Undetected CHINESE submarine pops up during US Navy Exercise

The Daily Mail looks like a celebrity hotline! If this ever gets serious coverage the story will probably be much different.

I reckon they were testing there tactics and now are using that information some how.

reply to post by Rockpuck



They should count their blessings. Or we should count our's? Given the fact they were hidden and we had no clue.

reply to post by Anubis Kanubis


*ALERT*

Please check these threads:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is deja-vu grand scale. *THIS "NEWS" IS DISINFO*


It's a RERUN of an old "news", it's neocon war propeganda.
The details, carrier, sub-class, and the area of event, even the date... same as last year. Don't believe this crap.

Rather worth discussing would be the two news articles, last years
Washington Times' and this years feature from
Daily Mail, both publications untrustworthy through their known ownership and support to the neocon agenda.

Unfortunately the WT link is broken now, but if you search on the site for "Chinese sub stalks Kitty Hawk" you get an article about Heart Failure Treatment
...yeah, they sure have humour those NC guys.

To meet debate on the validity of this news and its source, nobody have and can prove it a lie, hardly even postulate it to be, when they remove last years evidence.

I find it extra suspicious it resurfaces on almost same date of the year. The one I posted on 13th of November last year I called
Red October Surfacing - Chinese Sub Stalks USS Kitty Hawk

October in the Cyrillic calender is our November.

Nice catch KuhnMoon. You get a star

So now the question is "What international, or national event needs this story as a PR boost and what is the agenda.

Why discuss vulnerability of Carrier fleet?

Why blame China?

Why say our Navy was embarrassed.

In your thread last year, it proceeded some meeting with China over military matters. Don't see any of that this year.

Someone is saying something to someone, too bad we don't know who or why. A lingering mystery I would guess.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Redge777]

future enemy
we have been assaulted many times
poisons, chemicals and now an assault
on our monetary system.
war isn't just with bullets.

reply to post by Anubis Kanubis

The Chinese military is very mysterious. One way that we could describe their methods and traditions though is precise. I highly doubt this was an accident on the part of their military. This was a clear display of force.
Their alliance with Iran is open, just like Russia's. They have much interest in our war rhetoric and probably would like to send a message about our military potential.

All that said, one may also say that the whole world is a stage. This may be the acting out of the introduction to a bloody play.

okay... thats the end of america's suprematie.....no longer a thread for china anymoore...
they better be moderate to china with there commends on the incident..
china could dump some moore dollars on the market... humiliating amerika moore......

There are a few things that don't ring true here...or at least are being incorrectly presented.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

The entire surface combat strength of Task Force 75 is ten ships.
USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63)
USS Cowpens (CG-63)
USS Shiloh (CG 67)

And Destroyer Squadron 15,
USS Lasson (DDG-82)
USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG-54)
USS John S. McCain (DDG-56)
USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62)
USS Stethem (DDG-63)
USS Mustin (DDG-89)
USS McCambpbell (DDG-85)

Even if the entire group was deployed as escorts to the Kitty Hawk (which isn't normal procedure), that's not 'a dozen ships providing security'. The fact that the screen was penetrated is bad, but the fact that the source for the information can't get some basic facts correct casts a certain doubt on the story.

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

The way this is being presented, you might think the submarine popped up right beside the Kitty Hawk (which may be the case). On the other hand, an exercise area is normally several hundred square miles, so popping up 'at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise' could mean that there was considerable distance involved. Being 'within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles' doesn't narrow it down much, either, since most modern torpedoes have ranges measured in miles, and missiles have ranges measured in tens or even hundreds of miles. The sub could've been close enough to swap paint, or it might have been several miles away.

I also have a bit of trouble with the level of incredulity expressed by their sources. The Song class subs aren't exactly unknown to the USN, and it's no real secret that diesel-electric boats are the very devil to find and track....in fact, they're usually quieter than nuclear boats of the same vintage.

This sounds like an embarrassment for the USN, combined with a bit of journalistic hyperbole, not the end of the USN's power-projection capability.

I posted some info earlier, some of you read it while others still haven't, but here is something that you must think about.

If the US Pacific Fleet has annual exercises how hard would it be for the Chinese to plant a sub in the path of the US Fleet and keep it hidden until the right time?

Once you know that answer you have to figure out why it surfaced instead of staying hidden.

