Dogon Alien “Mystery” Demystified

The article isn't necessarily saying that any explorers were the one's who taught the Dogon everything about the Sirius system, what I read was that Temple's first account wasn't accurate and when they made another attempt to speak with the Dogon regarding the Sirius system, they (the Dogon) did not come up with the same information that was recorded in Temple's original account.

Well done Isaac, superb article. This quality article I bet will make many members happy to be an ATS member.

reply to post by TheOracle


From what I read theres quite a lot more than a remote chance.

Isaac, cheers from me too! Very well presented information and arguments.

And to add to the discussion regarding the possible source of the Dogon's information, it seems that in light of all the facts the probability of the source being quite earthly are higher.

I am also surprised that visiting aliens would leave behind detailed facts about the star system and our solar system, but no knowledge of the culture of the visitors was provided. What about what they looked like? What they ate/drank/wore. Wouldn't that become part of the lore if the tribe truly was exposed to ETs?

While I have the greatest respect for the OPs abilities in posting a work of such magnitude on this, I am not yet convinced into complete skepticism on the matter.

There are many times in a courtroom where a lawyer in my own nation makes "much ado about nothing" in an effort to win by volume what he cannot by evidence.

Unfortunately, at first reading, I find that if one removes all those statements of conjecture, not much is left. Almost every statement by such august personages as Sagan and others, are just their guesses on this subject. Once we remove those that contain "may have" and "might have" from the pronouncements, I'm afraid this whale of an argument is reduced to bones and blubber. The gist of which is that the information was available in a general way to those with the education and inclination to pursue it. Nothing else is indisputable.

Unfortunately, in the real world, jurors are often overwhelmed by the shine of well worded harangues that rely heavily on the opinion of "stars" that are themselves just passing judgment without evidence. ATS is a tougher nut to roll than that though. We are seldom in awe of the pronouncements that filter down from on high, and instead demand proof.

On the one hand we have the written account of the day, done by a team with little or no reason to falsify the truth. The account bears no profit for the Dogon people, and has no appeal outside of their social structure. On the other we have the guesses and "modern myths" of the debunkers trying to find routes for this story to have traveled, who have a vested interest in protecting the sanctity of "modern science".

I will visit the links and where they lead in more detail, but for the nonce, despite the great amount of effort that has gone into this, I remain at some distance from accepting it as final proof that there is no mystery here. I advise others to be just as skeptical of these sources as our OP has been of this affair from the start. Skepticism works both ways.

As you read these links and statements from different people, bear in mind that nowhere is there anything more than circumstantial evidence to support the OPs claims that the mystery is "solved". My dear old Pappy had a saying which comes to mind about now. "If you can't blind 'em with brilliance, then baffle 'em with bull*^@t." I have a feeling this rebuttal is getting deep.

You both exhibit personal bias on this topic. If this does not evolve into a name calling contest this could be a great thread. It will be interesting to see where this goes

Since this is a rebuttal of sorts to the previous article; it is very odd it was rejected. Allow one side and suppress the other It would be interesting to know the reason for the rejection straight from the person who rejected this article?

Starred and flagged. I'll have to go back and read the other article. Sadly my PC is in the shop and I'm on a borrowed laptop. In the meantime I'm sure whats on the Net will keep me busy.

Art tends to be the language of local Myth. I've started looking into what art can be found on the Net but in three hours I've not found a single bit of art to add to this topic. What I'm finding is so stylized or childlike it is of little value. I would expect an occasional piece by a skilled artisan but I've yet to find even one. Is there a repository for the claimed works to back up the claims mentioned? I'm not getting far on searches.

Well first off excellent post!!!
thats a allot of info. wow!!!

link to a Sirius mystery



Well a friend of mine told me a about a star named sirius , he heard it from another friends sister that heard from there cousins uncle that he learned it from
an alien named george noory, that there is this star named sirius!!

Sorry had to do that.

Great topic but no offense, I remain skeptical. On one hand you have people who MADE a discovery. On the other is a hundred people all trying to be right by "disproving" the discovery with what if senarios and conjecture.

There's is only one question I have since every date of discoveries is around the same decade or so and the West knew about the info the Dogon's had around the same time. How long did the Dogon's have this info. Was it on cave walls for 100s of years and passed down generations or did they just learn it? I couldn't find anything on it. I suppose if I did the mystery would be solved.

Great post though. You gave me a lot more to but on my debunk side of the scale. Unfournately because there is no proof, it remains unsolved to me.

[edit on 12-1-2008 by dark_matter06]

Thankyou for this information, I have already sent it to 5 mates and we are going through it together, looking forward to reading your very detailed research. Thankyou

Originally posted by laiguana
The article isn't necessarily saying that any explorers were the one's who taught the Dogon everything about the Sirius system, what I read was that Temple's first account wasn't accurate and when they made another attempt to speak with the Dogon regarding the Sirius system, they (the Dogon) did not come up with the same information that was recorded in Temple's original account.

Well, if it really were true, I actually dont think the tribesmen in question would get a medal, they´d get killed and the whole issue would get covered-up...the reason being that the theory is dangerous to the institutions of religion and orthodox science.

reply to post by NGC2736


Agreed. Sometimes skeptics (by that I mean Sagan & Co., not Isaac) reasoning is much less simple than our explanation. Skeptics like waving occams dull razor, but in this case they fail to apply it on their own long-taled beards.

