I Don't Know Where You Live....

But where I am it doesn't seem like the America people speak of on ATS.

Policemen and security guards and such aren't going around beating, tasing or shooting people for no reason. They help those in need of help.

People's rights aren't being taken away. People wear what they want, do what they please.

No one (so it seems) thinks the government has evil plans to take over the world.

Those are just a few things I can think of now, but there are more. When I read many posts on ATS about how many things are going wrong with America I think to myself, this doesn't seem like the same place I live in. Sure there are problems, but I think many things get blown out of proportion. Or maybe it really is as bad as that, and this one place happens to be ok.

Is your town the same? Different? Is it the America ATS speaks of, or not? Do you think towns like mine are the minority?

My post is just aimed towards America because...I live here...but you could switch it to any country. Is it really as bad as it seems from posts on here?

What could possibly be wrong with you? If you don't think where you live is going completely to hell, that you're losing your rights, that authority exists only to brutalize and steadily increase its control over the populace, you must not be living in the real world. Come on man, deny ignorance. LOL.

You get a star and flag from me. Life in general where I live in the Midwest of the U.S. of A. doesn't seem all that terrible or scary. Granted, it's not static. Problems arise, problems are addressed. Poverty levels rise and fall. Crimes rates rise and fall. Occasionally a cop beats somebody up, more often a cop saves a life. Politicians get elected and if they suck, someone else gets a chance.

In no way do I see life where I live in some sort of scary downward spiral. I think life's pretty damn good. The war, the economy, the national debt, these things are certainly very concerning, but they are not going to bring this country to it's knees.

But what do I know, I'm sure many here would say I'm just one of the sheeple. Working hard in my own business, raising my daughter, loving my wife, voting my conscience, paying my bills, and trying to have some nice things and few laughs along the way.

I'm not suffering from much anxiety.

I must say that I havent had the displeasure of experiencing America as it is relayed through ATS.

Here in the Mile High City, cops do not tase old grannies on walkers, nor do they pepper spray babies. What they do do is make sure that the gang elements stay calm and dont try killing each other, or for that matter the public, as well as keep the homelss population at bay while maintaining order. In this case, they do indeed "Protect and Serve" the people.

I have yet to whitness any of these gross episodes which I believe are one off events that are bound to occur with such a random and varied compilation of people. These crazy things only happen when people go a little off the deep and and/or use their power and authority in a negative manner.

reply to post by enjoies05


well, i know where i live isn't america (anymore), but from what i know from when i lived in america... you are losing your rights. it's not like they're rights that you'll readily notice are gone, but they're still gone. not stuff that alters the day to day, but when it matters those rights won't be there.

you can be detained at will, so long as you are labeled an "enemy combatant"
your every move can be tracked without even going through any judiciary process
you no longer have the right to assemble a protest where you wish if the president is in town

it's quite obvious that you're losing rights

Things are mixed. Meaning somethings are good, and some need a lot of work.
Without a doubt I firmly believe this is the greatest nation on earth.

I also believe that there are things happening in the United States that are truely alarming, and people need to pay attention to what our elected leaders are up to. I have the feeling we've been sold out.

It will take massive change to undo the damages we've allowed to happen but even with that in mind I don't see it as bad is some around here think it has become. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Jules

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by enjoies05

 

you can be detained at will, so long as you are labeled an "enemy combatant"
your every move can be tracked without even going through any judiciary process

How many enemy combatants do you know?

Gays have more rights now then they ever have. Only 30 years ago women couldn't have a legal abortion. 50 years ago a black kid couldn't attend the same school as me or use the same bathroom or sit at the same lunch-counter. As it stand's right now a black man and a woman are the leading candidates for the Democratic nomination.

Kent State, Eugene Debs, Japanese internment.

History is against the argument that "the country is going to hell". I suggest that some of you look into the policies of Woodrow Wilson during World War I if you wan't to see some scary stuff.

Originally posted by PistolPete
How many enemy combatants do you know?

i don't know... but still, it doesn't matter if i know them or not.
due process, it's a RIGHT

Gays have more rights now then they ever have.

yet they really aren't considered equal citizens...

Only 30 years ago women couldn't have a legal abortion. 50 years ago a black kid couldn't attend the same school as me or use the same bathroom or sit at the same lunch-counter. As it stand's right now a black man and a woman are the leading candidates for the Democratic nomination.

and the most talked about things with both of them aren't the issues... it's their status as a woman and a black man...
hmm

Kent State, Eugene Debs, Japanese internment.

