IS America Mystery babylon the great?

1. Babylon would be noted for its architecture, buildings and skyline (Isaiah 13:22)

22And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Are you honestly going to tell me this is about a nation being noted for its architecture? This is a BIG FAT LIE.


3. Is the most respected and envied around the world and yet at the same time is hated by the world. (Isaiah 18:2)

2That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!

THIS is being hated and envied at the same time? NO this is a BIG FAT LIE!
THIS is a unique and remarkable beginning????? All it says is that they were TERRIBLE from their beginning. BIG FAT LIE!


13. Babylon has a huge aviation program (Isa 14:13-14;
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
THIS IS AN AVIATION PROGRAM????????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? It’s talking about SATAN, can’t you see the verse before it???? THIS IS A HUUUUUUUUUUUGEE BIIIIG FAAAAAT LIIIIIIIIEEEE!!!!!

Do not cling to old wine skins. Knowledge is increasing, the Catholic Church is not. Let this video clear up any confusion you may have on this issue.

I don't think America is Mystery Babylon because everything has been accomplished in The Revelations. Maybe except for Jesus' second coming to the earth(?) but that's debatable because God is with us already. There are several things to back up my viewpoint such as merchant cargoes of: "purple (mollusk extract),cinnamon,many things made out of ivory,horses and carriages. These are all ancient cargoes. The value of things has changed over the centuries. For example shipments of raw plastic (plastic pellets) or computer chips are more valuable and are traded more abundantly.
Other parts of revelation reveal that armies will gather and surround places, these things would be tactical fallacies with today's gps satellite, instantaneous communication battlefield awareness and wmds wiping out said army before even getting the chance to gather or surround said places and things. Of course these things make perfect sense...because all these happened back then.
If The Revelation is sort of scattered around all over the place then I suppose maybe a Nephilim giant vs man type of war could be cobbled together but that would really be stretching the imagination. The interesting thing about this is if all these things happened then what time period are we in right now in relation to The Revelations? What would witnessing and prophesying constitute as? If for example somebody prophesies and witnesses either inside or outside religious pretexts wouldn't that "add" to The Revelations since there is a definite albeit very poetic type of "ending" found in the end verses.
If there would be a key to understanding The Revelations then I think it would be the parable of the talents and it shows that its not good reading into things too much, a horse is a horse of course of course.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Firestorm]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Firestorm]

(it posted it again for some reason - remove)



[edit on 12-12-2008 by Firestorm]

reply to post by Ethiopia21


America is the false prophet and Rome is the Mystery Babylon you must recall that Mystery Babylon was a WOMAN, in the prophetic context a woman is a church. And she sits upon a beast with a cup of the fornications of the world and the blood of the saints and martyrs. Catholic Inquisition is the blood of the saints.

The U.S. is certainly looking like that mystery Babylon if one doesn't decipher the prophecy words correctly. We are in Babylon of Old and we have rebuilt upon the foundations of the Babylon of old, but the Bible said that the city would be rebuilt one day and be destroyed again, and this time FOREVER.

There are those that feel that because Bush is President (King) of the U.S. and controls ancient Babylon now in Iraq that he must be the Biblical King of the NEW Babylon and the King of the OLD. But Barack will have this distinction soon so it's a bad interpretation in my opinion.

America will fall, I just agree with Lincoln that it will fall from within and not without...

i'm leaning to the interpetation that the 'Mystery -Babylon'
is indeed 'religion' (not faith/belief/spirituality...)
and the False Prophet, is actually the working-partner of 'Mystery'...
and during the different eras of mankind the FalseProphet
wore many different mantles->
sometimes it was Patriotism, sometimes it was Monarchy or Democracy,

but in this era, i see Fascism, the kind done by Nazi Germany, as recovering from that
prophecied mortal head wound (WWII) and in turn
taking over the USA->(in incremental stages )
ever since Eisenhower warned us of the Military-Industrial-Complex.

