Iraq: Blackwater staff will face criminal charges

Iraq: Blackwater staff will face criminal charges

www.cnn.com

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The Iraqi government will file criminal charges against employees of U.S. security firm Blackwater who are blamed for shooting dead at least eight civilians in Baghdad, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official said Sunday.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Looks bad for our mercenary army over there. There trying to say that Iraq doesn't have authority over them. Wow so thats freedom and democracy. If they commit a crime, its ok because the US government hired them???

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

As they should face charges...

Nothing of what I've read about this matter both on here and in the mainstream media has convinced me otherwise...

Hired thugs, where the US military is unwilling thru lack of intestinal fortitude or lack of training (or both) to do the job required...

Why is it other nations use their own military to do jobs like this, where the US does not ? A perfect example bought up in another thread was those who protect the British royal family...Each and every one of them military...

Maybe the US needs to change the way it does things

Peace

Originally posted by LDragonFire


... There trying to say that Iraq doesn't have authority over them.
Wow so thats freedom and democracy.
If they commit a crime, its ok because the US government hired them???

sure enough,

but we're only seeing the proverbial 'tip-of-the-iceburg'

read over all the 'rules' that the American occupiers made for the Iraqi
people to abide by, theres a whole web site dedicated to this info.

here: www.cpa-iraq.org...


in this instance, click the "Coalition Provisional Authority", CPA order #17...
this rule absolves both 'contractors' and the Military on duty there in Iraq,
of crimes that might be commited before or after Iraq passes laws...

it ?might? also include not being able to prosecute any coalition's occupation forces for any 'crimes against humanity'..which includes the Security subcontractors (i.e. mercenaries)

have a nice day,

reply to post by Rilence


I'm wondering when the video is gonna come out. It does seem like these guys where out Human hunting, just killing for no reason. If this is true they should face charges, what a shame it is.

reply to post by St Udio


Wow so much for Freedom and Democracy, I looked at CPA#19 about the right to assembly, but only if the coalition authority says its ok. What is there Government for??

We are still running Iraq when they have a government? We have the right to trump what they say.

Guess thats why they call it a occupation huh.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Sounds like it LDragon..Thanks for the op, BTW

There's been a couple of threads on here recently that have quoted various sources which indicate some of these guys like to shoot to kill for fun from time to time...

Sure its not many of em, far from a majority...But that isn't the point...If these guys were military, they'd find themselves in front of a military court like many of the servicepeople who have made poor decisions in Iraq with shooting/killing civilians and so on...

Udio...You make a good point...They have a massive list of rules that the people who's country has been occupied has to follow ?? Shouldn't there be a ton of rules that an opposing force should follow with regard to civilians ?

As for hired thugs, they should have twice the rules imposed on them...Frankly, they shouldn't be there....

Peace

Hired thugs, where the US military is unwilling thru lack of intestinal fortitude or lack of training (or both) to do the job required...

Wow so maybe we need more men like you...oh yea thats right your sitting on your duff eating doughnuts...

Do you even understand why the Government hires a company like Blackwater?

Do you know where the people of Blackwater come from?

I'll answer both of those questions for you.

The majority of those "thugs" are ex-military and the majority of those are ex-special forces soldiers. Now these are the very men that lack the intestinal fortitude to do anything. These are the very men that lack the training that a person like yourself is full of...Train us then and show us what intestinal fortitude is!!!!!

Now to answer your question as to why your government hires a company like that: War is a very ugly thing and the mechanics of such a thing isvery messy. Now the general public doesn't have the slightest idea about the conditions these men are subjected to. As long as there is gas to put in your SUV and you can get your Starbucks in the morning...you dont want to know. Now if you hada job to do and to do it you had to take what is black and white witha very fine and definate line between the two and turn it into a big gray mass THAT you can deny all responsibility for...lets contract it out. Let's lay the blame on someone else but atleast your administration can wash their hands of it.

The CIA and other factions of the gov have done the same thing for years and havent been acused much less prosecuted.

You are a fool!!! I suggest you put on a uniform and go serve your country...These men are there to do a job that the gov wont let its soldiers do...so blame your gov not the men.

