Japan to Buy Eurofighter

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If this becomes reality this will be another great boost for the Eurofighter program.

[edit on 11/4/07 by FredT]

I'm not into technology concerning warfare, but this plane is absolutely amazing. The F-35 has really seemed to take a back seat, as far as foreign demand goes.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

'The French Rafale is difficult to use'..
huh??!!

IMHO they should either build their own a/c or propose a stake in the PAK-FA. Would do wonders for their strategic independance.
But.. cough.. cough..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
'The French Rafale is difficult to use'..
huh??!!

That may have been an error in translation. He perhaps suggested the Rafale would be difficult to acquire, perhaps for manufacturing reasons.

What is wrong with the Gripen?

"The F-22 is an exceptional aircraft," Ishiba said. "But we at the Defence Ministry have not decided that it is absolutely necessary for Japan."

Yeah... not to mention the fact that it was denied for export to Japan. That would tend to put a hamper on any attempt to decide whether it is "absolutely necessary" for Japan, given that the conclusion is irrelevant.
In any case they do not mention the F-35, a subtle way I suspect of telling the US their pride has been hurt. Now we all know my stance on the F-35-Tiffy debate. So forgive me when I say, if indeed that is that case, it's silly to suggest such (bad) decisions of such magnitude be made on the above mentioned scenario. Anyway, given that there is no source for this posting and that this is not an official decision, deal etc... It's hard to ascertain what is really going on, politics or policy.

Japan initially announced they were looking to domestically develop a 5th Generation fighter, in that case are they going to purchase an interim aircraft until then or drop that plan altogether? Seeing as how upgrading their existing fleet would be less costly, time consuming and less complex, until this new 5th Gen fighter enters service. Instead of spending resources and money on an interim fighter that would not be obsolete when, if, the 5th Generation fighter enters service. Forcing Japan to buy a small number, hence limited production and high cost instead of mass production and looking then to perhaps supplement their new fighter with whatever is on the market. A future proof and less expensive proposition, but I digress.

In any case until further clarification, or official decisions are made I'll watch these games closely and wait for a real deal to go down. Which begs the question, why is the threat title misleading?

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
The F-35 has really seemed to take a back seat, as far as foreign demand goes.

Perhaps the fact that the F-35 will be produced in many times more numbers than the Eurofighter, or that it has, and will be, sold to many more foreign countries alluded you?

[edit on 4-11-2007 by WestPoint23]

I think this whole thing is just Japan's way of telling the US to "hurry up with those F-35s!"
The difficulty with using the Rafale is with the fire control computer and weapons. Everytime the pilot goes to fire a missile, a big white flag appears on his CRT display and little white flags pop out of the missile noses.
--Sorry, I apologize for the French joke.

Japan has ruled out the F-35 simply because it will not be ready in time.

I thought they'd ruled out any single engine aircraft.

AWST had a similar article a few weeks ago. They are still persuing the F-22. The Typhoon is the backup a/c if they cannot get the Raptor. Japan wants the best avalible and will go with the Typhoon if it cannot get what it wants.

Japan can pursue the F-22 as much as they like, but they're not getting it. People in our government have stated this numerous times. Some planes just aren't meant to be exported (SR-71, U-2, B-2, etc.), and the F-22 is one of them. The Raptor was built for us and only us.

Japan won´t "wait" for the F-35. They need a true fighter aircraft, and for several known reasons the F-35 is the less-than-ideal choice for that role for any military wih a decent defense budget. As long as they rule out Russian aircraft, the Eurofighter is pretty much the premier candidate - nonetheles since they won´t have to fear any significant system downgrading by the Typhoon consortium.

Originally posted by CreeWolf
...
--Sorry, I apologize for the French joke.

Then why did you serve that stupid, ignorant stereotype in the first place?

Originally posted by Lonestar24
Japan won´t "wait" for the F-35.

There s a case to be made for the F-35 time frame topic but I'd have to see the official analysis conducted by the JASDF into the matter in order to determine whether it is legitimate or not. Furthermore, an alternative case can be made that that waiting will result in a more capable end product. One with a longer combat relevance and support date, in other words a future proof system, and an aircraft which offers greater combat capability.

Originally posted by Lonestar24
They need a true fighter aircraft, and for several known reasons the F-35 is the less-than-ideal choice for that role for any military wih a decent defense budget.

Please clarify the term "true fighter" for me please and demonstrate how such terms have relevance in today's battlefield reality. And do kindly describe, as I apparently do not know, why the "F-35 is the less-than-ideal choice for that role for any military wih a decent defense budget", over an aircraft such as the Typhoon as it currently is. For the record, I am of the opinion that in terms of operational effectiveness the Typhoon is not quite up to F-35 level.

reply to post by bdn12


Actually the U-2 wasn't exported but it HAS been flown by foreign pilots, many times. So has the B-2. There were MANY pilots from Thailand that flew U-2s, including over the United States starting in the mid-1960s. There is currently at least one Aircraft Commander flying B-2s that is from the RAF. They might not be exported aircraft, but these pilots WERE and ARE privy to many of the secrets that we want to keep about these airframes.

reply to post by WestPoint23

Please clarify the term "true fighter" for me please and demonstrate how such terms have relevance in today's battlefield reality. And do kindly describe, as I apparently do not know, why the "F-35 is the less-than-ideal choice for that role for any military wih a decent defense budget", over an aircraft such as the Typhoon as it currently is. For the record, I am of the opinion that in terms of operational effectiveness the Typhoon is not quite up to F-35 level.

