The greatest illusion ever pulled off - Prayer

this is a follow on to my post 'The Greatest lie ever told- the bible'

This one is short and sweet and all it requires is for you to watch this short 8 minute video currently recieving high marks on google video..

Google Video Link

now as i stated in my original post i DO believe in the possibilty of an intelligent designer .. i just do not believe any religion on earth is even close in its assumptions. and most of these religion are an attempt to control the masses in one form or another ...

but just remember , 'YES' , 'NO' and 'WAIT'

and discuss the worlds best optical illusion.

good short film... the guy that makes them has a few more that are pretty good.. makes you wonder how people can still buy that stuff. you have to be a tad bit crazy to think this is true... but thats my opinion.

Originally posted by KINGOFPAIN
good short film... the guy that makes them has a few more that are pretty good.. makes you wonder how people can still buy that stuff. you have to be a tad bit crazy to think this is true... but thats my opinion.

sorry man can't talk now i am waiting on my jug of milk to bring me beautiful female aliens demanding me to 'show me more of this earth thing you call kissing'

i think i am in the wait phase

Yes, this guy's logic makes very good sense. I have seen that video before, and also all of his other ones, which are on his website.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Yes, this guy's logic makes very good sense. I have seen that video before, and also all of his other ones, which are on his website.

nice ty lots of videos on his sites for people to get there teeth into ..oh and ty for the comment lol that sign generator is old

but i would appreciate it if all noodley appendages were kept at a safe distance from me.

[edit on 27/9/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

I think this is so true. I also believe that people do attract things to them when they ask for it. I read that in the secret. I think it is true.... you just have to be positive and believe in what you want.

Nice video!
It is the perfect illusion... stuff might happen stuff might not, I doubt its 'fate' or whatever.

Used to believe in that religion stuff.... I came to my senses and I don't believe anymore lol

But,... if there is 'fate' then, I found a quarter on the ground yesterday... and bought a cigarette with it, thanks god.

As we say here in the south - "You need Jesus!" If you are not careful QS some ATS member or their granny is going to put you on a church prayer list! You are hanker'n for a spanker'n!

Originally posted by kosmicjack
As we say here in the south - "You need Jesus!" If you are not careful QS some ATS member or their granny is going to put you on a church prayer list!

You are hanker'n for a spanker'n!

hello you .. er yeah i checked my profile to see if you had removed me before responding to this lol .. i promise this is the last religous thread i am gonna start for a while onto a new board soon to tackle the worlds problems in the stupidist way i know how..

But please religous people don't take offence as i state frequently even from a science point of view the Universe looks intelligently designed this should bring you hope that at least your heading in the correct direction .. i just think you are all taking the long way around.

[edit on 27/9/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

The only thing I can't fathom is why people that have no belief in God have any sense of morals or compliance with the societal standards.
To wit; If you believe that there is no God, no hereafter and no eternal repercussion for anything you do - then why not do anything you feel?
Please don't give me any crap like :"Well, I'm a Humanist" or "I believe in the evolution of Man as an eternally improving entity". Rubbish.
Logically, if you don't believe in God, there's no real restraint or barrier to indulging yourself in every whim or desire you have. The only restraints upon you are those of mortal, secular society. But if you can't or won't go beyond those, then you are either just lazy or a non-thinking conformist.
Also, don't give any crummy excuses that you don't have any anti-social inpulses - we all have wanted to smash someone or something at one time or another.
So Ok then, there is NO God. So why behave at all? (Assuming you can get away with whatever).
The most absurd mortal of all is an Athiest with a conscience because they have no justification for one, yet despise others for the same thought process.

Passenger, morality doesn't come from god. It comes from our biology because we are social primates. Reciprocal altruism. In order to live in a society of any kind we have to have rules to get along.

We had these rules LONG before god was even a spark in some desert hermit's eye.

What does it say about people who have to have someone watching them all the time in order to be good?

I can be good all by myself. I don't need some sky fairy supervising me all the time. How sad for people who think they can't behave themselves without being observed.

I believe that prayer is a good thing. I also agree with the above video. No im not high. Prayer can give you hope, hope can help you to deal with things that are hard to cope with. I personally pray, not to a specific god. But I pray to the whole universe. I never expect an answer. Its a way for me to vent off my negative feelings into the greater scheme of things. I also meditate, Im a buddhist, I feel that the power of these things is not in an external "god" being that helps us. I believe that the power of these things is within our own selves. We are the ones that help ourselves, We are the ones who make our own choices.

Whatever helps, Whatever makes life easier, for those who are asleep, and for those who understand. Use it, Cherish it, and Pray that things dont get worse

Peace.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Passenger, morality doesn't come from god...
I can be good all by myself. I don't need some sky fairy supervising me all the time. How sad for people who think they can't behave themselves without being observed.

But why?
You're arguments are rationally presented, I'll grant that.
But why behave? Really. Wouldn't you have more to gain by being totally Machiavellian? If there is no God then how can there be any definition of Good?
To me, from an Atheistic standpoint, the position of a sociopath is much more grounded in "reality". That is, if you only have a finite life-span and the goal is to achieve as much personal gain as possible, why not get away with anything you can?
For what does it benefit a man to gain his soul but lose the world?

The flaw is his idea of praying is for physical advantages.
prayer is simply a gift given to thos who wish to speak with god and achieve a certain level of inner peace.

I am somewhat surprised people expect god to do things for them, god can help you feel less scared or braver on the battlefield or feel compashen but in the end you yourself are making the emoshens happen you just feel safer when you speak to god.

