Pakistan 'set for emergency rule'

I like what they've done. It sounds good for Human morality. No violence, no militants televised, etc. etc. Sounds good to me. I'd sure like to live in peace and not have to see that instigative crap all the time... minus the army troops outside my house. Hey, all that needless crap does is program our minds toward violence anyway, well, those minds that are too weak to morally think for themselves and/or have been raised immoral.

I'm not sure what is going on... but it doesn't sound that bad.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Once again, the real question is where are you gonna get the troops? Can you depend on an army of poorly motivated conscripts to win a war like that?

They would probably just pull another 9/11 so that they would get a large number of people signing up again thinking they were being patriotic in the same way they did after 9/11

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

I'm not sure what is going on... but it doesn't sound that bad.

Wow! How can you say you don't have a clue and in the same breath have an opinion on the subject. Deny Ignorance and do a little research so you can add to the discussion.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I'm not sure what is going on... but it doesn't sound that bad.

“How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing!” - Neville Chamberlain

(At the start of world war II)

Originally posted by scrapple

Originally posted by soundofmurder
I agree with that. I am uncertain what nuclear capabilities that Pakistan currently has in their arsenal, as far as yield and delivery systems go.

SOM

Here's a little article from a few weeks ago that may help answer your above question.

www.guardian.co.uk...

A riveting read indeed!
But it doesn't do much to answer the original question I think.


Pakistan's current nuclear stockpile varies from 15-100 warheads. The majority seem to be in the 3-6KT range while a few are ~10-20 KT range(Hiroshima-Nagasaki).
Pakistan has not tested a thermonuclear device(hydrogen bomb +35-40KT) and probably doesn't have anything more powerful that 20-25KT.

Pakistan has two major weapons producing sites: Kahuta and recently Chasma. Primary fuel is plutonium which tends to make bomb construction more difficult and much more bulky.

As the article hints, The US delivered F-16s are reported to be wired for nuclear weapons release(free-fall drogue chute technique) although this cannot be confirmed with 100% certainity.
Pakistan has a ballistic missile arsenal ranging from ~200km to ~3000km.
This means it can target all of India, The entire ME incld Israel, The Red Sea African States and all of Central Asia.
Recent developments indicate the ability of low flying tomahawk-esque cruise missiles with a ~500km range.

Much external assistance has been obtained in both missile and nuclear technology especially from China(Many missiles are just renamed chinese models).

So Pakistan's nuke arsenal is quite large and diverse.
Again those who think that Pakistan ought to be 'spanked' like Iraq (and possibly Iran), let me make one thing clear: Pakistan is not like Iraq or Iran. They are probably militarily more capable than both these nations combined.
Due to miltiary upgrades in progress, in the next 5 years Pakistan will become 'un-spankable' from the invasion/regime change point.

Invading Pakistan would be suicidal. The armed forces aren't a bunch of neurotic fanatically driven, tactically devoid imbeciles. Nor are they the low-moral types that one has witnessed much over the last 50 years in the ME.
They are highly trained, highly professional, considerably technologically advanced and very proud(Note Mushy boy doesn't want American incursions on Pak soil even for anti-terror raids).

Pakistan is a different story altogether.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


What I'm saying is that I don't know what truly is going on and niether do any of you. So be carefull because now all those snippy little comments can be turned right back around onto you. Whatever it is it can't be that bad. I'd love to see all that junk taken off of our news networks too. It's violent and depressing brainwashing. It plays directly into the hands of the fearmongers. They should broadcast teletubbies and barney on every channel, it'd be great for the civilian morale and maybe the terrorists would learn something.

[edit on 4-11-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Daedalus and Scrapple, thank you for the information.

It would seem as though China would be really involved in this, being that they are one of Pakistan's closest allies. Could a possible war with China be a reason for the U.S. not wanting an all out war with Pakistan?

I surmise that there will be a heavy backlash at the Pakistani government by the militants it is trying to pursue, they are probably rolling out the car-bombs right now...

Flagged. This topic is of high interest to me. I can't wait to see how this whole situation resolves (if it does).

Originally posted by XFoxMulderX
Apparently, the White House advised Musharff not to set up a military state, and we know that Bush has him on a leash. I wonder how he got out of his leash.

One must never doubt the deception of the Great Trickster though.

Pakistani police have reputedly attacked lawyers who were protesting in the streets

Police have used tear gas and batons to break up demonstrations by Pakistani lawyers against the country's state of emergency.