History is against the argument that "the country is going to hell". I suggest that some of you look into the policies of Woodrow Wilson during World War I if you wan't to see some scary stuff.

oh, i never said it hasn't been worse, but it's getting closer to that type of stuff.

hell, look at the current trends against 10-20% of the population, atheists. they're being regularly demonized for attempting to become an outspoken segment of the population.

and america will remain in a frightening state of affairs until its citizens stop claiming that it is the world's greatest nation, something it does exclusively.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

and the most talked about things with both of them aren't the issues... it's their status as a woman and a black man...
hmm

That's simply not true. There are threads in these forums right now talking about Hillary's health care ideas and her wanting to pay people to have babies. Her being a woman has not been mentioned.

Most of the talk about Obama focuses on his inexperience and his position on Iraq. I don't see much talk about him being a black candidate.

oh, i never said it hasn't been worse, but it's getting closer to that type of stuff.

hell, look at the current trends against 10-20% of the population, atheists. they're being regularly demonized for attempting to become an outspoken segment of the population.

So when you say it's been worse you're saying we once had fewer rights? Then are you saying we have more rights than we ever did? Yet you say we're losing our rights. What are you saying?

Some people may complain about atheists if they speak out, but I notice they almost always get their way in this country in regards to the issue of church and state.

and america will remain in a frightening state of affairs until its citizens stop claiming that it is the world's greatest nation, something it does exclusively.

What's wrong with thinking you live in the greatest nation on Earth, and why does citizens believing that cause a frightening state of affairs? Don't you think you live in a great nation? If you don't, why do you live there? I can't think of anywhere else I would want to live, so to me that makes the U.S. the greatest nation.

Things are not all too bad here in the old U.S. of A. We're not about to become a police state. Gays, women, and blacks will see their lives continue improve. George Bush is not going to declare martial law and stay the President. Thousands of U.S. citizens are not going to be named enemy combatants and be imprisoned for no reason, and the government is not going to drop a nuclear weapon on its own country just to start a war somewhere in the desert.

Many people on this website believe these things will happen, but they won't. It's fun to read their opinions, but I take it all with a grain of salt. If they started to happen people would quickly fill the streets.

We'll most likely end up with a new Democratic President with a majority Congress backing him or her (shudders at the thought of Hillary), and in three or four years there will be a whole new set of problems with which to deal, but the U.S. of A. will keep rolling along.

In the long run the quality of life for American citizens will continue to improve.

But what do I know, I'm just one of the Sheeple.



[edit on 2-10-2007 by Musky]

Originally posted by Musky
That's simply not true. There are threads in these forums right now talking about Hillary's health care ideas and her wanting to pay people to have babies. Her being a woman has not been mentioned.

Most of the talk about Obama focuses on his inexperience and his position on Iraq. I don't see much talk about him being a black candidate.

ATS really doesn't represent the discussion of the candidates at large. sure, at this point a lot of the talk about their position as "odd" candidates has subsided... but it was the biggest thing up until recently, and it is still brought up. when obama's experience is questioned people say that he's only so popular because he's... black. and people are still talking about exactly how black he is.

hillary, people still talk about what would happen to bill if she wins...

So when you say it's been worse you're saying we once had fewer rights? Then are you saying we have more rights than we ever did? Yet you say we're losing our rights. What are you saying?

no, i'm not saying we have more rights than we ever did. i think americans had more rights under clinton than we do now. yes, i'm saying we once had fewer rights, but it doesn't logically follow that we have more rights than we ever did.

Some people may complain about atheists if they speak out, but I notice they almost always get their way in this country in regards to the issue of church and state.

...no, the CONSTITUTION gets its way

What's wrong with thinking you live in the greatest nation on Earth, and why does citizens believing that cause a frightening state of affairs?

because no country is the greatest nation on earth
and extreme nationalism is scary...

Don't you think you live in a great nation?

yeah, malta is damn sweet, but i wouldn't call it the greatest nation. america WAS a great nation to live in... though currently i don't live there.

If you don't, why do you live there? I can't think of anywhere else I would want to live, so to me that makes the U.S. the greatest nation.

then you really don't know about the rest of the world.
why wouldn't you want to live in...
france?
england?
malta?
cyprus?
spain?
japan?
sweden?

can you actually give good reasons?
can you justify why america is so much better than any of those countries?

Things are not all too bad here in the old U.S. of A. We're not about to become a police state.

yet all the pieces are in place for a fascist state...

