in there anymore.

While the OP is provocative, it isn't compelling. It provokes unease among those who are predisposed to being influenced by irrational commentary, and it provokes dissension among those who would be rational. Hitler could have been the Anti-Chirst, so could have Idi Amin Dada. If the Anti-Christ were standing front and center, what would be the required proof that the Anti-Christ would be what one would suppose it to be? Would a fire breathing monster suffice? Or, would the murder of millions of people suffice?

You're right, lots of figures have come and gone through history, terrible men who killed millions untold. This lends itself to my theory that antichrist is not a single man, but a position, and not even necessarily just while one man is seated in that position. antichrist can be all dictators who've killed millions. Nostradamus, while not the best reference to cite, said there'd be three antichrists, the third being from Greater Arabia, and that mankind would exist after he comes and goes, just like Hitler did. Interesting concept.

This actually lends itself to the Obama antichrist theories. The third Antichrist from Greater Arabia, that means the area surrounding Arabia, the nearby countries as well. Immediately over the Gulf of Aden i believe is the country of Kenya, and Obama's father is Kenyan. It would make more sense if his father was Ethiopic or Somali, or Egyptian, but Kenya is close enough. The third antichrist prophecy also states he will enter Europe with a Blue Turban. This could be symbolic of a U.S. President who is secretly a Muslim, who eventually comes out of the closet, and in a gesture of peace, is officially converted to Islam inside Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa mosque! This is where he may proclaim himself Godlike in private with confidants, explaining that now that he is a U.S. Islamic President, that nothing will stop his World Domination, entering all the countries and markets there-of unopposed, where as before we'd be driven out at gunpoint. Damn, I must admit that it sure is easy to connect these dots if you stretch them a little.

The irrational only succumb to fear and this is why a great effort is continuously expended to maintain an irrational populace. If Jesus Christ or the Anti-Christ were standing front and center today no one would be able to tell the difference from one to the other. Never mind explaining why such powerful entities would bother running for a political election. The entire matter of religious figures running for public office is absurd. What would be the point?

Make no mistake, I am not afraid my friend, I am very prepared to 'meet my maker', to endure a tribulation should I be lukewarm, because my faith is strong, and thats what counts. There is no fear here. All which will come to pass must come to pass as directed by what some call fate and what other's call God's divine plan. In the end, its two expressions of the same thing which we cannot grasp because we cannot fully understand it, see it, detect it, measure it, bag it, sell it. As to your second point on why would an antichrist run for political office, well, the answer is simple and obvious. Beyond a simple man, he has no special power. Yes, you heard me right, the antichrist is just a man, perhaps a genius, but no superpowers. Yes, it says he will perform great wonders. This simply means he will do so through technology and through politics, these are the great wonders. Imagine .. stem cell research fully funded, all of a sudden we can grow organs for people from scratch, clone humans, all kinds of wild crap. What great wonders are these. Being just a man, he has to attain power to deceive and act out his will, simple enough.

Sometimes I think that the fear that many people carry is fear that they want to carry. That it's something that they choose to do. Doing so provides an excuse not to take responsibility. It provides the excuse to blame God. "Oh God, why?" That's what is commonly heard. Thing is, God has nothing to do with it. This is Man's deal, and Man is fully responsible for what happens regardless of what Man thinks or feels about it.

I fear God in one sense, that if I used my free will that was given to me to perform nothing but evil acts, I'd fear meeting my maker and being judged. But since I do not do this, I do not fear God beyond the simple, normal fears of natural disasters and other so called prophecies, like meteor impacts. Stuff most anyone is afraid of potentially happening, like Yellowstone erupting for instance. I never blame God for a thing because I know that one of the purposes of creation is to keep creation self sufficient and running on its' own. God does not have to perform maintenance on the server we call life except once every number of thousands of years you see. All which occurs inbetween is left to itself, man has free will. It gets kind of strange though, because despite our free will, God's prophecies end up being fulfilled through us human beings anyways. Yet, the will is still free. Functional paradox.

God does not care. And Man's condition is not God's fault. Unfortunately, many miss the beauty in that. Over the ages many have missed the beauty in that and so Men felt compelled to create artificial standards of beauty to alleviate their uncomfortable lack of understanding. Anyone who would believe that God, the all powerful, all knowing God would be held to the dictates of one book that was written by Men -- well, that person should contemplate herself or himself and God more.

I agree. I find great wisdom in all Monotheistic Religions, and even in Eastern Philosophical Religions such as Daosim and Buddhism. The answer does not lie in any single place, I just prefer to use one particular book, which I feel is most wise, but this does not mean the others arent wise. To another man, he may understand one of the other books better. If he gains understanding and faith, then so be it, this is good. I disagee that God does not care. We are like little receptors, little nerve endings of God if you will. It's the theory of collective conciousness, that conciousness is God's attempt to experience creation in all its' forms, and to come "down to our level" means to obey the rules set in stone here, aka physics and so forth, and be a normal man and experience it. The idea is, when we die, this conciousness either goes back to the Oneness, which is God, or enters a new receptor if you will. So in that sense we all have a spark, an essence of God in us, this lends itself to the Hasidic Jewish philosophy more however.

Thanks for the Proverbs quotes, it's one of my favorite books. :-)

[edit on 2/24/2008 by runetang]

Originally posted by St Udio
Mystery Babylon, the woman seated upon the beast, has been around since men first founded cities... so the woman isn't Hillary or any other
contemporary female, politician or religious leader, etc.

But I'm talking about the one prophesied in Revelation. This would fall into the position theory again. Mystery Babylon has always been around, but it will be the symbolism, the symbolic figure of the female leader which may be the case during these prophetic events. So while she may not be THE end all, be all Mystery Babylon, she may symbolically play the role at the end of times. Feel me?

the woman riding the beast empire is the antithesis of the Bride-of-Christ,
which is 'the Church'.
The whore, Mystery Babylon, is the counterpart for the anti-christ.
Just as the 'Bride' (Church) is the counterpart foir the returning 'Christ'

I've heard this theory too. I however feel that the Church, specifically the Roman Catholic Church, is not the Woman riding the Beast, it is the Beast itself. The resurrection of Rome. They blended the Original Christianity, untainted, with Paganism!! If that doesn't indicate something, I don't know what will. The Bride of Messiah will be all of the faithful people, the adherents, the followers, who embody the Church. You do not need a building .. or thousands of buildings, an organization or an official Chuch to be a part of the Church which is the Bride of Messiah. That is his reward for his teachings and sacrifice, that thousands of years later, that people are upholding his moral codes and other wisdom, and are laying down their lives instead of forcefully being converted to something evil or denounce their religion. If Jesus was martyred, then if a Christian is martyred also in a manner in which the Christian harms no one but is killed, is that not giving the same kind of sacrifice, the ultimate one, to God? These too are his Bride, because the martyrs exist in the Church in spirit.

[edit on 2/24/2008 by runetang]

reply to post by runetang
They have said in public many times that they were friends before running and they are going to be friends after its a crazy thought.