Freemasonry, the truth shall set you free.

Originally posted by oconnection


This is what has kept me so interested in this subject. 5 months trying to study this topic & I still don't have anything close to clear picture of what Freemasonry is. Honestly If someone asked me what is Freemasonry I couldn't tell them.

The only way you will ever be able to answer the question "What is freemasonry" is by becoming one. Even then, there is no hard and concrete answer except for that which you create for yourself.
Ask 50 freemasons the question and you will get many different replies. This doesn't mean to say that they are ignorant but points to the depth of philosophy within masonry.
Neo pointed out that he heard of a couple of high ranking masons leaving and questioning it's motives. The point is though, that these questions are THEIRS. They reached their OWN conclusions. There is no motive within masonry other than the one you as a mason supply it with. The rituals and the symbols are merely pointers - it's up to each individual to decide which direction they want to be pointed to.

I drove by the Mason Lodge where I would be attending should I join yesterday. It is an old brick church building with all the windows bricked up. I guess they don't want anyone spying on them.

or maybe they didn't want vandals putting stones through the windows or maybe couldn't afford new ones.

I use three different lodges quite regulary and none of them have their windows bricked up we have this UK invention called curtains

Originally posted by Mogus

Sorry old chums but a number of high level masons have left over the years and their idea of what Freemasonry is all about differs from you benign suggestions. Sure many masons are good people and believe they are doing good (although most people join masonry primarily for self-advancement, which is not in of itself wholy altruistic I think), but it is who runs the organization that best knows what its main objectives and purposes are.

Neo,
the thing that is great about you is, you really have no original thoughts or convictions of your own, yet you ramble about repeating the thoughts of others. Everything you say either comes from another website or is something someone told you.

Sometimes the things you say actually make sense and on rare occasions I find the content of your posts interesting, however, your trying to establish yourself as an oracle of all things without actually having any idea as to what your talking about.

A parrot can repeat the words of others.

It takes a simple mind to repeat another mans convictions as his own and put shame on those who don't agree.

Your as opaque as a clean window...

Yes, those high above know better the true meanings behind that which makes up Masonry. It's no secret. As is the same for any other organization in the world.
Are you suggesting anything new?

As for me being a shape shifting overloard, all I can say is that when you join the Masons, you get a discount card for Jergens so as to appease the skin around the slowly protruding scales. Thank goodnesssssss!

Your point being? You smart me stupid? First of all for all members here you got to prove your assumption. Get working on it then.

Now on to business of adults. I am not a freemason. You are or know someone or feel a need to defend them. Thus, your pro-bias in favour of them. Not being a freemason myself I have no need to defend nor attack them but rely entirely on what is said by those that are or have been.

Your comments, insights, info and revelations about freemasonry along with those of your brothers' at this site have been at best as deep as the thickness of a piece of saran wrap (or whatever they may call the stuff in your locale).

Thanks and next time pick an amateur to tussle with or else it will get a lot nastier for you.

Sorry to dampen your enlightenment.. but it is a well accepted fact that what the lower levels do and say in Freemasonry is much different from the highest level.
Until you are 33rd degree you really have little credibility as to your vast knowledge of masonic truth for me.

It has always been well known that the lower levels are fed misinformation as to the true cause and symboligies which is understandable... but it leads to these posts where people think they suddenly have the answers, when what they have is in fact a lie.

[Edited on 3-2-2004 by NephraTari]

Sorry to dampen your enlightenment.. but it is a well accepted fact that what the lower levels do and say in Freemasonry is much different from the highest level.

Until you are 33rd degree you really have little credibility as to your vast knowledge of masonic truth for me.

It has always been well known that the lower levels are fed misinformation as to the true cause and symboligies which is understandable... but it leads to these posts where people thing they suddenly have the answers, when what they have is in fact a lie.

first of all nephy you speak with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. For your information, its not a well know fact at all. In fact the only ones who perpertrate such a myth is the totally gullible, usually because they read it in a book, or surfed a conspiracy website

In fact what you have got, as well as all these spurious authors of purile books and supposed website hosts is absolutely no facts at all.

1. where is the proof
(absence of proof by the way is not confirmation).

