The Christmas tree is masonry…..

I won't disagree on the Ra and "Amen" connection there; but, you have the tree bit confused.

Use any Bible version you prefer and look here:
Jeremiah 10: 2-5

If you don't own a Bible - I found this King James one online for you - www.blueletterbible.org...

The verse explicitly describes a Christmas tree, all the way from cutting it down as part of tradition to decking it with gold and silver, and fastening it with nails and hammer to keep it from moving.

reply to post by andre18


I've been thinking just like you since I have watched Zeitgeist.
Whats weird is that it makes so much more sense to me than what
the Bible was taught to me before!

zeitgeistmovie.com...

Christianity and more importantly the adoption of Christmas predates Masonry.

I've shown that Germany celebrated the Christmas tree with a star in 1600, that’s the same time masonry began......though I'm yet to find the exact origins of the Christmas star from what year did it begin....The Freemasons began in Europe Scotland as is possible the star also came from Scotland..
All I've been able to so far find is that it was the germens that brought the star in the tree to America......
en.wikipedia.org...

Freemasonry is a fraternal organisation that arose from obscure origins (theorised to be anywhere from the time of the building of King Solomon's Temple to the mid-1600s).

Please take no offense but that is saying because there is a cloud that looks like an elephant it must be somehow symbolism for some obscure things to do with elephants sent from a god.

So you’re saying it’s just a coincidence that the star shines as does the eye…?
For me it’s too much of a coincidence…..the shining is to do with Sirius….which is the brightest star in the night sky…..(again all to do with light) the all seeing eye represents the sun…..or god’s eye.

reply to post by andre18


I feel like your entire post is reaching much too far out there to try to tie together the different ropes.

First off, the Christmas Tree is not Masonic, it is much, MUCH older than the Masons are as an organization, much older than Christianity itself.

The Christmas Tree comes from Germanic Paganism from the tribes inhabiting Germany during the first two millenia B.C. (2000-0 B.C.), and onward until Christianization took place by the Roman Empire into Catholicism. Just like Easter has Bunny rabbits and other pagan symbols, and represents some pagan goddess, and just like Christmas is right near the winter solstice, so too did some of the traditions carry on from paganism as well. One of these was the act of taking a tree, placing it in your dwelling and decorating it. Then, the night before the particular day of celebration, you placed gifts for family members under the tree. This was before Christ even walked the Earth. This is why Catholicism is a mixture of Christianity and Paganism.

I guess this thread got popular by people refuting you, lol.

I've shown that Germany celebrated the Christmas tree with a star in 1600, that’s the same time masonry began......though I'm yet to find the exact origins of the Christmas star from what year did it begin....The Freemasons began in Europe Scotland as is possible the star also came from Scotland..
All I've been able to so far find is that it was the germens that brought the star in the tree to America....

It's not that, the whole tree thing is a pagan ritual which predates Christianity by at least one thousand years. You're not looking far back enough in history. Not Germans as a nationality, Germanic pagan tribes that eventually became the frontier of the Roman Empire.

[edit on 2/3/2008 by runetang]

reply to post by runetang


The Christmas tree can go back 10,000 years if you want and that makes no difference….what I’m trying to find out is when did the Christmas tree begin having the star of Sirius mounted at the top……

It strikes too much of a resemblance to the Illuminati pyramid of the all seeing eye…..

It's not that, the whole tree thing is a pagan ritual which predates Christianity by at least one thousand years. You're not looking far back enough in history. Not Germans as a nationality, Germanic pagan tribes that eventually became the frontier of the Roman Empire.

I'm not trying to date when the tree first came into holy celebrations like Paganism....I'm looking for when the star was included.....as I’ve shown it was the Germans whom took the star concept to America in the 1600's. But when did they start having the star at the top of the tree in the first place is the question…


[edit on 3-2-2008 by andre18]

[edit on 3-2-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18

So you’re saying it’s just a coincidence that the star shines as does the eye…?
For me it’s too much of a coincidence…..the shining is to do with Sirius….which is the brightest star in the night sky…..(again all to do with light) the all seeing eye represents the sun…..or god’s eye.