BBC

This whole situation is worrying as it leaves the posibility for the pro taliban suporters (who are known to exist within pakistans inteligence comunity) to stir up trouble within their own country? who knows instead of sending taliban fighters from pakistans mountain regions into afganistan during the winter months when fighting will be hard going they may send them into pakistan instead to try to topple the goverment and open up the fighting on a second flank and in a larger scale?

Originally posted by solidshot

Thing's look to be getting more and more unstable in Pakistan by the day, not what you really want from a nation that has nukes? God forbid these fall into the hands of a group like the Taliban.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by solidshot]

Agreed, God forbid these fall into the hands of a group created, trained, and funded by the CIA. How awful.

www.greenleft.org.au...
www.rawa.org...

I guess GWB is going to speak and tell Musharraf to hold the elections.

U.S. to Musharraf: Hold elections

I am not up to speed on all this, but two things come to mind.

Musharraf has declared martial law and suspended elections, so publicly GWB has to denounce what he is doing, but secretly he is probably jealous and we should all take note that this kind of thing can happen. Hint..hint...

With all this unrest in a country with nuclear weapons, I think that is more dangerous than a somewhat stable country that doesn't have them yet.

I hope that Pakistan works out these issues and a civil war doesn't break out. I think that would be a first in history, a civil war in a country with nukes. Imagine for a moment a country that might nuke itself before all is said and done.

If Pakistan falls it will be at our full fault. We used the current government for our own goals and fake war on terrorists.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer is interviewing Benazir Bhutto as I type this message.

reply to post by anhinga


hi anhinga----sure am glad that our neighbours dont act the way we see on tv with the police hauling them off----the protesters.i feel bad for pervez musharraf since he seems to have some common sense----why the leaders of canada ,usa and britain want him out and a democracy instead is beyond my understanding since we seem to have a problem ourselves with our own crime and violence and sinking economy.why does the west feel pakistan needs democracy---so we can drag them down with us?from what i see of the muslim? protesters in the streets they dont want democracy and as soon as bush?etc. gives it to them ,they will overthrow it and bring in their muslim rule----and probably share their nukes with iran,hezbollah and hamas.i have to wonder what's gone wrong with the minds of our western leaders----they are starting to act as suicidal as israels present "leader" olmert.i never voted for a one of our leaders and i dont appreciate one bit being drug down the sewer with them.

I remember talking to my ex husband years ago about why Bhutto was here in London for so many years. And he replied that they would keep her here until they "needed her".

I think, IMHO that all this is the work of external powers.
They did the same thing in Iran. They got fed up of the Shah and brought back Khomenei.

I'm not saying Musharraf is a saint, but i certainly dont think this is all to do with him

Has this ever happened before in history?

I mean I know there have been coupes to overthrow governments, but has there ever been a government that's currently in power to initiate a coupe?

Funny.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Heres an interesting article

Pakistan shakes off US shackles

The pervasive impression is that the impending judgement by the Supreme Court regarding the propriety of President General Pervez Musharraf's re-election as president of Pakistan for another term prompted the timing of his decision to impose emergency rule last week. The temptation to view the developments in Pakistan through the prism of democracy is almost irresistible.

But democracy is not even a sub-theme in the current world of



realpolitik in Pakistan. At best it forms a miniscule part of the story. What emerges beyond doubt is that Musharraf's move enjoys the support of the top brass of the Pakistan armed forces. Significantly, he signed the proclamation on emergency rule in his capacity as the chief of army staff rather than as the president. He has thereby signaled that the Pakistan armed forces as a whole are backing his move.

Full Article

I keep telling people that it is no Iran with the potential (5 to 10 years) for nukes we need to worry about.... they have with or without the Mullah's a stable society.... It is Pakistan with a known 25 to 30 nuclear weapons (and the means to deliver them... already referring to them as the Islamic bomb) and a large unstable population, a large funnymentalist and extremist presence, known links to both Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and a military with, again, known sympathizers of them (the Taliban and Al Qaeda) in high positions, that we need to worry about.

NOW MORE THAN EVER. Musharraf is stirring up the hornet's nest and if he falls and Bhutto fails to gain control, odds are one of the other generals will sieze control and the U.S. had better watch out.

If the bush the idiot administration had any brains besides straw in their heads, they would be doing their damnest to come to some sort of accord with Iran and start paying serious attention to Pakistan.... but then again that is just a pipe dream.

Musharraf and el presidente Bush had a meeting on tv here not that long ago where Musharraf said the wrong thing to el presidente. I think Musharraf is going to be replaced by bhutto with the US blessings. I also see this as a test bed for US marshall law being enacted if an event were to occur here on the scale it has taken in pakistan.

El presidente bushco was on the news stating "Musharraf cannot be president and a military leader". Sounds like Musharraf lost a friend.