Sept Clues Busted

Originally posted by 4hero
Seems like a lot of people on ATS are scared of the septrember clues video, claims of a hoax and claims that it's been debunked etc, but no evidence to prove septemebr clues is a hoax, or no evidence debunk it. Only personal opinion without a detailed explaination as to how it's supposedly debubnked.

Go thru the thread and each piece of evidence one by one and debunk them. I'm sure probably half those images are dead, especially the ones from old PHOTOBUCKET account that got banned for me being a government shill, but there should still be enough PROOF that flaming jet engines flew out of the buildings smashing into the streets and everything else. You can never debunk that, and those facts alone obliterate every notion of "no planes".

If none of the links still work go out and spend hours on google finding all the high res photos again and please do brign them back here and explain how the dense fireballs which are photographically documented flying from the buildings... and their trajectories... which land on buildings / street corners... with high res photographic evidence of the smoldering jet engines being on the street corners consistent with the engine trajectories...

Please do debunk any and all photos you cna find. Take the time to embed them into the thread... and maybe somebody like myself might listen for a moment. Because everytime I tried to debate you people you'd skip right over all of that and talk about other things that cannot be PROVEN OR DISPROVEN.

Address the flaming engine and ALL of the evidence related to it or face sounding like a bafoon.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Go thru the thread and each piece of evidence one by one and debunk them. I'm sure probably half those images are dead, especially the ones from old PHOTOBUCKET account that got banned for me being a government shill, but there should still be enough PROOF that flaming jet engines flew out of the buildings smashing into the streets and everything else. You can never debunk that, and those facts alone obliterate every notion of "no planes".

If none of the links still work go out and spend hours on google finding all the high res photos again and please do brign them back here and explain how the dense fireballs which are photographically documented flying from the buildings... and their trajectories... which land on buildings / street corners... with high res photographic evidence of the smoldering jet engines being on the street corners consistent with the engine trajectories...

Please do debunk any and all photos you cna find. Take the time to embed them into the thread... and maybe somebody like myself might listen for a moment. Because everytime I tried to debate you people you'd skip right over all of that and talk about other things that cannot be PROVEN OR DISPROVEN.

Address the flaming engine and ALL of the evidence related to it or face sounding like a bafoon.

edit on 30-4-2012 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: error: photobucket

If you're trying to uphold the OS then surely the onus is on you to prove those fireball photos?

If they came from all the other 'sources' then they will most likely be faked.

Please do take a close look at this thread...
plane parts

You'll see fake plane parts, staged plane parts photos, including alleged cockpit headphones found next to a supposed engine. You'll also see pics of the distance and trajectory. As you'll notice, the distance and trajectory cannot be real, along with the 'plane parts'. Also, please do explain how a set of non-cockpit headphones flew over 1 mile and laned exactly next to a commercial 'plane engine'??!!

It sounds like you need to re-visit the forum!

Dude youre regurgitating a 5 year old thread now demanding I go and fix all the broken links...

That's an interesting piece of 'photo'. I don't recall that photo, and honestly it could very well be photoshopped. Which photographer took that photo; what is its source? What you might not realize is there a pretty good chain of custody on most of the photos and videos that are out there. I don't recall ever seeing that photo despite deliberately seeking out every possible media in this context. But its been years. My good friend that owns 911 Blogger might be familiar with this...

BS:


Where did this 'photo' come from???????????????????????????????????

A few years ago there was hardly a single 911 photo I hadn't seen, and this is one of them. These are totally different engines! Your camp is proposing that the Men In Black with their "flashy thing" memory erasers, which by the way is about what it would take to implant any piece of such wreckage, showed up at NOT one BUT 2 locations to tell people to grow onions?.

Originally posted by CB_Brooklyn

Originally posted by Nola213
Because this No Plane stuff has REALLY got to stop

If anyone wishes to challenge me on Newton's Laws, I am here. I will prove to the challenger and every reader that the 9/11 "plane" videos are fake.

I will prove that any who think those videos are of a real event don't know what they're talking about.

That's very interesting. If you say you could prove mathematically by invoking Newtonian physics that no planes hit the towers I for one would love to here this.

I must say, initially, I thought the argument of no planes was demonstrably absurd, not least of all because of the many eye-witnesses who claim to have seen a plane, however I have become more and more convinced of the no-plane theory during the last year. Recently a video was released by Ace Baker (already I can hear cynical drones in the background) once again providing a robust argument for the no-planes hypothesis. I must say, I came out very convinced. He shows how original footage has been edited audibly by inserting voices, and has pointed out what appear to be inconsistencies in the footage such as the puff balls appearing in different places. The one thing that has convinced me more than anything else though was the cartoon-like way that the pane melts into the building as if it isn't even there. There's a visible lack of structural deformation to the plane – in fact, there is none, and even more weirdly as the plane crashes into the building its left wing penetrates the building and the building apparently 'heals itself'. Basically, the wing has entered the building, and yet, the outer-wall of the building appears to be unscathed. Ace goes into more detail in the video below. I would recommend watching it, regardless of what your stance may be.