Your, of course, welcome to come to that conclusion.

But even after you say that I see an atlernate explaination having nothing to do with conspiracy.

Knowledge is often equated to light.
You know enlighenment.
And an all seeing eye would of matter of course shine in the "light" of knowledge it does after all see everything as it name says.
Which of course "god's eye" is also supposed to see everything and thusly have knowledge of everything.
Nothing to do with Sirius.
You can find a large amount of coincidence in every event and etc but still be no real connection.
Unless you think everything in the world is preplanned, which I would have to vastly disagree, but some say that and there is plausability there.
But to put it into some old guys immortal words
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
What I am trying to say symbols can be ripped from older beliefs and yet have little if nothing to do with what it was taken from.
Look at the swastika.

Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. An ancient symbol, it occurs mainly in the cultures that are in modern day India and the surrounding area; sometimes as a geometrical motif and sometimes as a religious symbol. It has long been widely used in major world religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism.
The swastika was appropriated as a Nazi symbol and gained further association with the Third Reich as the Reich gained influence. Though once commonly used over much of the world without stigma, over time the symbol has become a controversial motif, especially in the Western world.

The word swastika is derived from the Sanskrit svastika (in Devanagari, स्वस्तिक), meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck.
It is composed of su- (cognate with Greek ευ-, eu-), meaning "good, well" and asti, a verbal abstract to the root as "to be" (cognate with the Romance copula, coming ultimately from the Proto-Indo European root *h1es-); svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka intensifies the verbal meaning or confers the sense of 'beneficial', and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word first appears in the Classical Sanskrit (in the Ramayana and Mahabharata epics).
The Sanskrit term has been in use in English since 1871, replacing gammadion (from Greek γαμμάδιον).

Source:Wikipedia Entry: Swastika

But I talk about that as the Germans breathed a different meaning into it and more or less hijacked the image.






[edit on 3-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

I am happy at least you start using Wiki in your research.

As for the star, why haven't you tried searching "christmas star"....

The first link to come up is Star of Bethlehem

It pretty much gives an answer to all of your questions.

The star was put on top of the pagan tree to christianize it and make a reference to Jesus

It's as simple as that.

reply to post by khunmoon

The star was put on top of the pagan tree to christianize it and make a reference to Jesus

And there you go......the star refers to Jesus, whom is the sun.....doesn't get more simpler the that.... Jesus is the son of god, Jesus is the sun, the sun according to the Illuminati is god’s eye…the eye being the all seeing eye……etc etc…

And yet I’m still searching for the date of when the star first began to be put on the tree……

[edit on 3-2-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by khunmoon


I brought up the idea that the star atop the tree represents the star that the Magi followed earlier in this thread.

The OP never responded, because it wasn't the answer he is looking for.

Don't you know? The star is definitely placed atop the tree as a secret message that the evil Illuminati Masons have infilitrated every Christian home without anyone's knowledge. I can't believe you can't see that!! [please note my sarcasm].

Hey, did you ever notice that diamonds sparkle? Kind of reminds me of how stars shine. Members of royalty were crowns with diamonds in them on top of their heads. That must be an Illuminati reference to the all-seeing eye, and proof that all royalty are intertwined with the Masons!

Makes about as much sense to me as the original argument.

reply to post by andre18


I have to question the plausibility of the 3 wise magi following Sirius, even assuming that the incident is factual as depicted in the traditions. Sirius would be in the same place at the same time every year, so if they headed toward Sirius every year they would have found either too many messianic infants, or, none almost all the time (depending on their search criteria), unless by coincidence the year they got the Follow-Sirius meme was the exact timely birth-of-Christ year. It seems intuitively more plausible that a star-inspired journey would acquire impressive urgency from a new, unprecedented, probably transient sky-type-thing, like a supernova or a comet. Something that's always there doesn't usually give you the urge to do something different from what you did the last time you saw it. Familiarity breeds contempt, there you go, a cliche.

