Confessions of an ex-conspiracy-theorist

if nothing happens by 2012 it's all bs...

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by scientist

but I still see your whole perspective being a bit myopic. You are describing a small microcosm, and even at that - just your own view.

ever heard of visiting other lodges as a guest?

still... the point stands.

Well nothing happened in 98 when the Book came out- 98 reasons the rapture could come in 98. People took that seriously enough to where some were actually selling their houses for what reason I don't know, they might as well have been taken from or left behind in their own houses. I doubt anything will happen but a new end time date after 2012

reply to post by Skyfloating


OK, I want to preface this by reiterating that I believe that Masonry is an inherently good organization. That being said, I think your original post loses a lot of force when one considers the high probability that you are a low-level Mason (and don't give me any of this disingenuous b.s. about Third Degree being the end-all and be-all of Masonry). Don't come across as having it all "figured out" when you have so much farther to go.

I'll start by saying I do not believe in the huge Illuminati Conspiracy Theory.

It is the secrecy and exclusivity of the Masons that generates the mistrust of Mason's and even the actual bad players in Masonry. Whenever secrecy is involved, even if it is innocent at first, bad things will eventually come from it. The answer lies in what purpose their is for secrecy in the first place. I see a couple of reasons.

The obvious is to keep out Undesirables which is in and of itself a form of Discrimination and Bigotry. When people appoint themselves the judge of another's character that power will always be abused or used for no good. It is inevitable. Allegiances will form to take unfair advantage in Business or Politics as happens in all exclusive clubs.

The other is too hide something. To hide either something bad or too hide something that is not to be shared like information.

This also leads to those on the inside covering up for each others bad doings. If a member sees another member back into a car in a parking lot for instance they would be far less likely to report the hit and run than if they saw a stranger. It is the little things like this example that lead to the bad things.

Masonry has evolved it would seem, into a tool. A tool of unfair advantage in Business, Politics and Socially. When a tool like this is available it will be used and most certainly abused.

Most Masons are decent enough people I am sure. I am also sure that this tool is and has been abused.

In the home town of my Youth the local Mason's are the who's who of bad players in the area. Political scandal it's a Mason. Cheated Customer, a Mason owns the store. Having grown up in a town where the Masons just happen to be a notorious bunch I should be more prone to believing the wild Theories, but I'm not. I have enough amassed wisdom to know that Mason's are probably as different from area to area as is everyone else.

I've enjoyed reading this thread. As long as Mason's choose to remain secretive and exclusive don't expect the Conspiracy Theories to go away. In fact I'd lay odds most of you actually enjoy it if the truth were told.

[edit on 9/27/2007 by Blaine91555]

[edit on 9/27/2007 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by Blaine91555


What if the Masons were hiding a truth that humanity truly could not handle?

Originally posted by uberarcanist
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

What if the Masons were hiding a truth that humanity truly could not handle?

That is indeed an interesting thought. Something to base that upon?

reply to post by Blaine91555


OK-I'm probably totally going to get pounced upon this, but bear in mind that what I'm about to post is speculation and nothing.

Some Masons have said that Masonry originated in the time of Noah. See the article "Dispersion of Mankind" in the link I provide below. Now, in the Bible, Noah was one of the few survivors of a cataclysm that is said to have occurred because of man's hubris. Part of this hubris was said to have been interbreeding with godlike entities. Is it not inconceivable that these godlike beings could have, in fact, been aliens? Furthermore, I think it is at least conceivable that humanity could have had a close and open relationship with extraterrestrials in the distant past which ended in disaster. I believe that it is possible, following the disastrous event, that the aliens formed a new understanding with a select few humans. Perhaps a secret covenant was made in which they would guide these humans on a more enlightened path as long as the humans threw up a smokescreen about the pre-catastrophe days and permitted the rest of mankind to only slowly figure out the truth about extraterrestrials.

books.google.com... AnBbEnv06P-ENo

See page 254

[edit on 27-9-2007 by uberarcanist]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
maybe. interesting thought.

I personally think Jesuits are the big ones. In my opinion, they're the real group everyone should look at. I think they're the ones that bring a bad image to freemasonry.

That's just my opinion though and I don't have much to back it up.

But having said that, I don't know much about freemasonry to be honest with you. I just think, from what I've seen, it is a misunderstood society. It's kind of like a religion in the sense that, all religions have their bad people that do things in the name of that religion, but it shouldn't necessarily reflect on the religion as a whole.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
true. but in my time I must have seen dozens of conspiracy books who portray the "illuminati pyramid" (as posted on ATS again and again and again) that feature freemasonry as a major part of "the world conspiracy".

Yep, I've seen it everywhere too. I mean, I believe I recall George Washington being a mason. I haven't seen one shred of evidence pointing towards George Washington being an evil man controlled by the "establishment".

I just think freemasonry is way too misunderstood and people have been led to believe that it is some evil cult. Like a lot of groups - unfortunately - it has it's bad people who have ruined it's image. And I stick by my speculative theory that freemasons are the scapegoat for the truly bad ones - which in my opinion are the Jesuits.

But I think people really need to look into this stuff more. I mean, with some people, every time they see that popular masonic symbol with the G (forgive my ignorance of not knowing the name of the symbol), they automatically think evil if they've been exposed to all the conspiracy theories. That's misguided and I hope people do a little more research.

reply to post by uberarcanist


That is a new one on me for sure. I've never looked too deeply into this stuff. I have been curious about the seemingly large numbers of Conspiracy Theories about Masons and the interest. I'll have to read more.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

What if the Masons were hiding a truth that humanity truly could not handle?

Then they assume they are special or elite.

