Socialist healthcare being demonised in the US?

It seems to me that its a very real possibility that Americans have been told from the media that socialized health care equals communism and less freedom? Is this true?

How much do you really know about how they do things in Canada, UK, France and most other countries? And are you right or have you been told lies?

Please share any stories you have with the American health care system and how it worked for you. I hear a lot of stories about people not being able to pay for their medicines or operations in the US for example... is this true?

In my country, and most other European countries, we pay nothing at all or very little for any operation or medicine we may need.


[edit on 25-10-2007 by Copernicus]

We have some sort of "socialist" health care here in the United States, do we not? I thought that was what Medicare, Medicaid, and government disability programs were? I think if we went to the extent Canada does, we'd be broke, because we already have an illegal federal income tax hitting some of us so hard we can barely breathe. Americans aren't with giving up their money for the benefit of another. Just bombs and bullets.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Americans aren't with giving up their money for the benefit of another.

I wonder if thats really true. Most Americans seem to be friendly and helpful to eachother, no? Dont you enjoy helping people when catastrophes such as 9/11 or Katrina hits your country? I see volunteers helping strangers all the time in those kind of scenarios. So isnt the average American a nice guy who likes to help the less fortunate?

If so, why doesnt the health care system work the same way?


[edit on 25-10-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus


Considering the widening gap between what it is to be poor and well off in this nation, no. I doubt you could get the majority of Americans to give up any percentage of their takehome to make it better for somebody else. It's already difficult for the "middle class" to get by. We don't need another health tariff because a politician thinks it will benefit people as a whole. The government itself has been shown time and time again how untrustworthy it is dealing with public spending. I couldn't imagine the kind of gross misuse of funds if they were given another portion of your average American's money.

I have no problem volunteering for any noble cause but I'm not about to hand my money over to any government institution, good intentions or not. They've abused every single ounce of trust that I may have ever instilled in them. Socialist healthcare program would be another wedge between rich and poor and I don't support such action, especially when it will be imposed if Hilary gets into office.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


How does things work in the US... you need to have health care insurance, right? And then if you are lucky, the insurance company pays for the medical bills when you get sick? But since the insurance company is trying to maximize its profits (like any corporation), isnt it difficult to get them to pay for a operation? It seems it would be in their economic interest to not pay for it.

And why is your government so unwilling to use the incoming money to pay for public health care, when most other countries think its the way it should be? Citizens in countries with social health care seems to feel that it feels good to have the security of free health care if they get sick or if any of their fellow citizens get sick. I know Im very glad I dont have to worry about money if I get ill.



[edit on 25-10-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus


It's less the government and more the people. Look at the United States. The giant living in the mountains is hurt... Our dollar is collapsing, we're 7 trillion dollars in debt, everyone in the past 5 years who bought a house, has to foreclose because of inflated market rates. We're in a silent struggle to just get by.

If they were to put such a plan in action, who's back do you think it would ride on? The ultra rich? Corporate America? The well to do? No.. As every social program, it rides on the back of the middle class. We are a pawn in every social dynamic because we work hard, and always pay up. It's this checkmate they have the middle class involved in that never seems to end.

Any new move that requires us to cough up more money would cripple the middle class for good. We have price gouging going on with milk, bread, meats, and especially gasoline. We can't pay 100 dollars in groceries a week and 100 dollars in gas, and then lug the weight of a nation on our backs as well.

There's a new fine line in America and the middle class is on a tight rope. This of course is only one very small aspect of why we wouldn't want a full blown social health care program in America and I need sleep before I make anymore delirious attempts. I'm sure I will WOW you tomorrow though with a few hours rest. Hahaha.

Americans are cutting corners, extreme everything, drug doin, backyard wrestling, over eating folk, blah blah ...WE hurt all the time. HAlf of us are stupid. Check out your local home depot.
Check out our leader. HE was re-elected. THis serves as the foundation for your question, make the connection: We do not know what is good for ourselves, so how do we have the brain power or will to vote for leaders or bills on what is good for us? You might be surrounded by some educated people but take a better look around. Good post.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
If they were to put such a plan in action, who's back do you think it would ride on? The ultra rich? Corporate America? The well to do? No.. As every social program, it rides on the back of the middle class. We are a pawn in every social dynamic because we work hard, and always pay up. It's this checkmate they have the middle class involved in that never seems to end.

