We lost real people on the 9-11 planes...right?? Or was it all fake?

reply to post by IvanZana


Just a question, did you stop to check the apartment building near that address in Port Richey? To make sure that he did not live in an apartment at that address?

oops thought about this one just after I hit post.....Are you sure that if that IS a private residence that it wasnt friends of his where he stayed till he bought a house for himself?????? I know when I move, the last thing on my mind is to run to DMV, spend a few hours in HELL, just to update my address on MY driver's license.......

What is most interesting about the passengers of all the planes were that most of them were rich enough to own their own private planes or even a fleet.

Another peculiar piece of evidence is from flight 93. It is a Florida Drivers Licence. This man goes by the name John Talignani.

Original source picture from the Moussaoui trial exhibit. www.rcfp.org...

John Talignani (August 31, 1927 - September 11, 2001), retired bartender. He lived in Staten Island, New York. For 20 years Talignani worked as a bartender and steward at the Palm Restaurant in Manhattan.

At the age of 74, he was killed in the crash of United Airlines Flight 93 during the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. He was heading to San Francisco to claim the body of his stepson, Alan Zykofsky, who had died at 40 in a car accident during his honeymoon.

He was survived by his sister, Alice Bertorelli; and two stepsons, Mitchell Zykofsky, 45, and Glenn Zykofsky, 38.

www.sep11memories.org...



Is someone smart enough to tackle this one?


Provide sources. Back up.



John Talignani's drivers license has some other oddity/discrepancies..
(besides the 3 year old expiration date)
The address of 8611 Huntsman Lane, Port Richey FL 34668-2019, was actually the address belonging to:
Louis & Denise Crisci, who purchased this property in 1988 and sold it in 1994 to their neighbor Charles & Almae Mitchell (reference: L577 BEAR CRK U 4 PB23 PGS135&136&137&13)

Three years previous..

On 02/08/1985, John & Selma Talignani bought 7202 Bramblewood Drive, Port Richey, FL 34668-6911 (reference: L337 ORCHID LK VL U 5 PB 23 PGS 57TO59)

www.pascoclerk.com...

The planes that hit the WTC buildings were either real planes or they were imaginary planes. Since holography at the needed tech. level simply doesn't and can't exist, the notion the planes were holograms is simply silly.

Unfortunately those real passengers died on that day when the real planes hit the real buildings. There is ZERO evidence to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by jfj123
The planes that hit the WTC buildings were either real planes or they were imaginary planes. Since holography at the needed tech. level simply doesn't and can't exist, the notion the planes were holograms is simply silly.

Unfortunately those real passengers died on that day when the real planes hit the real buildings. There is ZERO evidence to suggest otherwise.

Not saying 911 was a cover up or not.

But remember.

People fake their deaths for numerous reasons. It happens. You must ask, if paid enough money, would a person fake their demise?

If someone offered me 10 million, a house, and a new identity, I have no idea what I would do. Money talks, money changes a person's wiring, money silences.

Or if threatened would people allow their names to be used, and accept money as a silencer?

If my life and the lifes of my family were threatened, would I fake my death for another's agenda. Probably.

If you look at all the facts, and not the opinions of the 911 commission, you start to question.

Who benefited? Who still benefits? Who lost something?

Military Industry benefited (Halliburton) The owner of the WTC benefited (due to insurance policies taken months before, Put Options benefited many, terrorists goals of changing American life have been fulfilled. The Media benefited from Ad Revenue from 9/11, the wars, so on. Oh yeah and the flight instructor who was suspicious of the 911 hijackers benefited with a payment of 5 million. When 911 rescue workers are dying off.

Who lost out after 9/11?

American Citizens lost freedoms, lots of them. Americans lost their lives (if not in the planes, then in the towers, and afterwards in Iraq and Afganistan).
The world has lost out, after embracing the US after 911, we came back and pimp slapped them.

The Why it happened is understandable. Not so much from an Islamic standpoint, but more so from a elitist control standpoint.

They needed a new Pearl Harbor. They got that and then some.

The Pennsylvania crash, was their battle cry to whip up Military numbers, same with Pat Tillman, whip up military numbers.

Was there a reason his funeral was broadcast on all of the News Channels?

Yes. It is all connected.

This has been in planning since before the days of President Wilson. It garnered strength during the days after Eisenhower.

We saw it in 1941, We saw it in 1963. We saw in it 2001. We see it everyday.

Just control people, nothing to see here, just move on and stay stupid. Or your a traitor.

Originally posted by squidboy

Originally posted by jfj123
The planes that hit the WTC buildings were either real planes or they were imaginary planes. Since holography at the needed tech. level simply doesn't and can't exist, the notion the planes were holograms is simply silly.

Unfortunately those real passengers died on that day when the real planes hit the real buildings. There is ZERO evidence to suggest otherwise.

Not saying 911 was a cover up or not.

I do actually believe there has been some type of cover up. My thought is that the government is trying to keep their incompetence a secret.

But remember.

People fake their deaths for numerous reasons. It happens. You must ask, if paid enough money, would a person fake their demise?

If someone offered me 10 million, a house, and a new identity, I have no idea what I would do. Money talks, money changes a person's wiring, money silences.

