Did Heath Ledger draw dark spiritual forces to him by completely submersing himself into character?

This tragedy reminded me of the original Hannibal Lechter movie Manhunter where Will Graham, the criminal psychologist, in trying to calculate Lechter's next move had submersed himself so deeply into Lechter's way of thinking that it drove him temporarily insane. I believe this can be done in reality, especially with very good actors. Is it possible that Ledger had lost himself in the role of the Joker?

Quote from Ledger:

'It is a physically and mentally draining role (his Joker is a “psychopathic, mass-murdering, schizophrenic clown with zero empathy”......“Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night,” he said. “I couldn’t stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going.”

Link

I'm also reminded of all the strange happenings on the set of The Exorcist.

I really believe that bad energy draws bad energy, and those unable to handle it mentally fall victim to it.

BTW, I'll bet you Heath Ledger wins an Academy Award for this role, posthumously of course.

Peace

[edit on 24-1-2008 by Dr Love]

Jak Nicholson was upset that he wasn't asked to be a consultant on the film (not sure why he thought they'd want him) and he also said he alerted Heath to the pressures of playing a psycho who laughed at death.

www.nydailynews.com...



[edit on 24-1-2008 by Crakeur]

Good point Dr. Love.

Anyone who is a good actor doesnt actually "act" but becomes something for real, makes something real. Some are so "good" at acting that it kills them.

The thread has me thinking about Brandon Lee, who died on the set of "The Crow" and also the singer Allyah, who died shortly after filming "The Queen of the Damned".

I'm interested to see future revelations on this thread. Great topic!

reply to post by Crakeur


They would want him because he was FLAWLESS in that movie!
HA....he was the absolute soup to nuts in batman one and the movie would not have been anywhere near as good as it was without him.
I would hire jack as a consultant any day....number 1 actor in my book.

reply to post by Skyfloating


well, he did have a role as a heroin addict in candy last year and the rumor is his girlfriend tossed him out when his habit got out of hand.

Originally posted by Crakeur
Jak Nicholson was upset that he wasn't asked to be a consultant on the film (not sure why he thought they'd want him)...

Agreed. Just as Christian Bale's Batman is far removed from Keaton's, Kilmer's, and Clooney's (Keaton's being the closest), recent speculation tells me that Ledger's Joker will be far removed from Jack Nicholson's, more dark and more evil.

Plus, we all know Nicholson's insane anyways, so his Joker wasn't much of a reach.

Peace

reply to post by Dr Love


his comments could be construed as tho he felt, since his was an oscar winner, that it should be a mirror of his version in the new film or he felt that it took such a horrific toll on his psyche that he should have been consulted to keep Heath's sanity in check. I'm taking the former. Arrogance over emotion.

The role definately affected him.
Though, already a Batman AND Joker fan, I expect this performance to rival Nicholson's.

www.nytimes.com...

"Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night,” he said. “I couldn’t stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going.” One night he took an Ambien, which failed to work. He took a second one and fell into a stupor, only to wake up an hour later, his mind still racing.

reply to post by Crakeur




I know this isn't movie discussion, but I have to let you all know...

Candy was a great, great movie and Ledger and his co-star were terrific in it.

Must see !!!!

reply to post by elevatedone


agreed. I watched a month or so ago. Sadly, he was a hell of an actor with an extremely bright future ahead of him.

One of my favorite scenes in any movie is from Lords of Dogtown when he's singing Rod Stewart. It's a short scene, he's sculpting a board and he turns up the radio and starts singing the song. It's just so well done.

reply to post by Crakeur


Since you brought it up, I thought Jack's comment on Heath's death was very insensitive and callous. I don't know what possessed him to essentially blurt out "told you so", but then again he isn't known for his deep sensitivities. They assumed at first his 'warning' was about Heath's alleged drug use but it turns out that Jack admittedly does not know Heath personally.

I believe that Jack was jealous and resentful that some young upstart was taking on a role that he felt was his alone. He never wanted to see anyone play Joker. Period.