Any new move that requires us to cough up more money would cripple the middle class for good. We have price gouging going on with milk, bread, meats, and especially gasoline. We can't pay 100 dollars in groceries a week and 100 dollars in gas, and then lug the weight of a nation on our backs as well.

Well, the way it works in my country (Sweden), everybody lets at least 32% of their money go back to the government as income tax. If you are rich, the percentage goes up and you pay a bit more. That pays for our health care, roads, police, fire departments and everything the government takes care of.

Whats your income tax in the US? Is it more expensive to get by in the US perhaps? There must be some reason you are struggling to just get by... its not like that here.

Originally posted by SKunkyCharms
Americans are cutting corners, extreme everything, drug doin, backyard wrestling, over eating folk, blah blah ...WE hurt all the time. HAlf of us are stupid. Check out your local home depot.

All of those things sounds like symptoms of not feeling good about yourself or your life to me. I know that when you are depressed, you tend to overeat for example. I really do feel sad hearing that you guys are hurting all the time. It seems very unfair.

Originally posted by SKunkyCharms
Check out our leader. HE was re-elected. THis serves as the foundation for your question, make the connection: We do not know what is good for ourselves, so how do we have the brain power or will to vote for leaders or bills on what is good for us? You might be surrounded by some educated people but take a better look around. Good post.

Yes, we do have a good education system here. I think they do in most of Europe too, and Canada. Schools are free, going to the universities is free. We do have student loans at low interest rates funded by the government so people can take loans while studying at a university (since you need to pay your rent on your apartment and for food unless you live with your parents). You get about 33% of the money for free from the government and you borrow about 67%.

I think the education system in America is intentionally dumbing you guys down and making you think there is no better ways of doing things... but this thread is more about me trying to understand why you have the system you do.


[edit on 25-10-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus


I would love to visit Sweden. They're a true nation of wealth as opposed to ours being a nation of debt and false wealth. You wouldn't believe the contrast between your nation and the United States of America in terms of taxing and corporate favoritism. They nail our ass to the wall every chance they get.

If you could get BeachComa after this, I'm sure he could blow your mind with some statistics.

For a personal example, I was working for a major contractor making close to $80,000.00 dollars a year at 19 years old. I'm a white male, single household, and I was in a state that didn't require state tax because of the gambling industry. I was making close to 2000 dollars a week and was getting taxed 400+ (max 553.00 to fed one week) dollars every week that went to federal income tax ALONE. For my personal benefits I was paying $126.00 for health (non smoker/non drinker), $61.00 for vision, and $32.00 for dental.

Sweden and America are too different beasts. And a good point was also raised by Skunkycharms about the health of your average American. We're worse off than a lot of nations due to our neverending hunger for all things terrible for us.

It's a whole can of worms and I haven't even opened them yet. I'm excited to see what people with more than an hour of sleep have to say about the subject.

yes, socialized healthcare is being demonized in america... of course anything with the word "socialized" or "socialist" would be... because americans are ignorant enough to fall for the "OMG COMMUNISM!" argument against it

i'm in malta right now, we have socialized healthcare (5th best healthcare system in the world according to WHO) and it works really well. the USA could probably do it better, the problem is that there's too much at stake in the healthcare INDUSTRY to do it

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
For a personal example, I was working for a major contractor making close to $80,000.00 dollars a year at 19 years old. I'm a white male, single household, and I was in a state that didn't require state tax because of the gambling industry. I was making close to 2000 dollars a week and was getting taxed 400+ (max 553.00 to fed one week) dollars every week that went to federal income tax ALONE. For my personal benefits I was paying $126.00 for health (non smoker/non drinker), $61.00 for vision, and $32.00 for dental.

Sweden and America are too different beasts. And a good point was also raised by Skunkycharms about the health of your average American. We're worse off than a lot of nations due to our neverending hunger for all things terrible for us.

2000 dollars in a week (!). Thats a lot of money. Most people here who have a university degree start out with 3000 dollars per MONTH as salary. The ones who choose to not study gets maybe 2000 dollars per month. Salaries go up with time and experience of course, but not more than maybe 3% per year or so.

Still, you are pretty rich with 3000 dollars per month here, since all you really need to pay for is your apartment or mortgage and food. We dont pay extra for health, vision, dental or stuff like that. I did some math on your example, and you seem to pay about 619 out of 2000 dollars every week for that stuff, which is about 30%... our income tax of 32% covers stuff like those things for everybody. So maybe its the same thing really, except you get to choose if you want these things or not.