So the government received 100% compliance? Not one person who agreed has decided not to cooperate? or even decided to contact a loved one? Not one person has been recognized on tv, newspaper, internet or just out and about? Not one person who organized that massive "witness protection" program has made a mistake or had a guilty conscience?

And what about all the people who died in the buildings? Did they really die or have they also been relocated too?

If you look at all the facts, and not the opinions of the 911 commission, you start to question.

But what would be the point of keeping the most dangerous people in the world, alive? I say the most dangerous because if they testified, they could topple the conspiracy and those involved.
If the government really did it, why not just let those people die on the planes to make the story more believable?

Who benefited? Who still benefits? Who lost something?

Does it really matter? The current administration does not care what the american public thinks so why create this elaborate hoax when they have shown they will do what they want anyway?

They needed a new Pearl Harbor. They got that and then some.

Again, if they wanted to win over the american public that might be true but polls show that what the current administration is doing goes against the vast majority of the american public. They continue to do what they want regardless of public opinion showing it does not and has never mattered.

Was there a reason his funeral was broadcast on all of the News Channels?

Yes, he was a celeb. Same reason Heath Ledger's death has been broadcast everywhere.

This has been in planning since before the days of President Wilson. It garnered strength during the days after Eisenhower.
This would mean a massive conspiracy involving 10 of thousands of people over generations. This is not realistic to think that not one would blow the whistle. A good guide to go by is as follows:
The larger the perceived conspiracy, the less likely it is true.

So once again I state that real planes hit the real buildings with real passengers. No holograms.

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
Buenos Dias, Paldori. Una pregunta sobre El Pentagon.

¿Por que usted peinsa esta evidencia alterative es mas creíble?

Mire por favor -- para su consideración:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hello again,

ok, then. I reckon there is some evidence in these videos that I had not seen.

But I listened to the Control Tower Director of the Madrid Airport in an interview who declared (and this a person that for no reason should get into muddy waters as he only can get problems by doing so) that, due to some personal contacts in USA (he worked there for a time), many airport staff in usa believed that those flights (both planes that hit the WTC and flight 93) were plenty of unusual details regarding control notes, routes and many other daily things that were not fulfilled as they should have been. Also he said (againstthe evidence in this video) that no pieces of the engines and the metal parts of the tyres had been ever found, and those are pieces that never get lost or completely destroyed or melted in a crash.

But, let's believe that a plane crashed into the Pentagon. Is that all the damage a plane can do in a stone building? Was it just casual that it hit in the new constructed area? Why the images offered by the Pentagon cameras are cut so you cannot see the full sequence? If two planes were able to destroy two buildings that were constructed for resisting those type of impacts, why the Pentagon resisted when it was not intended to do so?
Why no militar plane was sent inmediatly' They did not know whether there were other planes to crash? It coudl have been a massive attack with 15 planes? NOOO; they did know how many, how and when they would hit.

By the way, some of the phone calls (supposedly) made from inside flight 93 said like this: "hello, xxx, this is Michael Smith (just an example)". Would you call your wife, girfriend, boyfriend, father, mother, brother or sister and identify you using your surname? Pretty stupid mistake, but clear to me... and, another thig. Next time you fly, try make a phone call home and tell me about the result...

omg
so many people died...so fast...

this is the part of the equation that I always seem to forget.
the part that makes this so much more than just a discusion.

if for once we could just be "Told the Truth"
just once..... would be nice....

We have been lied to so so much that no wonder
we all scream CONSPIRACY, CONSPIRACY.

I`m just rambling because this is a subject
that I just don`t know what to say except
that who ever is really behind all this is
truly EVIL, if there is such a word.

Also he said (againstthe evidence in this video) that no pieces of the engines and the metal parts of the tyres had been ever found, and those are pieces that never get lost or completely destroyed or melted in a crash

Maybe should look at these

Jet engines





Landing gear



Neat trick how they got the landing gear to stick in that piece of building



Also when Mark Bingham called his mother using his full name - he was
calling his uncles house where she was staying, not his mother's house

Also if phone calls are faked how did they know Bingham's mother would
not be home, but visiting her brother

Originally posted by Jeff Riff
What do we think happened to the actual passengers on the planes?

This is a very difficult and especially for the families of those victims very sensitive question to answer.
It is just my opinion and nothing more than that, and made after reading much information, and seeing lots of pictures and footage.

I think that the planes of the 911 attack, where special prepared airplanes and not the original civilian airplanes.
So, there where no passengers involved.

To answer your question, “what happened to the actual passengers” is for me impossible to answer, and I won’t speculate on that.

Here are the reasons for my opinion.

The things that troubles me with the so called 911 attacks done with civilian airplanes are.

1. Why where they not stopped by the military, so why where they allowed to attack in the first place?

2. The planes that hit the two towers.
What good be the strange things in comparison with an crashing normal civilian airplane, such as the strange clearly visible flash just before the impact of both airplanes in the Towers. The very strange pod on the belly and the lack of visible windows of the plane that hit the second tower.