OP, try to not see the star representing SIRIUS, but something much older,.... THE LIGHT, the light one sees when enlightened, especially after eating a mushroom that grows under pines.... havent seen that vid we keep mentioning have you? it will, as we all say, let you "in" on what that tree, star, stockings, santa, easter, and all that information most seem to know, but you don't.

Hey, did you ever notice that diamonds sparkle? Kind of reminds me of how stars shine. Members of royalty were crowns with diamonds in them on top of their heads. That must be an Illuminati reference to the all-seeing eye, and proof that all royalty are intertwined with the Masons!

Yeah yeah, I get it......so it's just a coincidence then
Alright then.....I thought I had something with this but I guess I don't....

I have to question the plausibility of the 3 wise magi following Sirius, even assuming that the incident is factual as depicted in the traditions. Sirius would be in the same place at the same time every year, so if they headed toward Sirius every year they would have found either too many messianic infants, or, none almost all the time (depending on their search criteria), unless by coincidence the year they got the Follow-Sirius meme was the exact timely birth-of-Christ year.

Sailors used stars to navigate their way through the ocean....

It seems intuitively more plausible that a star-inspired journey would acquire impressive urgency from a new, unprecedented, probably transient sky-type-thing, like a supernova or a comet. Something that's always there doesn't usually give you the urge to do something different from what you did the last time you saw it. Familiarity breeds contempt, there you go, a cliche.

the three wise men / magi, aren’t actually real, they're just a representation of the three kings constellation.... the three kings are three stars that during the days between the 22-25 of December, they follow Sirius until they directly a-line with it and the sun..... and so you see, the magi follow the star to locate Jesus the son of god, as the three kings follow Sirius which a-line the sun on the 25th.... Check out Zeitgeist for more information....there should be a link in one of the posts in this thread....

[edit on 3-2-2008 by andre18]

Zeitgeist uses the video and information directly from this one,..... and leaves out the death, fear, and destruction that the movie you keep quoting has....


video.google.com...

You seem to be assuming that almost all trees have stars on, a wide part of the population of the UK for example, and where Masonry really took off and was in essence born in theory (and therefore spread to the New World when the colonists went over there) decorate the tree with faries as most people have said already, and as said, seems to be related to the personification of the fay that would have been thought to inhabit the tree itself.

It IS possible that a lot of people in the US decorate their tree with a star, but then the symbolism would have to be consistent for it to be a bit dodgy. What you need to ask is really how many people from the US use a star instead of the traditional fairy and how many points the star has IMO.

It sounds more like you don't want to listen to reason and want to be reassured your theory is correct, when the evidence distinctly points out that the tree, the star and the fairy were all pre-dated before Masons.

However... Masons trace most of their roots back to the Templar and Egyptian societies, perhaps it would be wise to try finding out the customs of these, and as someone posted above, it was well known and used in the Middle East BEFORE Jesus that such was a relatively common occurance for it to be suggested as heresy/pagan.

I think you have an interesting theory, but there isn't enough evidence to stick it to what you want it to be. You're dead set on proving a link to Masons and the tree and star, when in reality, you should be trying to prove it has nothing to do with Jesus and is essentially a very old custom/ritual that was made in a different secret society that eventually BECAME the Masons of today. Don't get hung up on the ASE (All Seeing Eye) symbology, let the discussion wander into the older cults and societies from where all this began and maybe then we can prove a link.

If they have been conditioning us for centuries, then we have to step back and not view it from the start of 'Masonry' but from their pre-cursors because these would have been the people who thought it up since its far TOO old to be Masonic, but that doesn't mean it isn't esoteric and actually related to societies that were BEFORE the Masons. See what I'm getting at?

reply to post by ejsaunders


Yeah....I guess I hadn't thought that far ahead....but as I've already explained anyway seeing how the star really has nothing to do with masonry or the knights templar etc, but has more to do with the fact that I basically forgot that stars themselves shine.....they twinkle etc, twinkle twinkle little star etc, so when a star is put up on the tree, all the shining of the star is representing is the basic twinkle that logically stars do.....