I agree, the two countries are very different beasts, but when you have people struggling to get by in the US, something must be wrong...

anyone care to explain to me just who is complaining about our healthcare system in american, and their lack of access to it? It definately isn't the poor families, they have a whole slew of government programs helping them...so, just who is it?

I think alot of those that are affected by our system ARE the middle class. the poorest among us, they have their needs taken care of by the government, the richest amoung us can afford the care they need....
it's the lower middle class that has to deal with losing their insurance when they get laid off, or switch jobs, being denied coverage for pre-existing conditions for an obnoxiously long time, not being able to cover their entire family because of the high rates for family plans ect.
the poor have their socialized medicine, and it is being paid for by middle class america, but, as more and more of these middle class americans find themselves in the predicament of actually needing the healthcare, but having be denied because they aren't insured and don't have the money up front to pay, well, it's like this, either find a way for them to get the care they need, or quit taking their danged money from them for someone else's care! Fair is Fair!!

Whatever we do, if we don't cut the cost of this care down, our healthcare system is gonna drag us down financially. state and local governments, companies, and the people are having a very difficult time covering it!

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Yes, I think a lot of the information you get to hear from the media in the US is not accurate. Even Cuba has fantastic health care for people, and thats like the worst enemy of the US...

reply to post by Copernicus


Trust me. The money wasn't worth wasting my life away at a job, I didn't necessarily like. Life is bigger than any piece or amount of paper.

reply to post by dawnstar


Exactly what I'm saying. I wouldn't say that the lower class have this lavish health accessibility, because that's not the case.

Furthermore, I think the power the industry has over the people in this country is outrageous. Just because it's "healthCARE" doesn't mean it's curing or caring for anything. Once you get into the intricate world of healthcare, you'll see what a tangled web it truly is.

Originally posted by dawnstar
it's the lower middle class that has to deal with losing their insurance when they get laid off, or switch jobs, being denied coverage for pre-existing conditions for an obnoxiously long time, not being able to cover their entire family because of the high rates for family plans ect.
the poor have their socialized medicine, and it is being paid for by middle class america, but, as more and more of these middle class americans find themselves in the predicament of actually needing the healthcare, but having be denied because they aren't insured and don't have the money up front to pay, well, it's like this, either find a way for them to get the care they need, or quit taking their danged money from them for someone else's care! Fair is Fair!!

Whatever we do, if we don't cut the cost of this care down, our healthcare system is gonna drag us down financially. state and local governments, companies, and the people are having a very difficult time covering it!

Well, when you walk into a hospital here, they dont use pre-existing conditions as a way to charge you more money. They use it to give you better treatment and medicines. And we have no insurances... everybody has the same health care. Rich or poor.

It must feel horrible to be denied health care when you really need it... what are people supposed to do? What do you do if you need that surgery but dont have the money?

Well, when you walk into a hospital here, they dont use pre-existing conditions as a way to charge you more money. They use it to give you better treatment and medicines. And we have no insurances... everybody has the same health care. Rich or poor.

It must feel horrible to be denied health care when you really need it... what are people supposed to do? What do you do if you need that surgery but dont have the money?

It's called "in house financing." Hahahahaha

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Trust me. The money wasn't worth wasting my life away at a job, I didn't necessarily like. Life is bigger than any piece or amount of paper.

I agree, and thats kind of the same feeling most Swedes have as well. You would like it here.

But for good health care, you could probably just go to Canada. They seem to accept Americans too. I watched that Michael Moore movie Sicko, and he took some people to Canada to give them health care. Didnt seem to be a problem.


[edit on 25-10-2007 by Copernicus]

I called my state legislature and gave him heck, told him the whole system was unconstitutional, ect....he called my doctor, and well after a short while of talking to my legislator, the doctor was calling me back, forgetting about the $2,000 down he wanted for the surgery, and well, making arrangements for the surgery....

of course, I still got a bill afterward for a grand total of $20,000 plus....for a broken ankle, but well, I can still walk...and work.

that's what gets me about this, and I did talk to this to my legislature. the way things are now, they don't support the working people when they need help, but then, when their lack of support causes that person to be handicapped and unable to work, well, ya, they don't seem to have that big of a problem with that one....
they want us to be all unproductive poor slobs!