Some say that is was contacted and told to surface or be destroyed. This is a very good possibility.

Others say it surfaced to surprise the US Fleet. This is also another possibility.

The article doesn't mention many points that are needed to assess this situation correctly. We won't ever get that info so don't lose sleep over this. I would also stay away from saying anything negative about either country. Nobody here can talk about anything classified so nobody can discuss what really happened or what really could happen. I hate to take the wind out of some members sails, but these are the facts.

If this is an annual exercise then the Chinese have one chance every year to pull off something like this, the odds are in their favor knowing where the US Fleet will be. That also means that the US has a chance to play "hide and go seek" with the Chinese Navy knowing that they will be waiting somewhere in their ecercise area. I think this is what happened. Who really won is the question we need an answer for, but we won't get that info since it is classified and will damage the public support of either country, not to mention the morale in either Navy.

Hahahaha that's funny news...

proves once again that the yanks really, really aren't the kings of the world.

Sorry, but it did make me laugh.

All the current news articles on this incident fail to mention when this incident took place, I'm with khunmoon on this "report" being disinfo, good call, starred.

This a rehash of old news.

Is this meant to plant the idea in the sheeple's minds that the US Navy is somehow vulnerable to a surprise attack?

The trouble is: Most people don't believe anything until it shows up in the main stream media. The problem is: Most people believe everything they see in the main stream media.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.

DailyMail

Boy, we Yanks are just asleep at the wheel. Thank you UK, you are always so helpful. The Daily Mail is the new NY times for the world. I'm sure the Joint Cheifs have it delivered to the personal johns for the most up-to-date debriefing after their coffee kicks in!

If you believe that the sub just popped up, and the US Navy top brass turned to an un-named high ranking Nato officer, and yelled "Holy Shnikee's, where the hell did that come from." Then that is exactly what they want you to believe.

Back in the 1980's The USS Kittyhawk (CV-63) actually ran over a Russian Submarine. The story was always "How could you not know it was there?" I was there, and I was in a position to know exactly how that happened.

The chances of that sub even leaving port without half the US fleet knowing exactly who the Skipper was would be close to zero.

Go Navy!

Originally posted by NJ Mooch

I may seem to lean towards the US, but we don't know all the facts and I doubt we ever will. I take this article as a US directed propaganda story to help build Chinese confidence in their Navy.

[edit on 20071110 by NJ Mooch]

I would agree that if this story is true that even if the Navy had detected the sub all along they would not let China know it. The Navy might have also wanted to see just what procedures the sub would do. This would be a great chess move in China declaring Check and the US then saying Checkmate.

On a side note I would also think that China if they were able to move undetected they would not want to show their hand that they could, and so this whole story sounds rather fishy to me too.

So much for side looking sonar.

You got to turn them on to see anything.

Or you have to listen but with so many ships around , you can't.

Duh.

Submarines are like UFOs of the sea, no windshield.

I think I owuld have fired a missile on them personally.

This kind of event is nothing new. Every time that there is a naval exercise you can guarantee that there will be a few non players floating around. Every exercise I ever took part in had submarines of other nations shadowing it. I remember being on the bridge of a British carrier when a visiting commander from a kilo class submarine that had surfaced (expectedly) nearby presented the captain with a series of photographs. The photographs were of the Aircraft carrier and a number of US, Australian. New Zealand, Malaysian, German and French ships taking part in an exercise a few months earlier. Apparently the sub had been watching the exercise the whole time and had gone undetected.
The Kilo class sub is not small so if that can go undetected I am sure that a smaller Chinese sub can do the same.
Oh and just in case you think that no nation could ever evade detection by the US navy, I think you should know that there is always at least at least a Russian and Chinese sub (amongst other nations) sitting off your coast 24 hours a day. sometimes there position is known by the authorities, at other times their track is lost and they can quite happily sit there listening to radio transmissions and logging shipping movements unharassed.

[edit on 11-11-2007 by avriel]

reply to post by mr-lizard


Your intelligent. Why don't you read the previous posts by the mod. The story is BS.

reply to post by Brother Stormhammer


Says surface ships. Hello there are two subs with that carrier battle group. Battle groups and strike groups are also two different things as well.

I Never commented on the authenticity of this story and I meant to, however it is probably true (or at least true to some degree) We do it to them and they do it to us its nothing to be alarmed at

[edit on 11-11-2007 by avriel]