3. The plane that hit the pentagon.
The impossible impact damage and the complete disappearing of what must have be a big Boeing 757 civilian airplane. The highly suspicious brand-new debris [with the letters] on the pentagon lawn. The withholding of specific pentagon security camera footage, and the confiscated camera footage of some other near buildings. The provided very suspicious camera footage of the pentagon, what in my opinion is absolute fraud. The contradicted witness testimonies seeing a different type of plane.

4. The very strange circumstances of the crashed fourth plane.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

Originally posted by Jeff Riff
What do we think happened to the actual passengers on the planes?

Here are the reasons for my opinion.

The things that troubles me with the so called 911 attacks done with civilian airplanes are.

1. Why where they not stopped by the military, so why where they allowed to attack in the first place?

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD.

The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked — the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

3. The plane that hit the pentagon.
The withholding of specific pentagon security camera footage, and the confiscated camera footage of some other near buildings. The provided very suspicious camera footage of the pentagon, what in my opinion is absolute fraud.

Footage is typically confiscated during investigations and with something of this magnitude, this would be of extreme importance to find out exactly what happened.
The only provided footage I'm aware of is a CCTV tape and as far as I can tell, nothing is out of order with regard to the footage. What do you find suspicious about the footage?

4. The very strange circumstances of the crashed fourth plane.

To which strange circumstance are you referring?

Thanks for your responses.

reply to post by thedman



Thedman, using common sense on them again?

Would anyone here actually believe it if someone who was supposed to be on one of the 9/11 flights actually came forward? No. They know this, and that is why they don't come forward. In fact, people who were supposedly on the flights did come forward. Now we have a whole new conspiracy surrounding the real identities of the misidentified hijackers.

reply to post by jfj123

The larger the perceived conspiracy, the less likely it is true.

Not according to the Second Antichrist...also known as Adolf Hitler who said...

The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.

Here is my take on the words common sense. Common sense is essentially the correct use of Occam's Razor. However, when both are used wrong, they become meaningless when applied to logical reasoning.

For instance, there was a time when "common sense" said humans would never safely fly through the air from one ground point to another. Yet, research and development of primitive airplanes proved "common sense" wrong.

There are many such cases throughout history, as to when Occam's Razor can be aptly applied because something is too self-evident to be ignored. Thus, also be correctly called common sense.

Back to the regularly scheduled program - "We lost real people on the 9-11 planes...right?? Or was it all fake?"

reply to post by jfj123

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by spacevisitor
1. Why where they not stopped by the military, so why where they allowed to attack in the first place?

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states.

If that was really so, isn’t that not absolute unbelievable, as it is an extremely strange coincidence?

No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD.

Do you find it not very strange then, that they where not called by the civilian Air Traffic Control, to warn them that not one but four civilian airplanes where way off their fly plan?

The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked — the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower.

Again, if that was really so, do you find that not extremely suspicious?

Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va.
None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Again, if that was really so, do you find that not extremely suspicious?

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by spacevisitor
3. The plane that hit the pentagon.
The withholding of specific pentagon security camera footage, and the confiscated camera footage of some other near buildings. The provided very suspicious camera footage of the pentagon, what in my opinion is absolute fraud.

Footage is typically confiscated during investigations and with something of this magnitude, this would be of extreme importance to find out exactly what happened.

Is it not time then, after more then 6 years now, that they come forward with that evidence and let everyone see what really happened at the pentagon?

The only provided footage I'm aware of is a CCTV tape and as far as I can tell, nothing is out of order with regard to the footage. What do you find suspicious about the footage?

Well, there where two camera’s with different angles,
that shows nothing more then “something” that must be the nose of the Boeing 757, and “something” that must be the Boeing 757.
But there is absolute nothing in this footage that gives me the idea that it is was a big Boeing 757.

I cant find the footage from both camera’s I have watched from second to second anymore so I provide you these.

911research.wtc7.net...

video.google.nl...

video.google.nl...

4. The very strange circumstances of the crashed fourth plane.

To which strange circumstance are you referring?

Thanks for your responses.

These strange circumstance?
The lack of plane debris.

www.youtube.com...




[edit on 2/2/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Unless you are calling me a liar and you think thats funny.

Not at all. I'm just saying what my experience was. I called my mother from my boss's cell phone to let her know I was fine. Could have just been the cell company, I got lucky and got thru, etc. Who knows.

reply to post by thedman


Are you saying that antennae towers lost in NYC would shut down the cell phone coverage of the rest of the planet? I knew New Yorkers were a proud bunch, but come on.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Would anyone here actually believe it if someone who was supposed to be on one of the 9/11 flights actually came forward? No. They know this, and that is why they don't come forward. In fact, people who were supposedly on the flights did come forward. Now we have a whole new conspiracy surrounding the real identities of the misidentified hijackers.

If a person who was supposed to be on the flight came forward, why wouldn't we believe it? There would be verifiable evidence.

Someone asked where the 9/11 passengers went. SO in case anyone missed it, I will pull an Ivan here and repeat:

There were 260 air passengers who officially died on 9/11.

Two months after 9/11, Flight 587 crashed in Queens, New York, after taking off from JFK Airport. All 260 on-board were killed.