Yes, the war-mongering, hegemonic USA globalists have become the FalseProphet partner of the 'MysteryBabylon' harlot...under the false belief that they are the world's Salvation


Pacon... people

[edit on 12-12-2008 by St Udio]

You're clinging to antiquated notions of the real world and the Catholic church's influence upon it. If you feel justified in using one symbolic reference of Mystery Babylon as a woman as conclusive evidence that she is a church over the abundance of literal descriptions of her as a great city, which has enormous economic and cultural influence over the world, then you have cast aside wisdom for foolishness, and will not recognize the end of days as they come upon you. The Catholic church has been and will continue to wane as will faith in God in general. The end times are not characterized by a resurgence of the church but by a great falling away from God into atheism, which is the fastest growing "religion" or system of beliefs today.

I would agree with a previous poster on this thread, that there is a lot confused people responding here. I hope I can help clear up some the confusion.
I like many was taught in the traditonal church that mystery babylon was the Roman Catholic church. Upon further research in prophecy it becomes clear that it is not. to answer this for yourself you must read Rev 17-18, Isiah 47, Jerimiah 50-51. Then ask yourself these questions.

Babylon is obviously a great seaport. Where is this great roman port?
Rome is land locked.
It is obviously a geographic location. Ships travel to and from it.
If Rome (The Catholic Church) were deystoryed. Would the world really envoke a reaction like the world population did in Rev. 18? I dont think so. (esp. muslims and buddishts, etc.)
Rome is the city of seven hills , not 7 mountains(or mountain ranges).

To those who think mystery babylon is Iraq or rebuilt ancient Babylon, consider what Jeramiah writes it will never be inhabited again, not even temporarily, also there will not even a foundation stone to take from the babylon that he is writing about. This Babylon is of the future, because ancient Babylon was not deystoyed "in 1 hour" or by "unprecedented warfare". ancient babylon has always been inhabited by one or anther tribes or peoples. Jeramiah's propheseies regarding Babylon remain unfulfilled to this day and are related to Rev 17-18.

These are points about Mystery Babylon you should also consider that are implied by the scriptures.
It is huge economic power and the greatest consumer nation in the world.
It is also the most powerful country in the world. It lives delisiously and has much agriculture and (implies an abundance of food).
It is relatively untouched by war. (she is or was delicate)
She is a mixture of ethnic groups (a melting pot).
She is home to many Jews.
She is militarily very powerful ( the hammer of the world).

I believe also though, it is a system. What revalation 18 is talking about is obviously a materialistic system (capitalism) that is destroyed. This happens when the economic engine of the world (the USA) , is deystoyed. This in effect has become a religion of materialism. Have you ever heard the term "sold your soul" to a company when talking about a persons occupation. It has intoxicated the rest of the world (with its marketing & pop culture) to also pursue its "dream". It is a love of money religious system.
The seven mountains are her foundation. Look at the previious verses talkin about a mixture of kindreds & touges. It is speaking in light of Babylon enthinic foundation. The seven ethnic groups that found or settle the nation. 7 european countries that are the same main EU countries the are also the 7 heads of the Beast. There is Mother(EU) and a daughter babylon (USA). The mother watches the daughter burn and is humilated.
The mother babylon is deystroyed by God directly in the judgements of Revalation.
Mystery Babylon is a city, a country (or group of countries), a system and in the end an evil oppressive religous system.


PS to Firestorm - You have too much faith in technology. Nuclear war that may be coming would knock-out most electronics. This includes GPS satelittes. The Van Allen Belt where satelittes reside would become radioactive from nukes exploded in the upper atmosphere to create EMP
attacks. A war of this type would knock most of us back to the stone age. Of course the powers that be will still have the means to control, function and manipulate.

im quoting myself from another thread almost identical to this one.