If it was me you were asking (I know it wasn't but I do like to butt in) then I would describe a 'true fighter' (which is not an ideal term but it is the one thrown into the discussuion originally) as something like the F-22, Typhoon, Rafale, Flanker etc. Something that is designed to win A2A engagements against the best opposition both WVR and BVR as a primary defence asset.

I would describe the F-35 however as a top end, survivable, A2G delivery system with a decent degree of secondary A2A capability thrown in which enghances its survivability beyond the level which stealth alone would endow it with.

Westy, if you believe the F-35 is a superior 'fighter' to the Typhoon, then why do you suppose the RAF wants more Typhoons than F-35's? Also why do you suppose the USAF wants the F-22 at all (which the Typhoon matches in broadly all aspects except stealth according to pilot experience of both types) when they could buy many more F-35's if they ditched it altogether?

If the F-35 was so capable as a 'pure' fighter, wouldn't that be the obvious choice? I think the remark about any country with a decent defence budget refers to the fact that such nations would buy both the F-35 AND a 'proper' fighter for the A2A side if they could afford to (ie as with the USAF and RAF)

It is completely true that the F-35 will have the very latest systems on board, however the F-22 and Typhoon will also be progressively updated to the same standard. As a BVR launch platform it will do the job, but any nation that ignores the WVR aspect of air fighting is asking for a bloody nose, and the F-35 offers very little of advantage in WVR, and nothing over the F-22 or Typhoon (or the Rafale or Gripen either) in terms of airframe design that I can see.

I notice that you are careful to refer to the Typhoon 'as it currently is'. So in what way is the F-35 'as it currently is' a better option?

I am not one of the many (albeit more qualified than me) people who just think the F-35 is rubbish and a waste of money. I happen to think that it will be very good, and very valuable in its intended role, that role is not however as an air superiority fighter.



[edit on 6-11-2007 by waynos]

Originally posted by Thirst
Japan has ruled out the F-35 simply because it will not be ready in time.

Sorry, may I change your post to:
Japan has ruled out F-35 simply because it wouldl not be air-superiority fighter.

oops, after I post I just saw Waynos and Lonestar posts.
Analyses they made are deep and hit the profundity of point.
Besides, TYPHOON also is a powerful attacker for bombing ground target.

[edit on 6-11-2007 by emile]

Originally posted by bdn12
Japan can pursue the F-22 as much as they like, but they're not getting it. People in our government have stated this numerous times. Some planes just aren't meant to be exported (SR-71, U-2, B-2, etc.), and the F-22 is one of them. The Raptor was built for us and only us.

people in your government are not always be intelligent. F-22 has been delayed for 10 years, it will be a mediocre fighter after Su-50 fly. This situation is quite different from SR-71, U-2, B-2, etc. those are singularities.

reply to post by emile

F-22 has been delayed for 10 years, it will be a mediocre fighter after Su-50 fly.

This can only be speculation emile, while it must certainly be what the Russians are hoping, there is as yet no evidence to show it to be the case. We wont know this answer for a few years yet and I strongly suspect that the very best the T-50 can hope for is parity on the stealth aspect.(My opinion) Whatever the outcome of the T-50 is, the F-22 is not suddenly going to become 'mediocre'. The arguments over American v Russian systems and weapons is for someone else other than me.

[edit on 6-11-2007 by waynos]

Waynos:

if this is a bet, I won't incite you to put money on PAF_FA, but some slues show that US air force so worried about the new gen fighter of Russia.

Why they want more F-22 urgently?
Why they always looking forward to refit F-35/
Why they has begun to develop a new generation fighter after F-22?

Some techs on F-22 are not superior now
no all moving VTC
no all moving vertical stabilazer
no LERX to compress the air flow to CARET inlet

What if all of them are used in Su-50?

reply to post by waynos


I`ve allways seen the F35 as a `down in the weeds` bomb truck , which also has the ability to fire A2A missiles - and IMO that will be the role 99.999999% of everyone will use it for - you don`t see F-16`s going around on BARCAP , they are all bombed up nowadays and the same will be true of the Lightning - it will be a rare day they will carry anything more than dfencive A2A weapons.

I agree, my point about it 'doing a job' in BVR was made in a purely 'if needs must' sense, which might apply to countries like Holland, for example, who cannot afford multiple types but are interested in the Lightning.

Besides, the Typhoon will look quite nice in Japanese colours anyway



edit; whats with images appearing too small these days, if you click the link you can see it is the right size for the board, and this new way spoils the picture

[edit on 6-11-2007 by waynos]