"They never asked me about a sequel with the Joker. I know how to do that. To be candid, I'm furious."

Ugh. As if he is the only person capable of 'surviving' the role. His Joker was a campy rendition and besides even if playing the character places you in a spiritually evil state, what does that say about Jack being able to do it with ease. This Joker is much darker than the one Jack played.

Anyone catch the prologue at the Imax theater?

As to the OP's suggestion of what the character may have done to Heath in a spiritual sense, I think there is some truth to this but not specifically because of this particular role.

Heath it seems did not take to fame very well at all. Most of the roles he took on were taxing to him and he almost felt obligated to continue to act based on expectations of him. During one meeting for another film he excused himself tot he restroom, started hyperventilating, crying and banging his head against the wall. He even stated leaving the house was difficult, especially when he saw a giant billboard of his face across the street. He started having panic attacks.

This of course all comes from those that know him, and interviews he gave.

In my opinion it was the fame, pressures and expectations of being a mainstream actor that brought him to the condition he was in and NOT this particular role. If the allegations of drug use are true then I believe that it was those pressures in conjunction with the Hollywood lifestyle that pushed him into that world. Sort of how Johnny Depp admitted that in order to do most interviews he'd have to be drink heavily, because he was/is at times a very nervous individual and coping with that in the public eye is difficult.

For example this started much earlier for Heath:

He was given his first lead role in A Knight's Tale, a curious medieval romp with a rock 'n' roll soundtrack. It was a hit and a star was born. A particular kind of star - the romantic hunk. And Ledger was already experiencing misgivings.

"I didn't have the confidence to say, 'Stop! I don't want to do this any more!'," he admitted. Thisislondon

He may very well have been a very sensitive man that could no longer deal with giving so much of himself to the public via entertainment yet felt he had no choice but to do so. I'm sure the idea of letting down family and friends were on his mind. I don't know if he ever expected to be famous at all.

It was the pressure from acting itself, not the role of the Joker.

- Lee

Batman wasnt his last movie. He was working on a Terry Gilliam Film.

The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus is a fantastical morality tale, set in the present day. It tells the story of Dr Parnassus and his extraordinary 'Imaginarium', a travelling show where members of the audience get an irresistible opportunity to choose between light and joy or darkness and gloom. Blessed with the extraordinary gift of guiding the imaginations of others, Dr Parnassus is cursed with a dark secret. Long ago he made a bet with the devil, Mr Nick, in which he won immortality. Many centuries later, on meeting his one true love, Dr Parnassus made another deal with the devil, trading his immortality for youth, on condition that when his first-born reached its 16th birthday he or she would become the property of Mr Nick. Valentina is now rapidly approaching this 'coming of age' milestone and Dr Parnassus is desperate to protect her from her impending fate. Mr Nick arrives to collect but, always keen to make a bet, renegotiates the wager. Now the winner of Valentina will be determined by whoever seduces the first five souls

I am a working actor in NYC with a bit of experience (no academy award nominations =( but I have been around the block).

There are really 2 different kinds of actors.

1. Actors who work from the outside in, ie. when the makeup is on and the costume is in place, it informs the actor of what choices to make within their given set of circumstances. These are known as "technical actors" because they are gifted with the ability to mimic or create behaviors and manorisms to build a character.

2. Method Actors who work from the inside out ie. the actor informs the character. This is a far more psychological approach and can really take it's toll because there is the desire to "truly feel' a characters pain.

From what I know, Heath was a true method actor and this may have wreaked unsaid havoc on his psyche.

I was very said to see such a talent go.

reply to post by lee anoma


Definitely sounds like he was on the edge before the Joker. The intensity of the role may have very well pushed him over.

reply to post by IvanZana


I think he was in the process of working on that movie. I'm not sure the movie will even be now. So technically The Dark Knight will be his last.

Peace

reply to post by IvanZana


I think they finsihed filming the movie but there was post production work to be done and Heath was needed for it. If I recall correctly, Christopher Plummer made the comment "not sure what we are going to do now." That said, actors have died mid filming and the film still gets released. James Dean was nominated for his work posthumously and Oliver Reed (I think) died filming gladiator and they used a stand in and digitally popped his face onto the film after he died.