¨regarding the identity of the harlot... you must first understand babylon in order to understand why the comparison is being made

¨the two babylons¨ by rev hislop is a very interesting read on this topic

you can read a digital copy here - www.biblebelievers.com...

basically he compares teachings in the church and how closely these elements that are not in the bible seem to be linked with ancient babylon.

this babylon the great is greater than the RCC.

ancient babylon was built in open defiance to god. nimrod wasnt building a city and starting his own religion out of ignorance. he would have known about the flood and god´s prophecy about a coming seed. he would have understood mankinds need for a ransom, but much like the rest of the world he wouldnt have known exactly how that was going to play out. he (and others) wanted to make a name for themselves. they didnt want to need a savior.

when you examine the ¨mysteries¨ of ancient babylon, or its religion, you see how nimrod (or those close to him, possible even by inspiration of the demons) took some element of truth and then twisted it. instead of awaiting a saviour, nimrod became the saviour. instead of god being 1 god, he became 3 in the form of a godhead. instead of preaching the truth freely, the religion became a ¨mystery¨ held by only the few, the priesthood (beginning of gnostic thinking)

when god stepped in and threw them into confusion, what happened? they scattered right? why wouldnt they take these beliefs with them?

its interesting to note that nearly every civilization that exists today has a folklore tale of a flood that wiped away evil. in all the examples elements change wildly, but they still have similarities. ( home.earthlink.net... ) this also shows that cultures and languages did infact spread with the scattering. its probable and very possible they brought babylonian teaching with them. of course it would change over time, but certain similarities would be evident even with the passing of time.

another interesting thing to note is that sometimes people look at this evidence the other way. they try to say jesus was inspired by these mythologies. but if nimrod knew about the need for a seed, then likely it would have been included.

what is scary is how everything came full circle. babylon was scattered and its teaching diluted and changed. but the last of the apostles die off and a great apostasy sets in and the corruptions that were introduced are extremely close to the original babylonian. if you look at the 2 babylons, hislop points out that virgin worship today is almost identical to the way is was in babylon. its almost as if satan is signing his signature so that we know it was his idea.

my point is that all ¨false¨ religion started with the rebellion in babylon. it was at that point that people decided that they wanted to believe something else. i think its fitting that false religion would be named ¨babylon the great¨. again, this is not only the RCC, but any and all religions that embrace a lie.

does this fit the bible account?

¨great whore that sitteth upon many waters¨ - ancient babylon eventually became indestructible, not only did it have double walls, but it was protected by rivers. this made assaults on the city nearly impossible. verse 15 of chapter 17 says that the waters are people. people supply an amount of protection for false religion in that they support it with money and even loyalty. an attack on false religion by any element of this world would likely end in failure due to this support. verse 16 talks about an attack by the ten horns (ill get into that later). so obviously something happens to these waters. in ancient babylon, the waters were diverted by cyrus and dried up. it is likely that a similar thing will happen to babylon the great. she will lose the protection and support of her people.

¨With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication¨ - Isreal was sometimes called a whore for building alliances with nations that god told them not to (ezekial 16:26,29). even gomer, habakkuk´s unfaithful wife, was used as an example of how god would forgive the fornication of isreal and would allow them to return to him. false religion has committed fornication with the kings of the earth by getting involved in their affairs. the RCC is most known for this, however all false religion is guilty of this.

¨I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast¨ - do people sit on wild animals? no, you sit on animals you have tamed. so while this beast is is ¨wild¨, babylon the great is confident that she has tamed it. enough is her confidence that she even rides it. if the beast is the governments of the world (ill explain why later) then false religion is too confident. not only do they commit fornication (mettle in government affairs) but they also think they have a measure of control

¨the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:¨ - false religion lives in shameless luxury. again not only the RCC

¨And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.¨ - several things about this verse. first you have the word ¨mystery¨ which is a direct reference to the babylonian ¨mystery¨ or religion. mother of the harlots, not all religions today are like babylonian beliefs, but all have ties to it, so while they may be harlots themselves, babylon is there ¨mother¨ or from where they got their basic beliefs from. abomination can also be a reference to idol worship which seems to be a corner stone in false worship.