Their long-term objective is to supplant our experience of natural reality with an all-encompassing illusion of their own construction. 9/11 is just one aspect of this. They want to dictate reality to us wholesale and they have shown that they are willing to do whatever it takes to get the power that they need to do that, even if it means creating CGI-planes while at the same time creating an army of unquestioning jingoistic drones, who don't question 9/11 because questioning it equates to wrong-headedness and being a crazy tin-foil hat zealot. It seems to me as if the war is between two general groups that together make up the human race. One group cares about the truth and the other does not. The second group is populated by people who are willing to have their reality dictated to them by others in authority; the first group is populated by people who are not. The second group consists of people whose will is to commit spiritual suicide; the first consists of people who want to live to the full. These two groups are incompatible because they are living by different laws and everything that each side does constitutes an offence to the other. There is no way of their being reconciled to each other so long as they are all mixed up together in one society.

EDIT: Ace Baker's video is here: www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
BS:


Where did this 'photo' come from???????????????????????????????????

You know what, could it be that somebody snapped a photo of it shortly after the plane crashes... and then later after the towers collapsed and all of lower Manhattan was covered with dust so too was that plane engine?

And could it be possible that during all of the chaotic pandemonium of mobs of what I think might have been millions of people stampeding that the sign might have possibly got kicked by someone thus scooting it over ever so slightly? And then perhaps somebody else snapped a photo of it from a slightly different angle thus making it look a bit odd (if you're No Planer anways)??

NO WAY!

COVERUP!

THIS PROVES NO PLANES!

Now if I could only get my hands on one of those MIB "Flashy Thing" crowd memory erasers they used to mindwipe the witnesses who saw them plant that FAKE jet-crashed engine on the street corner. With one of those I could rule the world!!

Did you really expect somebody to guard that thing all day no matter what happened?

Did you know that pyroclastic clouds of hot debris, which many in your own camp refer to as mimicking volcanic eruptions, swept thru those streets? Maybe somebody should have glued the sign to the road right there... just in case.

I wonder how long it took them to snap that sign off the post, bend it like that and throw it down next to the engine.

How many individual conspirator technicians do you suppose worked on that specific street corner (alone)? I mean at least one guy had to work on the sign. And it would take more than one guy to push that engine of the flatbed truck. And if it didn't land right they might of had to flip it upright. Then theres the driver since they wouldnt even have the time for jostling in and out of vehicle doors. Oh and then there the guy who had to use the "MIB Flashy Thing" on all of the bystanders. Might have even taken a few even just for that part.

And how many lookouts do you think a street corner Op like that would require?

All of that and that was only one of their staged debris scenes they had to setup. And damn were they 'good' getting that timing down so perfect right out in the open street and all.

I don't know how you people take this so seriously, to the point that I blame your crowd for destroying the 911 Truth Movment. There was even a video that showed up back in the days I wasted time arguing with you people that showed actual plane parts land. I think they even landed on people. Thsi video was shot from street level. Was some seriously intense footage. Even when you showed this to your lunatic forebears they would just ignore it and not directly address the footage and would sidetrack, talk about something else as if nobody ever posted the video directed at them.

reply to post by Nathan-D


The thing the No Planers refused to consider in my experience is that even IF there was doctored footage, it doesn't prove theres was no planes. The more realistic scenarios in an all out true conspiracy is that they could doctor footage to further obfuscate inquiry, thus creating an even more impossible ordeal of endless public bickering, doubt, confusion, in-fighting, etc.

I've proposed in the past, before the No Planes things went nuts even, a list of evidence that there was deliberate intent by the Bush Admin no less to create such confusion:
Insanely Incredible Issues as Proof of a 9/11 Conspiracy

In that I pointed out how Rumsfeld even said "the missile that hit the Pentagon" which fueled that whole issue.

There's sense in the 'debunker' arguments that the larger the conspiracy the harder it is to cover it up. And its no surpise that they LOVE to focus ONLY on No Planes / Pentagon etc type theories. They hate to talk about the behind the scenes covert ops or geopolitical stuff. No Planes requires numerous out in the open broad daylight ground technicians. Multiple locations. Sophisticated cooridination and timing. The scene out in front of the Pentagon would have taken hundreds of workers HOURS to prepare like that. Before people say the highway scene in front of the Pentagon was staged I suggest they go out and do some actual construction work. Its hard, and things take time. Knocking lightpoles down, twisting them up, and dropping them onto cars out in the street ON A BUSY HIGHWAY DURING RUSHHOUR TRAFFIC ON A DAY WITH PERFECT VISIBILITY?????