2. too what personal experiences do you attribute such "facts" or is it second hand info from the above.

3. explain how the only people who have information on this great secret conspiracy is 33rds and "theorists"
dont forget to cite names.


just to quote you're little gem of a line

Until you are 33rd degree you really have little credibility as to your vast knowledge of masonic truth for me.


until you actually join you have no credibilty at all for your no-knowledge

Ok, there appear to be several Masons in this thread, so I will ask here.
WHAT is a paramasonic group? Or is this an offshoot that someone created following the Mason line?
And it's not "para" as in paramilitary, it's "para" as in paranormal

Thanks for your responses

Ok, there appear to be several Masons in this thread, so I will ask here.
WHAT is a paramasonic group? Or is this an offshoot that someone created following the Mason line?
And it's not "para" as in paramilitary, it's "para" as in paranormal

Freemasonry over the years has had a number of copiers styling themselves as "masonic organisations" none of which are recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England.

see here for a beter explanation

www.masonicinfo.com...

Actually I thought if you were a mason you took an oath to keep secret the things that happen within freemasonry?

Originally posted by Ozzie

Freemasonry over the years has had a number of copiers styling themselves as "masonic organisations" none of which are recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England.

see here for a beter explanation

www.masonicinfo.com...

So this group that invited me (strange story to that) should I just ignore them?

Actually I thought if you were a mason you took an oath to keep secret the things that happen within freemasonry

not at all, the only oath to secrecy is for the modes of recognition, of which i will not give, as anyway they are all over the web as "revealed secrets" mostly bogus.

So this group that invited me (strange story to that) should I just ignore them?

personally I would just ignore them. It is not a masonic organisation and seems to be an organisation styling themselves on the old Illuminati with their own made up philosophies. not only that it seems to have mixed a lot of "conspiracy theories" together.

but then again its up to you..

Originally posted by Ozzie

Actually I thought if you were a mason you took an oath to keep secret the things that happen within freemasonry

not at all, the only oath to secrecy is for the modes of recognition, of which i will not give, as anyway they are all over the web as "revealed secrets" mostly bogus.


i disagree with you on the oath

not at all, the only oath to secrecy is for the modes of recognition, of which i will not give, as anyway they are all over the web as "revealed secrets" mostly bogus.

Not that your obligations permit you to give a yes or a no on this. But your telling me that all this fuss over secrecy is over some silly handshakes. You say that conspiracies against Freemasonry is far fetched. When a person could easily look these things up in the local library or even on some Freemasonry sites. So your telling me that all this fuss is over the Duegard of an Entered Apprentice or the Duegard of a Master Mason? This is almost comical if I have understood you correctly. I believe there is more substance to people�s objections against your fraternity then just that of handshakes or dueguards. I also believe there is substance to some of Masonry arguments against many (not all) objections towards the conspiracy theorist.

Not that your obligations permit you to give a yes or a no on this. But your telling me that all this fuss over secrecy is over some silly handshakes

you got it in one

want to know where we meet.. look it up in the phone book.

want to know who's in it buy the freemasons manual. all lodges for province and names of officers.

want to know the ritual.. buy the ritual book

want to know the supposed secrets... look it up on a conspirators website, they alone know that

First of all, Neo, that fact that you hold yourself in such high regard is to me what proves the extent of your blatant ignorance. You think you have all the answers and that everyone else should at least make an atempt to catch up to your supreme high level of existence.

I could fill a bag full of shiit, light it and the overall effect on my neighbors would be similar to the effect you have here.

Also,
in my posting at the start of this thread I specifically explained that I do not have all the answers and that the content of my post was to express my understanding and feelings of the organization thus far.

I am not like Neo where I need other people to believe or accept every word I copy, I mean say so as to feel I have accomplished something. I have been making attempts at helping people understand Masonry based on my experiences, nothing more.

You can either take it or leave it.

There is a wide array of people in this world. There are those who merely like to take what other people say as Gospel and never think anything else of it, and there are those who wish to see things for themselves and learn first hand from the experience. I prefer the latter, because when I die, I'd much rather my life not be something I lived through the words of others.

I want my own story to tell.