¨I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints¨ - false religion has one purpose and one purpose only. to lead mankind away from god. from the false baal worship the isrealites did, to the church, they have killed and persecuted those who worship in truth. even the jewish leaders of his time called for the death of jesus and his apostles. from jezabel killing the true prophets of god to the church killing those who were trying to translate the bible into the common tongue. the bloodguilt of false religion is so much that she is drunk from it.

"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth;¨ - its really interesting that alot of these services and things are found in temples and churches. there is always musician and sculptures and candles and weddings. but the angel here is saying no more.

¨for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.¨ - this is a key to understanding too who this is. magic is something that is forbidden by god, why? well for one it was a false form of worship. if you are asking spirit for help with something and that spirit is not god, then who are you asking? babylon teaching relied on lies and false beliefs. the world is saturated with dissenting beliefs, all designed to pul people away from god. the blood of these people who are deceived is on the hands of babylon the great. she perpetuated and coerced the world to follow her. this is why god deals with her so badly.

lets say im wrong, lets say babylon is not false religion. there are some reasons i think its defiantly NOT america.

for one, america is a political entity. political entities are usually described as wild beasts. daniel uses very similar language to revelations in describing beasts who come out of the sea. daniel clearly explains that these beasts are political nations. IF america is mentioned in revelation, it is more likely to be the beast the whore is riding on than the whore.

second. the harlot deceived with spiritistic practices. yes american government is known for lying but not with ¨spiritistic¨ ways.

third. the harlot commits fornication with the kings of the earth. even though there is nothing to say that the whore isnt a ¨king¨ (or queen if you will) the context implies an organization outside the category of ¨kings¨. not rock solid, but its hard to make it fit another way.¨

alot of the quotes only say "babylon" who is to say it is referring to the new babylon?

thats me playing your little game.





in the end its a book, written by man, for man. god does not exist.

oh no...the worlds going to end...run to the hills...where my church is conveniently located, CHA-CHING

good thing the world wasnt supposed to end roughly 2,000 years ago eh?

One thing...Babylon is global and exists in all lands. So, yes aspects of the Mystery can be found in America, but they can be found in all lands.

Babylon exists in Islam, Judaism, China, India, Russia, the African Nations...everywhere, side by side with the Promise.

That's why David refered to this world as the Valley of the Shadow of Death. Darkness and Light were once married, until the Darkness betrayed, declared war upon and attempted to destroy the Light. Then the light fought back and the darkness fled and is hiding to this very day.

Darkness was given the opportunity to become light, but its greed led it down a different path. Darkness under-estimates, rejects even the existence of, light. But darkness was proven wrong.

Originally posted by 30 Seconds
in the end its a book, written by man, for man. god does not exist.

no, its a book inspired by god, written by man, for man. god does exist.

reply to post by miriam0566


Miriam-

As I stated in my previous post the "whore" of revalation ultimately does become religion. I believe it will contain all the pagan rituals of ancient babylon (including the female goddess) , with all other false religions blended in too. Lead by the False Prophet in revalation.
It is easy to come to the conclusion of the Babylonian "female Goddess" approach in identifing the "whore of babylon" . The bible in fact uses "she" or "her" and mountain(s) for nations many times. If you want to include the babylonian "Female Goddess" in an equation envolving the USA, reasearch the design orgins of the Statue of Liberty. She was designed by French Freemasons based on the Roman Goddess Libertas, who was designed after the babylonian goddess Ishtar (goddess of prostitutes).
To answer the points you brought up in your post. I believe your interpreting these scriptures purely in a symbolic, figuritive or religious way, not in a literal sense. The story dipicted in Rev. 18 is this a physical destruction of a city or nation. She is luxurious, wanton, materialistic and believes she will never experince calamity ( she is eternal). The fact that she is deystroyed shocks the entire world and grieves its businessmen. Ultimately in her final form she is evil and demonically controlled. This is summarized in the first verses and last verse.
To make it clearer let me play devil's advocate with points you brought up.