Originally posted by IsaacKoi


Several researchers have suggested that the Sirius star system is a very unlikely place for intelligent life to have evolved. For example, Ashpole has suggested that the Sirius star system “is not a likely home for life” (Ashpole, 1989, page 151) while Ian Ridpath has referred to “its extreme unlikelihood of supporting life” (Ridpath, 1978a, page 199).


There are several reasons for this.

I think it was the OPs intention to show "the other side of the debate", and that is a good thing.

Nevertheless, some of what the skeptics say doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Look at the above quote. Just because our current science thinks sirius is an unlikely place for intelligent life to evolve, doesnt really mean much, does it?

^^ I hate that. "But science now thinks this." Okay, is there a book somewhere with everything man once thought fact until he was proven wrong is written down? It happens so much it would have to be a huge book. I want it so I can slap people over the head when they make statements like "there is no life in Sirus." You know this how? Oh because your making a guess and then somehow your guess is fact? I don't think so.

Great post TC. I think it would be hard to try and debunk this with all your info and research that seems as good as it gets and still offers no proof. We still have a mystery and I love it.

[edit on 12-1-2008 by dark_matter06]

Nice job.

Surprised to hear your article was rejected.

If so, is there any hope of getting an article accepted?

As my first little experiment with with using digg.com, I've submitted a URL to my article here on ATS (selecting a ATS thumbnail to do a tiny bit to promote ATS at the same time).

The relevant page on Digg.com can be found here.

All the best,

Isaac

blog.360.yahoo.com...
When certain concepts mentioned in the Quran are studied in the light of 21st century scientific discoveries we find ourselves imparted with yet more miracles of the Quran. One of these is the star Sirius, mentioned in Surat an-Najm 49:

... it is He Who is the Lord of Sirius. (Quran, 53: 49)

The fact that the Arabic word "shi'raa," the equivalent of the star Sirius, appears only in Surat an-Najm, meaning only "star," 49 is particularly striking. Because, considering the irregularity in the movement of Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, as their starting point, scientists discovered that it was actually a double star. Sirius is actually a set of two stars, known as Sirius A and Sirius B. The larger of these is Sirius A, which is also the closer to the Earth and the brightest star that can be seen with the naked eye. Sirius B, however, cannot be seen without a telescope.

The Sirius double stars orbit in ellipses about one another. The orbital period of Sirius A & B about their common centre of gravity is 49.9 years. This scientific data is today accepted with one accord by the departments of astronomy at Harvard, Ottawa and Leicester Universities.2 This information is reported as follows in various sources:

Sirius, the brightest star, is actually a twin star... Its orbit lasts 49.9 years.3

As is known, the stars Sirius-A and Sirius-B orbit each other in a double bow every 49.9 years.4

The point requiring attention here is the double, bow-shaped orbit of the two stars around one another.

However, this scientific fact, the accuracy of which was only realised in the late 20th century, was miraculously indicated in the Quran 1,400 years ago. When verses 49 and 9 of Surat an-Najm are read together, this miracle becomes apparent:

It is He Who is the Lord of Sirius. (Quran, 53: 49)

He was two bow-lengths away or even closer. (Quran, 53:9)

The description in Surat an-Najm 9 may also describe how these two stars approach one another in their orbits. (Allah knows best.)

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[edit on 12-1-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by raze78


thats some pretty interesting information there. I know that sirius plays a prominent role in many religions and mythologies, but I wasnt aware of it in islam.

One a side-note, would you happen to know the arabic name for "Mars"?

reply to post by IsaacKoi




And how likley is it that those french missionary teachers would get into detailed examination of the heavens? More likely the three R's would be the focus, I would think. The point despite the level of contact, and schools at that level are not good examples of your point,is that the likelihood of anyone sitting down with a group of natives and discussing in detail the astronomical sciences is slim to none. So the Dogon, by all accounts, according to the best evidence at hand, had this knowledge prior to any contacts with the outside world, and no evidence other than assumptions exists..to assume that schools would teach that level of that subject to those people at that time and under those circumstances is not valid and likley in my opinion.

But thats just me. great work tho'...

^^^ Exactly how I feel. You would think they, whoever these mystery first explorers are, would have taught them their native tongue i.e. French or English before they got to astronomy. And you would also think they would have recorded it as the French did. Just speculation but so is the entire argument against the mystery.

Its a very interesting read!
Starred and Flagged, ad "Dugg" as well.

Stellar article! I feel privileged to be in a position to read and comment on such.

I've read the book, the latest revision, and your article takes a Gatling gun to the statements made regarding possible contamination.

Does your article sway me though? After reading the book I had a serious issue in NOT believing the Dogon had been in contact with another civilization.
There were times when I thought he was grasping to make ends meet and there were times when I thought he was dead on.

-- do I believe the Dogon were contaminated or Griaule put words in their mouth?? -- I think the contamination is highly improbable. It's just too specific a concept and translating that and incorporating it within Dogon belief is far fetched. (the whole concept is I know )
Griaule though.. I didn't realize how unreliable his character was and I also didn't realize how may of the facts are outdated from Griaules knowledge at the time.. I think you may have demystified the mystery for me.

-- I respect you analytical mind and am wondering if any concept within the book rings true or is highly probable in your mind. I found the myth deconstruction and comparison among cultures which span the globe fascinating. His take on hte pyramids original inhabitants is related as well to the dogon so what say you? the book total trash for you?

Great work.. I don't think anyone here can post that enough
I have a lot of reading to do now. I can't even imagine how long this took you to put together.
wow.. ATS has another rare jewel here.

b


[edit on 13-1-2008 by Bspiracy]