DQ sighting in a mason lodge? Could be if the grill gets a little hotter... Did you know that lobster will fight to the death when put in a gradually boiling pot? Why else are the claws sheathed?

----
Cognizant part of this post:

In order to enrich this post with vitamins and information, in the southern New Mexico there is the Aztec Lodge #3, which was a lodge before New Mexico even became a state. How very interesting... www.zianet.com...
Also, from looking at the above link there's a lodge in Roswell! My head spins .. wheels within wheels indeed!

Ahhh that word "ignorance", The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. A word that is used so often here at ATS. I think it used a bit too much in my opinion. The motto here is deny ignorance. I believe the original purpose of this site was to collectively learn. Not shun people because they do not know or that they have a certain opinion. It is of my opinion that there has been too much finger pointing & too little learning.

Originally posted by Mogus
I have been on these forums for quite a while now, reading stories and exchanging theories etc. I am still by no means any scholar of Freemasonry, however after now having joined the Masons I have a few points I would like to make. Bear with me.

#1. Nothing you ever read will ever make complete and total sense unless you are a Mason. Period.

I have read a lot regarding Masonry both on the web and off and after joining Masonry I have realized that my understanding of what I have read is completely different. Masonry is an experience and as such, it's very difficult for people to describe what the experiences of Masonry entail let alone speculate on it without ever having gone through it themselves. The only way to find the real truth behind what Masonry is, is to experience it for yourself so as to better understand it and what you read about it.

#2. Freemasonry is different for everyone!
I have had the majority of my family plea with me not to join Masonry. They all have their own ideas as to what it is and what it entails. Being raised by a VERY Catholic family and then joining the Masons was a very big deal for me personally. Tails of the end of the world being brought forth by the Masons in their quest for world domination etc etc. Let's put it this way, if you work at Burger King and 2 of your co workers plan to rob the diner, does this make the employees of the entire chain guilty?

As I said before in another post, Freemasonry opens doors to pathways while providing you the opportunity to do with them as you will. You join Freemasonry on your own free will and accord and from that point on the decisions you make while involved are your own. Freemasonry simply connects you to a global network of people who all share in the same bond, experiences and connection by which to grow from. Not all of these Masons are good, most of them are. It's up to you to decide what you wish to do within Masonry and with whom you wish to do it with.

#3. There are no secrets.
This one I myself thought was BS before joining, however, once you join the Masons, you know what to look for and when you do, you will realize that its EVERYWHERE on the web.

People think that because there were Masons who were convicted of kidnapping another Mason in the early 1800's for blabbing about them

Stop...no one was convicted for the "Dissapearance" of Captain Morgan (Who was believed to have actually ran off to Canada). There was not even a charge of Murder.

they think that Masonry is bad. At the time, everything that made the Masons who they were was very sacred to them. At the time, there were secrets. Secrets that gave these men something to share amongst themselves that no other human being could share and experience and it was this that kept Masons together. What you had then was an expression of how the great whole is more important than the one. The one being the mand who was kidnapped and vanished.

These things still exist today, however they arent secret any longer.

Masonry has secrets, you'll learn them as you progress in age, they are not secrets that can be simply told to you.

Now, before you castrate the Masons for those actions, consider this.

How many people have died at the hands of Catholics or
any religion fighting to become supreme or protect themselves?

If a member of the Vatican held a dear secret of the faith and openly prepared to disclose this information...do you honestly think he would live much longer?

In summary, the point I am trying to make is, the real truth is in sharing of the experiences and moving forward with your life while learning something new. It's up to you to do what you wish with what is provided although the hope is that you will use your experience and network for the good of man.

If you ever really want to know what goes on, join. Until then, be happy knowing that nothing you read will ever contain the real truth as the real truth lies within yourself.

I hope I have made some sense here in my late night rambling...

Oh, do me a favor and buy this CD.
Just Left Town
We need to sell out by Feb 23 due to my presenting them to several major labels in NYC in Feb....help me out!

Technically, not to be too much of a nit-picker as sure most of you probably think I don't know what I'm talking about, but it can be said that Masons are not allowed to discuss what happens when the lodge is tyled.

U2U me if you want a more detailed explaination.