I wouldn't of even started this thread if I had come to that conclusion earlier on......Although if you’d like to back up this theory with your own personal ideas…..no probs….

You agree Jesus represents, the sun? The LIGHT? The light one sees when they know the truth? So the star doesnt reporesent the Light? the truth? enlightenment of truth? of is it masonic? twinkle twinkle? or the "brightest" star? hmm... IMO it it the 'light" one would see when eating mushrooms and 1 with nature? hmm.... we mau never know... ever think that star means what ever YOU want it to mean, not what it means to them? Hitler used a symbol that was very old, but we see it now and think Nazi, is that what that symbol means? That's the logic I see you using to describe the star, they use it now, must be evil!

[edit on 6-2-2008 by KanehBosm]

Also, reading the bible it suggests that (I'm a believer in the theory, but some people can take it or leave it) that BOTH Jesus and Ha'Satan were actually possibly the sons of God, because they both hold the office of 'MorningStar' amongst various other titles both seemed to have, but one of them fell and lost the office and therefore lost his claim to sit with the Father and his brother forever. Jesus was sent to earth purely because he was the brother who didn't fall and therefore it couldn't be anyone else, Ha'Satan HAD to try and convert him and fail so it would show him that he failed and lost everything.

Thus, both of them are Son's and Lucifer (if you prescribe that as a MorningStar he was, and is the 'God of this world') is personified as the sun and is worshipped by a LOT of the older religions, such as Atlantis (possibly his earthly realm) and others that have come and gone but seemingly have gained a LOT of worshippers and power in small spaces of time (f.e. the Swastika is a sun symbol). I'm of the opinion that we have a very dim view of how everything is connected - why can't he be the sun, it sounds pretty hellish, and who's to say that its not ALSO the center of the earth? Just because we can't comprehend it, doesn't mean God can't.

So, its more likely that the Son=Sun reference is to Lucifer as the Morningstar that fell and is the Bringer of Light than the other Morningstar that didn't fall (i.e. Jesus).

I just realised I missed some of my theory off the last post and now I can't edit it. Ok, here's the rest:

So, this would in theory support your idea that it is esoteric in origin, given that most conspiracy theories concerning Masons/Templar/etc societies generally suggest they worship Ha'Satan/Lucifer (not that I'm saying I believe it, I did 200%, but I'm no longer convinced that the Masons in particular are as bad as made out).

So, that would be a suitable way of getting Luciferian symbols inside the home of those who wouldn't even consider it if they knew, but I'm still not convinced it was the Masons who thought up the whole thing, this is far older than they are, but as I say, I think it is almost certainly esoteric in some way and that most people don't know the real meaning behind it even if it's something as simple as the Tree of Life or something from mythology.

reply to post by ejsaunders

You also got to remember particularly with ancient stuff, a Luciferian type figure is usually associated with Zoroastrian type religions (aka Abrahamic you know Judism, Christianity, Islam, etc).

Case in point.
Inpu aka Anubis. In recent movies and literature has been demonized by popular media as a dark evil (or luciferian) role. Yet to the ancient Egyptians he was a highly beneficial (well hate to use the word) lawyer. Who protected a departed soul and saw to it he had his "day in court" in which the person's heart damned or saved them. As well as the god of mummification.


[edit on 7-2-2008 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by andre18


ER.. just to give a Masonic insight..

The Pyramid is not Masonic friend, sorry to tell you. Neither is a Tree.. and Christmas holds no importance to Masonry.. or Stars on top of Pyramids..

As others have said.. the Christmas Tree (the Christmas date all together actually) is Pagan, and the Tree comes from "Tree worshipers" as Christians called them, of Germanic nations.

Christianity is really just a mutated mutt of European religions.