I agree with poster that said it is the secrecy not the society. If everyone knew who every mason was then when one gets that special contract or no traffic ticket, the rest can ask "Why a two tear system? Why does that top tear get to decide who gets in? do we believe in Justice for all?"

If masons believe as the quote above says, then they are obligated to lie about there going ons and defend Masonry. If a new member gets a power feeling from being part of the self claimed elite, that feeling is only magnified by the secret. Especially if that secret is rewarding his uberness, since he is the enlightended. Do you see my point.

Its the secret, people who hold secrets do it because the releasing it would hurt them. Therefore it is something others would not approve of. Others can't handle it? That also assumes it is correct, what if others would prove you wrong? and then you lose the hold over members that you offer power and elitism, by using the lie of a claimed special truth.

A secret stops transparency, and the ability for all to judge if something is just. To let a special person make the judgement of what should be spoken, then allow that person to keep the reasons 'why' something is secret, is just trusting a person who has not earned it. How can we trust people that keep secrets for there own gain above, or possibly against, the good of society at large.

Imagine if overnight all secrets were gone, how many wealthy that made their money in shady deals would keep their power? How many systems set up to help the few would last? Suddenly we would all have the information to make decisions, not just those who live in the shadows, and are coincidentally the ones with power and wealth.

Light and truth my friends, light and truth, something secret societies by definitions are against.


[edit on 27-9-2007 by Redge777]

reply to post by Blaine91555


It's probably new to you because, as far as I know, I alone have reached this conclusion!

I would also like to know why seemingly highly intelligent CTs such as Jim Marrs still insist that there is a masonic conspiracy. A corporate boardroom or a bilderberg meeting is confidential enough without the need for Masonry as a cover. The secrecy provided by masonry in the past just isn't needed today.

Maybe I should ask Mr. Marrs in his forum why he believes in this conspiracy. He mentions it in Rule by Secrecy but I've never heard him expand on it, he has never explained how this secrecy mecanism would actually work.

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


The more layers of secrecy, the better. A corporate boardroom wherein everyone is a Mason would probably be even more secretive than just a mere corporate boardroom.

the freemasons are not that important in the NWO conspiracy, as its not necessarily a secret organization staging the coup on society, but the corporate elite. the founding fathers were masons and they didnt want the society they built to be taken over by banks and other big corporations. its certain people that got to where they are by being cutthroat business men, and having control over many aspects of our culture and daily life, like the media. most of the people involved in it (senators, congressman, media heads, etc.) think they are actually doing the people some good. but they like the lobbyists. their salary wont pay for their million dollar plus homes, so its good to have the corporate lobby. for them. then there are some who really think they are doing good although they are really helping to dumb-down society as a whole. look at high school teachers; they just want to teach kids for the most part, and they have to teach the curriculum. yet, the curriculum is put in place by certain aspects of the government, and from my experience they dont ever say an unkind word about the federal reserve, when in my post high school education i have found that it is accepted that democracy and federal reserve can not work for longer than a small amount of time. so dont just think its a simple "secret organisation" or skull and bones society since the middle ages thinking this stuff up; it is people who jumped on the opportunity when it arose and built an empire, without a care for the common people. now they have the government and constitution turned upside down so the people no longer control it, as the founding fathers (masons) intended, but a small fraction of the population, who control a major percentage of the wealth (probably at least 80%) make the rules and laws that suit them. so maybe re-evaluate your position, but dont forget the conspiracy is there. if the founding fathers were here now, they would be majorly pissed off at the entire government for letting this happen, and be doing something about it.

reply to post by jmilla


Wow. That's the most intelligent post I've read in awhile. I agree, I think the sad shape America's in now is not the result of some kind of perverse conspiracy, but rather the result of a comedy of errors perpetrated by well-meaning but ultimately self-serving elites who took out more than they put in.

[edit on 28-9-2007 by uberarcanist]

intresting post jmilla.

i like the back and forth discussion, as well as the lack of flaming going on.

i reserve the right to believe that the higher level members are still very influential as well as members of multiple society's

if anyone is in charge of a conspiracy i say it is the old money families going back hundreds of years w the corporate pigs as their puppets aided by 3 letter organizations and the politicians of their choosing as well as federal reserve banking puppets (last but certainly not least) these old money families probably have ties w/ the heiracrchy's of vatican/jesuit military groups and i wouldn't doubt there is significant overlap with high level masons' as well as "zionists", communists, neo cons. i beleive alot of people belong to a few soceity's.

there may also be a advanced being/ET manipulation IMO perhaps thru the "blue bloods/vatican"black pope" communication (although this beleif is much weaker than the former paragraph)

i believe the old money family's along with there big corporate reps and bankers as well as cfr's stooges are desperatly trying to consolidate power on a global scale and willing to fleece the public economically to bring about this centralization in power thru the order resulting in the chaos that a global financial collapse caused by an implosion of leveraged debt masquarading as wealth causes (perhaps in conjunction with a military and social chaos)

[edit on 28-9-2007 by cpdaman]

reply to post by jmilla


Let's not forget that G. Washingon was the richest American in his time, so it's difficult for me to believe that he was really benevolent.

However, he did give his support to the Bavarian Illuminati, so it is possible that he had also read Rousseau's works and also believed in freedom and equality for everyone. (as expressd in the Constitution/Bill of Rights)

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I would also like to know why seemingly highly intelligent CTs such as Jim Marrs still insist that there is a masonic conspiracy. A corporate boardroom or a bilderberg meeting is confidential enough without the need for Masonry as a cover. The secrecy provided by masonry in the past just isn't needed today.

Just a guess but the Bilderberg group still need foot soldiers to actually go out and do the work.

reply to post by uberarcanist


So, according to you, at what rank does "high level freemasonry" begin?