Gays, women, and blacks will see their lives continue improve.

except the gays that still get beaten in hate crimes, the women who still earn less for every dollar men make, and the jena 6 who are charged with attempted murder for a simple fist fight.

George Bush is not going to declare martial law and stay the President.

that's clear, but there's more than one way to fascism than a dictatorship

Thousands of U.S. citizens are not going to be named enemy combatants and be imprisoned for no reason,

and you don't care about the thousands of foreign citizens that are being deprived of their rights under international law?

and the government is not going to drop a nuclear weapon on its own country just to start a war somewhere in the desert.

true, they'll just drop a nuke on iran.

Many people on this website believe these things will happen, but they won't. It's fun to read their opinions, but I take it all with a grain of salt. If they started to happen people would quickly fill the streets.

yea, in a country where a sad number of people can't locate canada on the map, people will really take action.
that's believable.

We'll most likely end up with a new Democratic President with a majority Congress backing him or her (shudders at the thought of Hillary), and in three or four years there will be a whole new set of problems with which to deal, but the U.S. of A. will keep rolling along.

and america will most likely continue to piss off the world and break international law for its own benefit.

In the long run the quality of life for American citizens will continue to improve.

nope, i'm going to disagree with this. because it isn't currently improving.

The area that you live in is small, you can see mabye a few square miles from your position, and the entire country is millions of square miles! In the past, people were only concered with what is happening in thier neiborhoods, and with the Internet, our neigborhood has streached over the entire country.

The ATS Nation, we have come together as a community, and we cover millions of square miles. When a steam pipe blows up in New York, our nieborhood hears about it. When a cop beats one of our nieghboors in St. Loius, we hear about it.

There has always been horrible acts in the world, in the past, people could only be concered with what was happening around them, now, the whole world is around us, and tragic news sells, so when some college kid gets Tazered in Florida, we hear about it. We hear about it that day, right away, before we can even see it on the news.

That is why this place is so great, you just have to take the bad with the beautiful. The overall direction of America is still strong, while thier is undoubtably an increase in unrest.

And, on the topic of parts of America, no longer seeming like America, oh man do i feel you there, here in CaliMexifornia, the state has become a 2nd world country, a terrible mix of the Best of the First world, and the worst of the 3rd, there is at least one moment a day were i just have to take a deep breath, and calm down. But this country is still great, and all the methods to bring her back to her fullist glory are in place.

Spread the word to the sheeppeople.

It is places like this, where we can discuss what is going on in this world. The media has failed us, we must educate ourselves on what is going on.

reply to post by enjoies05


enjoies05, I must live in your neighborhood, things are so similar!

One thing I've noticed is that very often the cries of how evil and corrupt the US are come from people who don't even live here. That tells me a lot.

Right on Enjoies, Musky, Jsobecky, etc

I have yet to see a cop beat the living # out of someone, taze old ladies in wheelchairs and pepper spray little babies yet according to some here on ATS you would think its all the cops do all day. I have however seen New York state troopers giving CPR and mouth to mouth to a little girl that was in a car crash and was clearly already gone yet the 2 troopers were still determined to try everything possible to try and save this little girl, I have seen a Suffolk County Sheriff's deputy comfort a stabbing victim at my school while waiting for backup and an ambulance and I have read dozens of stories of other Suffolk County sheriff's deputies and county police officers running into burning buildings to save people, rescue drowning victims, look for missing children, etc etc etc

I just think that all the people who do nothing but "cops are evil" blah blah blah are really just dirtbags who are angry that the cops stand in their way and need to find an excuse to moan about it. 99.5% of cops are good honest hardworking men and women who want nothing better then to help people and go home to their families and friends. People also need to realize that the cops dont make the laws, they just enforce them. If you dont like the fact that pot is illegal then complain to the politicians.

I just think that all the people who do nothing but "cops are evil" blah blah blah are really just dirtbags who are angry that the cops stand in their way and need to find an excuse to moan about it. 99.5% of cops are good honest hardworking men and women who want nothing better then to help people and go home to their families and friends. People also need to realize that the cops dont make the laws, they just enforce them. If you dont like the fact that pot is illegal then complain to the politicians.

There ya go Chris that's a good summary of what I see around ATS; bash the cops, and whine about how they can't legally get stoned. Wahhh.
The stereotyping is annoying and inaccurate. ALL cops are crooked and evil. Everything the United States does is evil, greedy, and corrupt. Those poor enemy combatants... boohoo....
The armchair quarterbacks are good at complaining but what are they doing to make it better? (getting high doesn't count)
Cops and politicians don't hover sanctimoniously over their commodes, they sit and stand like everyone else.
Do something to contribute and work towards change for the better.
Jules

As Jsobecky said, enjoies neighborhood sounds remarkably like mine. Strange that...