I think that living in such a spotlight not being able to really much without being in the papers would prolly drain you faster then Dracula high an having the munchies.

Its just not normal to have that pressure all the time, kings and royalty went thru the same and we all know how most royalty turned out.

Just goes to show you, Too much of anything can kill, even attention.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Good point Dr. Love.

Anyone who is a good actor doesnt actually "act" but becomes something for real, makes something real. Some are so "good" at acting that it kills them.

Method acting.

That technique can be successful but going so far as to literally experience the destructive behaviors of a character you play is downright nuts.

Now Jared Leto sleeping on the streets and losing weight in preparation for his role in Requiem For a Dream (Bale did this before as well) is one thing, but to actually shoot up is another. I think most actors are aware of that line and the smart ones now how to walk it to success.

In the end it's not the role that kills them, its their own heavy expectations and fear of failure that drives them to push to an extreme, should they allow the dark aspects of a character into their own personal life. A confident actor would know where you begin and the character ends. They also would trust their own skills enough not to need go to a point of possible no return just to deliver a convincing role.

Ledger: "Well ... that's uh ... I mean look, we're acting ... I mean, when you're playing a mass murderer are you really murdering people? Know what I mean? You're acting. wcbstv

He understood the difference and I'm not sure he was even someone that did method acting. I do think he seriously focused on what the character was and should be. Probably extensively.

One thing though, is that his death made me feel uneasy for some reason. It's not that I was a fan of his, nor that I thought he was an incredible talent. I think he had potential to be of course but he never stood out to me. I haven't even seen most of his films and avoided some of the earlier ones he did.

When I heard about this though I was bothered in a different way that I don't quite understand. I understood why most people were. He entertains us, he is a star and we elevate him above those 'common' people like ourselves that meet similar or worse fates everyday. His life had no more or less value to me than those of the unknowns that I hear about though. Hell I even read about Brad Renfros' almost SIMILAR death right before I did about Heath's and he was younger plus and actor I was more familiar with. Not much attention on poor Renfro I noticed.

I'm just not sure why, but I did not like the fact that he died. It really disturbed me.

Meh...I don't know.
Just my own thing I guess.

- Lee

Originally posted by Dr Love
I think he was in the process of working on that movie. I'm not sure the movie will even be now. So technically The Dark Knight will be his last.

Peace

From what I hear it won't be done. Dark Knight will be his last and the character was only to be used for a cameo in the next installment which would focus on the character Two-Face as this one will on The Joker.

I am confident that Heath knocked it outta the park, even though I had reservations about him playing the part. As I said I wasn't a fan.

The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus will more than likely be re-shot or outright dumped. Terry Gilliam seems to always have issues whenever he tries to make a film.

- Lee

[edit on 25-1-2008 by lee anoma]

How did I know this would happen? I use ATS passionately and am very much a person who loves alternative ideas and reading - but this is really lame guys.

Heath is from my city, his mother was a good friend of my friends mother. This is nonsense and I find it absolutely ridiculous to even comment on stuff like this. His family would be appalled.

Does this mean that every actor who plays an evil 'character' takes on that character permanently as part of his pyche? I think not. Heath played the Joker HIS way, possibly the best portrayal yet - why? Because he was a great ACTOR and did his research!!!

People die all the time, every day. Young people, old people - people just like Heath. He could have been depressed, his pnemonia may have killed him - (kills people every day in the real world), he may have mixed up his pills, he may even have killed himself (which seems unlikely at this point) but WHY do we have to drag him down with this crap? He was a nice bloke who regularly came home to his family and didn't rally hang with a A-list Hollywood crowd at all.

I'm incredibly sad about the loss of not only a person from my city, but of a great actor at the beginning of a great career. Please just leave it alone. Not every bloody death of a famous person is a conspiracy!!!

[edit on 27-1-2008 by swinggal]