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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
not really....hemmingway was a genius, yet he drank more heavily than even hitchens.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
it's not really, check the references.
Check this out:
Vermiform appendix
ok....i couldn't really find enough in the way of references to substantiate a lot of what this wiki said...and that's how i tend to look at things from wiki.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
What about the money your parents invested in your education?
i don't see anyone's rights there...
What about their hopes for you?
again, not an issue of rights
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Actually, I meant anything from tapping them, to poking them, to punching them in the face.
well...tapping and poking might be playful and fun, that one depends on the situation
punching someone in the face...unless it's in self defense or the context of an organized even in which face punching is kosher (like boxing), is a direct infringement of a person's right to security
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
What if you engraved some vulgar comment on the back of your head? What if your grandmother is hurt by this?
then she needs to lighten up. my right in this instance overrides her right.
Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Madness you have too many qoutes at once, you got to minimize them alittle please...
...no, that's my style and i'm sticking to it
WELL OF COURSE.
Originally posted by babloyi
To melatonin: I think you'll find that there is a difference between something having 'no absolute purpose' and 'absolutely no purpose'. The writer is not claiming that vestigial means that something has no purpose. You'll notice that the writer is discussing various theories brought forward by others about the appendix, not his own theories.
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
I have seen cancer cured by prayer alone when all hope was lost..... but oh well it will never change...
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
why do scientists call it a safehouse for good bacteria melotin? And say it does have a use?
The most common explanation is that the appendix is a vestigial structure with no absolute purpose. In The Story of Evolution, Joseph McCabe argued thus:
The vermiform appendage—in which some recent medical writers have vainly endeavoured to find a utility—is the shrunken remainder of a large and normal intestine of a remote ancestor. This interpretation of it would stand even if it were found to have a certain use in the human body. Vestigial organs are sometimes pressed into a secondary use when their original function has been lost.
Originally posted by babloyi
Melatonin, I'm not sure if you realise, but that article I quoted wasn't putting forward a specific 'interpretation'. It was explaining the appendix, and the various theories as to it's use. Let me quote here the part that you took offense to:
Joseph McCabe said that it doesn't matter if a utility for the vermiform appendage is found, because that doesn't nullify the interpretation that it is vestigial.
BTW, I'd be really curious to see some proof on exactly how the assumption that the appendix is a vestigial organ came about. The article doesn't really go into that. It goes on and on about the validity and the misconception of 'vestigiality'.
Originally posted by melatonin
Here the pagesayssaid that because an article proposes a hypothetical immune function for the appendix, that this 'contradicts' the evolutionary interpretation of vestigiality.
Originally posted by melatonin
Joseph McCabe said that it doesn't matter if a utility for the vermiform appendage is found, because that doesn't nullify the interpretation that it is vestigial.
Great. So you agree with me? The article notes McCabe's musings, then completely ignores them later by saying that proposing a function contradicts vestigiality. That's why it needed fixing. Wouldn't want this error to keep bouncing round the intertubz.
Originally posted by melatonin
The article MIMS posted contains what you need.
www.talkorigins.org...
Originally posted by babloyi
But it is not hypothetical. Calling it such won't change that. And if the immune function turns out to be the main function of the appendix (as opposed to an incidental function, coming much after it's original use was finished), then (along with the other reasons cited), this WOULD contradict the idea that it is vestigial.
No, what I believe is irrelevant. I was talking about what Joseph McCabe said. And as I mentioned before, the article isn't (or wasn't) putting forward one view (either Joseph McCabes, or anyone other person). The article doesn't (or didn't) 'ignore' anything. It had several perspectives. This doesn't mean it was contradictory.
Joseph McCabe said that it doesn't matter if a utility for the vermiform appendage is found, because that doesn't nullify the interpretation that it is vestigial.
No, it doesn't, really. which is what I said. It goes into a great amount of detail about the vestigiality of the appendix, which really isn't what I'm talking about (but you seem to be repeatedly bringing up). It attempts to connect the function of the caecum of various animals with the original function of the appendix. I do not see info on these early humans.
BTW, I'd be really curious to see some proof on exactly how the assumption that the appendix is a vestigial organ came about. The article doesn't really go into that. It goes on and on about the validity and the misconception of 'vestigiality'.
But hey, whatever. You can ignore modern science to stuff that fits your beliefs. Theists do that everyday. I have a textbook, you have a textbook, and those aren't as easily changed as a wiki.
Originally posted by melatonin
The article that the wiki used is actually a theoretical paper, not an empirical paper. It's a hypothesis at this point.
Originally posted by melatonin
But even if it is eventually well supported, it wouldn't contradict vestigiality at all. Again, just a misunderstanding of what vestigial is. The incidental functions will be the main function now. What are the main functions of Ostrich wings? Balance and sexual display. But it's still a vestigial wing.
Originally posted by melatonin
And that's the evolutionary position. Therefore to say that the appendix does have some function is neither here nor there to the idea the appendix is vestigial.
Originally posted by melatonin
You've just said you want info showing that the appendix is vestigial! Earlier:
Originally posted by melatonin
Ha! Cheek. I've read the scientific article the wiki uses for the hypothesis of immune function. You've just read a wiki which contained misinformation. Well done you!
Originally posted by melatonin
I think we'll let the discussion carry on about Sharpton and Hitchens. On topic, Hitchens is like a demolition machine in debate. Although, I don't agree with him on many things.