Who benefits the Most from 911?

Possibly the secret government, Illuminati, Bilderbergs I don�t know, but any of these greedy power hungry groups would surely benefit from the citizens of the United States losing some or all of our freedoms. Next year, 4 million National ID cards with a microchip embedded in the plastic will be issued, this card will automatically give secure rooms across the world; at hospitals its chip will one day summon medical records; used as a debit card; track the computers you use; record the doctors you see, and probably 1000 other things I can�t think of. Talk about �Big Brother�, soon it will be Big Sister, Big Mother, Big Father��.

I simply don�t want to give up freedom for �safety�.


[Edited on 15-2-2004 by kinglizard]

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by kinglizard]

The world is moving forward. With all the technology that is being integrate dinto our daily lives, such things are going to become a necessity. Seeing as how it's so easy to steal someone's identity, I actually find it a little reassuring that such measure to prove that 'you are you' would be implemented.

As for who benefits from 9/11, the terrorists that did it, obviously. They dealt a blow to the most powerful nation on earth, killing thousands of people. If that's not a pyschologcal hit and a morale boost to them, I have no idea what would be.

As given as "inalienable rights" granted by the US Constitution, which "freedoms" for "safety" would you specifically be giving up or have taken away?

Before answering, you do understand that the government has always maintained the ability to set limits and guidelines concerning such guaranteed "freedoms"......ie: freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc. These "freedoms" are not absolute and the government can, when deemed appropriate or necessary, can rightfully and sensibly limit them.



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Esoterica
The world is moving forward. With all the technology that is being integrate dinto our daily lives, such things are going to become a necessity. Seeing as how it's so easy to steal someone's identity, I actually find it a little reassuring that such measure to prove that 'you are you' would be implemented.

As for who benefits from 9/11, the terrorists that did it, obviously. They dealt a blow to the most powerful nation on earth, killing thousands of people. If that's not a pyschologcal hit and a morale boost to them, I have no idea what would be.

Yeah the government is getting more contro; over people with new technology everyday

Originally posted by Seekerof
As given as "inalienable rights" granted by the US Constitution, which "freedoms" for "safety" would you specifically be giving up or have taken away?

Before answering, you do understand that the government has always maintained the ability to set limits and guidelines concerning such guaranteed "freedoms"......ie: freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc. These "freedoms" are not absolute and the government can, when deemed appropriate or necessary, can rightfully and sensibly limit them.



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by Seekerof]

see, i dunno bout u, but i value my life. a lot. and id be willing to give up most freedoms if it wud keep me alive. HOWEVER, that doesnt mean 'oh, its code orange, u cant talk # about the govt, u cant congregate, etc.' like simple things, little things like patriot act for a bit. nothin big.
i think the ID card idea is a boon. i and other talked about it here. just think, all the information already in the public domain being put to use for your personal advantage. its not infringing on ur freedoms in anyway, unless you count ur freedom to waste a lot of time filling out forms.

Might want to re-read what I wrote. The information that I wrote is given in a variety of written forms. Government, Political Science, and History classes, highschool and/or college level cover this stuff.

Its apparent that "freedoms" is a subjective thing? I have noticed no infringements on my "freedoms"....have you? I am able to lock my doors at night with no fear at all of the "government" busting them down.
BTW, you can talk all the trash you wish about the government...hell, you can burn a flag if you want, you can call the president a hoe, faggot, liar, bastard, etc. for which you couldn't do a few decades ago without a ration of crap or threats.....
You then talk about "value of Life".....who doesn't value their respective live's? What does the "value of Life" have to do with "freedoms"? Are you aware that you have "freedoms" that half this world's population does not? What "freedoms" are exactly being removed or taken away from you?



regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
As given as "inalienable rights" granted by the US Constitution, which "freedoms" for "safety" would you specifically be giving up or have taken away?

Before answering, you do understand that the government has always maintained the ability to set limits and guidelines concerning such guaranteed "freedoms"......ie: freedom of speech, press, assembly, etc. These "freedoms" are not absolute and the government can, when deemed appropriate or necessary, can rightfully and sensibly limit them.



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 15-2-2004 by Seekerof]

Weather or not a particular freedom is guaranteed by the Bill of Rights is not the most important issue, losing ANY freedom is the issue. Like it or not our future is going to be with a suspicious and paranoid government, and that leads to all sorts of monitoring and tracking of the general public. During World War II we imprisoned tens of thousands Japanese American citizens in Internment Camps, I think most of them lost their homes and/or businesses never to regain them. And for the most part they were all innocent.

What "freedoms" are exactly being removed or taken away from you?


regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Might want to re-read what I wrote. The information that I wrote is given in a variety of written forms. Government, Political Science, and History classes, highschool and/or college level cover this stuff.

Its apparent that "freedoms" is a subjective thing? I have noticed no infringements on my "freedoms"....have you? I am able to lock my doors at night with no fear at all of the "government" busting them down.
BTW, you can talk all the trash you wish about the government...hell, you can burn a flag if you want, you can call the president a hoe, faggot, liar, bastard, etc. for which you couldn't do a few decades ago without a ration of crap or threats.....
You then talk about "value of Life".....who doesn't value their respective live's? What does the "value of Life" have to do with "freedoms"? Are you aware that you have "freedoms" that half this world's population does not? What "freedoms" are exactly being removed or taken away from you?



regards
seekerof

allow me to say this. ouch. very ouch.

in response to ur final question, none. im a whole-hearted support of bush, and although i may not agree with his stance on gays and stem cells, i think/know when it comes to iraq and space, hes got the best plans of anyone else out there. im one of oh, 3, in my school of 3000+ who thinks that way. i feel no freedoms taken away, none at all. i simply wud be ok with it.