To those who oppose this i would expect they had not been in a life or death situation or have not ever felt demons on there backs.
At one point or another i think everyone who has been thought life changing events have called for god to help them and when they did they felt that little bit safer or that tiny bit braver, Just enough comfort to get you thought the crisis.

Originally posted by passenger

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Passenger, morality doesn't come from god...
I can be good all by myself. I don't need some sky fairy supervising me all the time. How sad for people who think they can't behave themselves without being observed.

But why?
You're arguments are rationally presented, I'll grant that.
But why behave? Really. Wouldn't you have more to gain by being totally Machiavellian? If there is no God then how can there be any definition of Good?
To me, from an Atheistic standpoint, the position of a sociopath is much more grounded in "reality". That is, if you only have a finite life-span and the goal is to achieve as much personal gain as possible, why not get away with anything you can?
For what does it benefit a man to gain his soul but lose the world?

That does make sense, if what you want to gain can be gained through evil. But what's needed to be gained in this life, and what's wanted to be gained in this life are two completely different things. And what's wanted to be gained changes from person to person, and each person can change what they want to gain. So evil does not even need to be done, even if what's wanted requires a person to do evil. What's wanted that can be gotten through evil can no longer be wanted, so that evil does not need to be done.

Originally posted by passenger
But why?
You're arguments are rationally presented, I'll grant that.
But why behave? Really. Wouldn't you have more to gain by being totally Machiavellian? If there is no God then how can there be any definition of Good?

I think psychological processes such as empathy, sympathy, and adaptive social behaviour underpinned by emotional intelligence enables an idea of what is good.

It certainly doesn't come from the fear of retribution from a psychopathic god-dude. In fact, just following a list of divine rules isn't really morality, just obedience. If, for example, one of your books suggests to stone people for adultery, blasphemy, disobeying parents, being raped and failing to scream loud enough etc etc, I would suggest it was neither moral/ethical or good, whenever it was justified.

To me, from an Atheistic standpoint, the position of a sociopath is much more grounded in "reality". That is, if you only have a finite life-span and the goal is to achieve as much personal gain as possible, why not get away with anything you can?
For what does it benefit a man to gain his soul but lose the world?

Maybe the problem here is that you feel that without absolute rules for you to follow, you would be a sociopath.

This sort of idea shows a pretty poor view of human nature, which is only consolidated by the idea that an individuals goal is to 'achieve as much personal gain as possible', which I assume you mean by such things as wealth.

Essentially we aim for happiness, for positive emotional states. For some people that may be to have a bank full of dosh, for others it might be to have a family and enough to survive, for others it might be something else.

Sociopaths and psychopaths have issues with their frontal lobes. The frontal lobe are the area of the brain that is particularly developed in humans. It is also the area of the brain that appears to underlie adaptive social behaviour. Damage to this area of the brain results in an inability to read other people's minds, to use emotions adaptively in social behaviour, to understand the feelings of other people, for moral behaviour - In sum, it produces 'acquired sociopathy', with these people exhibiting socially inappropriate behaviour.

Thus, morality requires a good functional frontal lobe and social grouping. In other species, once an individual becomes disruptive to the social group, they are ejected/beaten/scolded. We are a social species, we evolved in such a situation, most of us are well-equipped to function adaptively.

Thus, it is an individuals own benefit to act within the social group. For instance, did you know that in primates/apes, that social group size is correlated with brain size? The more complex a social group becomes, the larger a species' brain.

And if this is not sufficient for you, much of the western world has lost a large part of its religiosity, for example, estimates of up to 85% atheism in sweden, and high levels across europe. But the one anomaly, the US, does no better on measures of social health issues such as crime and other social ills. Indeed, sweden has some of the lowest levels of crime across the developed world.

[edit on 28-9-2007 by melatonin]

That video was pretty dumb. I am an aetheist at 33, but when I went to church as a kid I don't remember being told: "If you want something pray to God and he will make it so"

Even so, I prayed like a bastard for a scalectrix but never got one. That's why I'm an aetheist now.



Edit: Just watched it again to make sure I didn't get it wrong : first line (paraphrasing) "I'm going to assume you aren't an idiot, and tell you were you've gone wrong"

[edit on 28-9-2007 by myowncrusade]

Edit 2: Third time lucky. I watched it again, just to be absolutely sure.

Stupidest anti-religous argument ever. If I was religous I'd pray that he got a personality and gave me back those 21 minutes of my life. But I'm not. He won't and neither will I.

Don't attack religion just because you don't understand it, especially in a monotone BS argument.



[edit on 28-9-2007 by myowncrusade]

monotone bS argument .. .i suggest you watch it a 4th time and are actually open to other peoples opinions instead of rubbishing everything you see.. you are the pinnacle of ignorance.

i assume by your post ... that you assume that all christians are idiots.. this is not true they are purely misguided.

[edit on 28/9/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

Well, I'd have to disagree old chap.

His voice was very boring, and his argument rubbish. Of course just my opinion.

I suggest you read my post just once and make an attempt to understand what I was saying. Religion has a value and to compare it to praying to a jug of milk is the epitome of ignorance.

[edit on 28-9-2007 by myowncrusade]

[edit on 28-9-2007 by myowncrusade]

Originally posted by syress
The flaw is his idea of praying is for physical advantages.

Jesus said whatever is asked in his name, he will answer. He didn't split any hairs between selfish prayers and selfless prayers, or physical or emotional advantages.

This is in John 14:12-14, with variations in other parts of the bible.

It's the theologians that later on tried to say it wouldn't work for selfish reasons.

So let me get this straight: the son of god says that you can ask for anything in his name and it will be given, but it is not. So, is he a liar, a fraud, or is prayer simple wish fulfillment?

[edit on 28-9-2007 by MajorMalfunction]