I think I live in the greatest nation on Earth, and I really don't care if anyone agrees with me or not. Actually I do care, but not enough to let it bother me for long .

I'm not blind to this nations faults, far from it. But neither am I blind to its many positive attributes. For every fault there are many positives.

Given the number of threads concerning the "evil" police, you would think we'd all have seen something like that ourselves, but other than my own encounter with a law enforcement person in love with himself (and I won that one), I've never feared the cops were out to get me, and given my habit of pissing off powers that be, I should think I'd have had something cross my path. Hmmmm...maybe I'm not trying hard enough?

Thanks for the replies. I knew I wasn't the only one who could think this.

reply to post by enjoies05


You are not alone, mi amigo!

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, to be sure, but let that become paranoia and you'll wind up at the funny farm.

An occasional breath of fresh air around here is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[edit on 2007/10/4 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I know that every morning I wake up and my neighbors haven't been ethnically cleansed.

I know I can walk down the street and not be afraid of a bomb going off.

I know I can practice the religion of my choice without fear for my life.

I've never been harrassed by a police officer, other than when I was in high school and was in fact, probably up to something.

I've never been afraid of being shot.

With all that being said, of course there are crooked cops. Of course the US has it's share of domestic problems and foreign policy that many of us disapprove of. There aren't many people that live here that think every thing is just peachy. Every nation that's a power or has ever been one has blood on its hands. And that's the terrible truth.

But what the point of the OP was isn't that "this is the greatest nation on earth", it's that the horrible events that are occuring in the US are all gathered and placed on ATS so as to paint a picture that isn't an accurate one of what it's really like here.

Of course these are things that people all need to know about. But the prevailing idea that people are getting snatched off the street for no reason and beaten by the police and detained indefinitely without charges is just absolutely, patently false.

And yes, things have been worse here. Things have been better here. There's no reason to believe that the ebb and flow that the nation has had over the last 230 years is going to just stop and we're going to do nothing but decline.

Okay so the U.S. may not be as bad as the last dramatic video played out on t.v. But nothing and no one is as good as their best day or as bad as their worst day. The reality is somewhere in between the two.

But from where I sit it looks like this:

Is America still the most free country on earth? Yes.

Are we as free as we used to be? No. Want to argue? Let's talk about the Patriot Act or the Fairness Doctrine.

Let's talk about how right now Tennesee and Georgia are cracking down on citizens who exercise their rights to move freely around this country. Citizens of these two states who bring back cigarettes from other states are being targeted for "circumventing" the sales tax. I abhor smoking and this makes me furious. I'm sorry, I thought this was America. I thought we enjoyed a free market and unchecked travel. How soon until we have to show documentation at interstate borders? I would not have asked such a far-fetched question six months ago but things seem to be changing fast.

What about a college kid asking a question? Don't even get me started on all of those obvious injustices.

What about ammo? I don't care for guns but if I want to own one and need ammo I should not be restricted from buying more than a certain amount without documentation. This is happening.

To the OPS point about police and crime, etc. The police are not concerned with the complacent citizens in suburbia. That is not the flashpoint for most issues or crime. But just as soon as there is an issue or dissent or insurrection in suburbia, you will find out just how quickly your civil rights can dissipate. Ask anyone in the greater New Orleans area, not just the city. Or anyone in Los Angeles at this summer's protest. Ask the Jena 6.

My point is...we have to shine light on all incidences of oppression nationwide because next time it might be me or you. Just because it is not happening where you are doesn't mean it can't or won't.

Or anyone in Los Angeles at this summer's protest.

You mean the illegal immigrants and their supporters that were advocating revolting against and overthrowing the US government? Quite frankly we could have charged every single one of those people with treason and hanged them ... but instead we let them go free.

Ask the Jena 6.

You mean the dirtbags that jumped a kid and beat him for no reason and then used the noose incident to try and justify it even though the kid that was attacked had NOTHING to do with the nooses?

reply to post by ChrisF231


Hey I get your perspective and to a large extent I agree with it. You don't have to raise a red flag with me about immigration, illegal or otherwise - I'm all over it.

But - in a broader sense, my point was that there is a trend in the U.S. at this point in our history, for the government to consolidate power, maintain un-due control and deny basic civil liberties.