Originally posted by Seekerof
What "freedoms" are exactly being removed or taken away from you?


regards
seekerof

Privacy, USA Patriot Act, which swept through Congress last year, erased most of our rights. Now the government can keep watch on your phone calls, your Internet use and other aspects of your personal life regardless of whether you are the subject of an investigation or suspected of wrongdoing.

Privacy, USA Patriot Act, which swept through Congress last year, erased most of our rights. Now the government can keep watch on your phone calls, your Internet use and other aspects of your personal life regardless of whether you are the subject of an investigation or suspected of wrongdoing.

Search warrants no longer require credible or hard evidence to be granted, they just need to be suspicious.

Originally posted by AD5673

Yeah the government is getting more contro; over people with new technology everyday

Or rather, technology is pushing the government to implement more policies.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Seekerof
What "freedoms" are exactly being removed or taken away from you?


regards
seekerof

Privacy, USA Patriot Act, which swept through Congress last year, erased most of our rights. Now the government can keep watch on your phone calls, your Internet use and other aspects of your personal life regardless of whether you are the subject of an investigation or suspected of wrongdoing.

Privacy, USA Patriot Act, which swept through Congress last year, erased most of our rights. Now the government can keep watch on your phone calls, your Internet use and other aspects of your personal life regardless of whether you are the subject of an investigation or suspected of wrongdoing.

Search warrants no longer require credible or hard evidence to be granted, they just need to be suspicious.

internet use they already cud, easily. phone calls, it just shortens the time it takes to get ur records.
search warrants? 4th amendment - "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." no laws gonna circumvent that mother

In answer to the question "who benefits the most from 9/11"

The clear winner is Israel

One that is obvious is my right to privacy. Government monitoring has gone up ten fold. On the surface I have not seen any noticeable change to my "freedoms". They say it's to keep us "safe". But take a look through out history. The more control the government has the more likely they will abuse those powers. I am all for having a safe community. But this can be achieved with out such a bill as the Patriot Act 1 & 2.

When the government takes 30% of my paycheck & a certain portion of that goes to black projects it disturbs me. For being in a "free" country it is my opinion our gov keeps way too many secrets. They've been involved in too many government coups to over through democratically elected governments around the world.

What freedoms have I personally lost? The freedom of knowledge. Do you really believe half the stuff the read or watch in the news? When they�re always so many sides to the story that many times aren't covered. History is recorded by the victors. He who controls the past controls the futures. He who controls the present controls the past.

Originally posted by Esoterica
The world is moving forward.

Towards what? More white supremacy and KKKorporate control?

With all the technology that is being integrate dinto our daily lives, such things are going to become a necessity.

Bull-s*it. 'Nuff said.

Seeing as how it's so easy to steal someone's identity, I actually find it a little reassuring that such measure to prove that 'you are you' would be implemented.

The real criminals are usually the ones with power like government officials and such; not the guy who makes $6.50 an hour trying to write fraudulent checks for groceries or beer.

As for who benefits from 9/11, the terrorists that did it, obviously.

You're right. Mr. Bush, Dick, Dumbsfeld, AshKKKroft and that uncle Tom Colin Powell achieved mad ends with that little stunt they pulled.

They dealt a blow to the most powerful nation on earth, killing thousands of people. If that's not a pyschologcal hit and a morale boost to them, I have no idea what would be.

I really hope you're joking with all this non-sense. Especially with a name like "Esoterica" .




ONE

Originally posted by Ashlar
In answer to the question "who benefits the most from 9/11"

The clear winner is Israel

i dont think i quite follow your logic. if by 'benefit' u mean suffer a more constant stream of death and destruction, then i think i got ya. but if by 'benefit' u mean 'benefit', then im at a loss.

their enemies have been struck down as a result of 9/11

ok, i get u now, and i sorta agree. theyve bin struck down, majorly, but the attacks have increased.
long run, i guess ur right.
short run, they be #ed up the a-hole

search warrants? 4th amendment - "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." no laws gonna circumvent that mother
Section 215 of the Patriot Act is not limited to libraries and bookstores by the way. What it does is it allows the FBI to go to a judge to get a search warrant, now unlike the law before 911 no probable cause must be established. The subject of the search warrant need not be an individual that is the target of the investigation� all the government has to do is establish that the information they are seeking is relevant to an on going investigation. What self-respecting FBI agent couldn�t establish some relevancy if there�re going to the trouble of getting a search warrant?

ACLU Files Challenge to Section 215 of USA Patriot Act

"upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
"all the government has to do is establish that the information they are seeking is relevant to an on going investigation."
same thing dude. and it alwasy was that way. if u want to bust into a place, and u get a reliable tip, thats enough for a warrant. this bitch list doesnt point out any difference.
show me the section in the patriot act where it changes the law, and ill agree. until then, im for it.