Are false religions really the rich and opulate?
Their leaders may live relatively well off but their riches would pale in comparison to the lifestyles of CEO's and government leaders. Their followers many times project a meager and humble existance. examples Mother teresa, monks, fasting muslims. This doesnt look very luxurious to me.

Why would the merchant seaman and businessmen of the world greive and weep because their favorite religion was deystoryed? They wouldnt. Its because their source of riches (livilihood) was deystoryed.

How would you deystroy a religious system, physically and in 1 hour? I guess you could nuke Rome, Mecca and Nepal. But most of their believers would still live and so would the religion too.

In reference to Rev 18:22,23) where in do your find artisans and millstones grinding (industry & manufacturing) in a church? You dont, the things mentioned in these verses are things that are found in a nation. You definitely thinking in a religious "box" here.

You stated that the "whore of babylon" is a different entity than the Kings of the world. I would have to agree. She is not a monarchy, she is a democracy or republic "ruled by many" (IS 47:13).

In conclusion, hope this helped clarify some things for you.

I think the description fits very well. It is unfortunate that some people seem to want to pick hairs in order to hide from the truth. Face it please, the USA is the most corrupt nation on earth.

kx

Mystery Babylon is JERUSALEM, and Jerusalem is known as spiritual Sodom and Egypt and spiritual Sodom and Egypt is now EVERYWHERE

She sits on a 7 headed beast. The beast is the system of the antichrist, typically pyramid hierarchy and the 7 heads were the 7 wonders of the ancient world but the beast survived the wound to the head and today they are now also EVERYWHERE

I'm surprised no one said this yet.

I seemed to have made a mistake here. Instead of 'mollusk' it should be 'murex.'Wikipedia to the rescue. en.wikipedia.org...







[edit on 20-1-2009 by Firestorm]

reply to post by miriam0566


I have to admit; miriam's cute.

second line

Babylon means "confusion"

Babylon is a religious system

The United States is not Babylon, but Babylon resides within the United States, and to some degree controls it. The control of Babylon over the United States will grow to completion.

Babylon is the catholic church, the papal system, also known as the harlot of Revelation, having daughters that also follow after the catholic system. These daughters also keep Sunday as the false day of worship observance, rather than Saturday, which is the true Sabbath, as written by the very finger of God Himself in the Ten Commandments.

The United States IS directly referred to in Scripture however.
Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

The two horns are civil and religious liberty, the speaking as a dragon is the military might of the USA.

This is the beast that will force the "mark of the beast" as we read in the context of this chapter.

The mark of the beast will be forced Sunday Law, the very sign of the papacy, the confusion of Gods Holy Law, i.e. Babylon

reply to
post by Ethiopia21

12. Babylon is the leading INDUSTRIAL NATION OF THE WORLD
13. Babylon has a huge aviation program (Isa 14:13-14;
11. Babylon is the leading INDUSTRIAL NATION OF THE WORLD (Isa 13, 47, Jer 50, 51; Rev 18).
16. Babylon's skies are filled with the whisper of aircraft wings (Isa 18:1; Jer 51:53).
17. Babylon has a huge space industry, has "mounted up to the heavens" (Jer 51:53).
18. Babylon fortifies her skies with a huge military aviation program (Jer 51:53).
19. Babylon is portrayed as a leading in high tech weapons and abilities (Jer 51:53; Hab 1:6-10; implied throughout).
34. Babylon is a huge producer and exporter of automobiles (Jer 50:37; Rev 18:13).
48. Plays a leadership role in Outer Space Exploration (Jer. 51:3)

Funny how I missed all of these things when I read the Bible a long time ago. Maybe it's an up-to-date version?

So...is Babylon a city or a nation?


EDIT for sarcasm.



[edit on 4/5/2009 by haika]

I know a lot of those fit America perfectly, but what if the NWO is Babylon?