Totally implausible to the point of insanity. Go do some actual physical construction people and you'll see that you can't just throw a scene like that together in 10 minutes. I mean even everyone inside the Pentagon would have to be in on it because they would have seen all those technicians out there doing it right from their windows. They would have had to have every car on the highways with actors in them.

And the same goes for New York. Literally thousands of specialized technicians. Yet none have come forward. Not one. This isn't even cloak and dagger technicians planting charges in utility shafts in the towers. This is out in the street in 2 of the busiest areas of the busiest cities in the US.

And then we have all the people in the newsrooms in on it? Surely one of the news technicians might have noticed their video feeds being hacked? Not totally implausible.

Now people might note they weren't using HiDef high speed cameras. Nor was anyone up close.

But I used to remark how there should be more footage out there from the bystanders then theres seems to be online.

I happen to have been privy to some of the highest quality footage of the newsfeeds. I helped Justin who runs 9/11 blogger assemble the complete set of the 'raw' forms of the videos Archive.org released. I've studied them, and even this footage sucks for if you wanted to do some real 'photo' analysis. Grainy artifacts are a big problem even with that footage. I've created raw film content with Sony Vegas that looks fine in the preview mode but when I render it odd ANNOYING artifacts would appear. Artifacts I couldn't get rid of because they were nowhere to be found in my composition layers. This was using software and computers designed several years before any of the technology on 9/11.

That's important to consider because every step of the way there are losses. Each piece of equipment, to each transmissions to other equipment, to the control room where they on-the-fly edit in all of the on screen information you see laid over the video. Then each time its compressed and decompressed, re-ecoded and put online.

I can say theres not too many people who have watched more footage than I have, at least for several years there. Go look at any of the random news footage from the street view. News cameras on that day weren't very sophisicated. Hidef wasn't even the standard yet. So to expect perfect footage is unreasonable.

And if you are trying to conduct a scientific investigation in addition to the best possible raw footage available (which I argue doesn't really exist) you also have to have 'controls', meaning taking seemingly mundane footage from that day and extensively studying it frame by frame trying to prove there are no similar artifacts and related quality issues.

The No Planers made this situation where instead of try and get public solidarity into new investigations and trials, instead we all need to chase our tails and study BS as I just proposed in my last sentence. Force us to waste our time proving them wrong when even IF they are right the general public is never going to believe it so instead of focus on the long list of actionable evidence we'll instead look like lunatics.

In another twist on Occam's Razor, why would the conspirators even want to hassle with all that ground technician work? Why not just crash the planes and get on with things? I can see the logic stating that they would have wired the towers to blow to ensure the planes would knock them down, to get their 'catalyzing event'.

But why employ thousands of laborers and technicians to go do all that work, while at the same time taking MAXIMUM POSSIBLE RISK in getting caught? Why not just crash the damn planes and get busy on war? They could have let the terrorist dupe patsies do it, or they very well could have flown them by wire. But WHY do all the rest?

To "control" our reality? They already do the masses are brainwashed from childhood. The towers fell and everyone waived flags and cheered sociopathic war drums and parroting. All that had to happen was some military die in the military HQ, and those iconic phallic towers full of hero firefighters come crashing down.

Uber elaborate no planes / micronukes / space beams / cutting edge CGI / street level hollywood movie magic special effects on the fly: all totally unecessary, totally risky, why bother?

And the more you bring on on the conspiacy now the more you have to bring in it after the fact to spy on the original guys to make sure they aren't going to talk. And now that you tell these spies what they trying to prevent them from saying now you have to worry about them. Or the national murder rate would have spiked in 2002. Has anyone looked to see if thousands more then the yearly average murder rate occured on the east coast? Probably not.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
“

Force us to waste our time proving them wrong when even IF they are right the general public is never going to believe it so instead of focus on the long list of actionable evidence we'll instead look like lunatics

That's very true. I understand what you mean and it's a good point. The no-planes hypothesis, whether it be true or not, is too out-there for the public to buy and Truthers will probably undermine the Truth Movement by promulgating it. It's true, and it's why I hardly bring the subject up when discussing 9/11. But also, as far as I'm aware, no-one to date has been able to prove mathematically with physics that there were no planes, despite claims to the contrary. Perhaps that day will come, I don't know. But for now, I agree with you, we should probably just let the 'no-planes' theory go and focus on the hard substantial irrefutable evidence such as the free-fall descent of WTC7. I still think that the plane looks like a cartoon, but you're right, maybe we should just leave it be, for now.