But it is your right to be able to whine about it along with everyone else. It is easy to sit behind your pc and take the higher road and look down on these people...Sounds a lot like some of the issues 40 yrs ago in Viet Nam.

Bunch of bleeding heart cry babies...hell we can buy you a ticket and send you there and you can go give everyone a hug and maybe that will end the war.

Grow up man...Blackwater is doing exactly what they were hired to do. And our gov can say that they had nothing to do with it.

who is guilty of murder? The hitman or the person that hires him?

Should they be there...no but they wouldnt have to be if your gov would let their military do their job without the media and everyone else crying about how it is accomplished

I am confused about this. I thought the CPA was disbanded when the Iraqis elected a governement. Why do they still have 'rules' when the Iraqi government have their own laws?

OK, I could easily believe that all of these rules would be lined up in the new Iraqi laws but they are not even pretending that these guys are 'liberated' any more.

this rule absolves both 'contractors' and the Military on duty there in Iraq,
of crimes that might be commited before or after Iraq passes laws...

it ?might? also include not being able to prosecute any coalition's occupation forces for any 'crimes against humanity'..which includes the Security subcontractors (i.e. mercenaries)

have a nice day,

Kind of sounds like all the diplomats running around Washington DC. Our laws and "rules" seem to never apply to them. God forbid one of them hits you while on the road....or runs you over.....they get off because they are diplomats.

But regarding the story at hand. Too bad some bad apples spoil it for everyone. I have know a couple of people working for Blackwater. They are very good honorable people.

[edit on 3-10-2007 by greeneyedleo]

I've read about Blackwater and these other private armies in Iraq. I think the main issue is what set of laws are they governed by? I don't think it's clear, at least not to me, but maybe that will be sorted out soon.

I think it's important not to tar all private security personell with the same brush.

Theres good and bad in all organisations, that goes for private and military.

As has already been said by Kaferwerks above, most of these guys are ex-military so theres little arguement where they got thier training.

CX.

Originally posted by kaferwerks
Wow so maybe we need more men like you...oh yea thats right your sitting on your duff eating doughnuts...

Personal attacks are not appreciated around here. Further, making them cast you in a bad light and weakens any valid points you might have to contribute.

Please refrain from this childish behavior.

The majority of those "thugs" are ex-military and the majority of those are ex-special forces soldiers. Now these are the very men that lack the intestinal fortitude to do anything. These are the very men that lack the training that a person like yourself is full of...Train us then and show us what intestinal fortitude is!!!!!

I question the morality of anyone who would lay their loyalties in the almighty dollar while taking on a job that involves killing people.

Having morals and standing firm on them is the nature of "intestinal fortitude" to me.

By the way, I turned down a lucrative contract in a field that interests me because it was backed by military investors. I'd rather than my morality intact than a fat bank account.

Now to answer your question as to why your government hires a company like that: War is a very ugly thing and the mechanics of such a thing isvery messy. Now the general public doesn't have the slightest idea about the conditions these men are subjected to. As long as there is gas to put in your SUV and you can get your Starbucks in the morning...you dont want to know. Now if you hada job to do and to do it you had to take what is black and white witha very fine and definate line between the two and turn it into a big gray mass THAT you can deny all responsibility for...lets contract it out. Let's lay the blame on someone else but atleast your administration can wash their hands of it.

This has never been an issue for Western Nations before.
The real reason for Blackwater involvement is that it's making some people rich. It's a new scam that the Government is using to rob the people of their money and put it in the hands of Private Interests.

It's not needed, it's not wanted, it shouldn't be there.

As to the point about it allowing the Government to preform actions that they do not wish to be accountable for... this is the single most disgusting element of the whole issue. In a democracy, if the masses don't want something to happen, it shouldn't happen. Right? Isn't the point Democracy and freedom? Shouldn't that start at home with Accountability?

The CIA and other factions of the gov have done the same thing for years and havent been acused much less prosecuted.

Come again?
Haven't been accused? Are you kidding me?
You need to do some reading.

Here's a start: Google Search: CIA Accused

You are a fool!!!

Again with the personal attack.
It really is a poor way to make a point.

I suggest you put on a uniform and go serve your country...These men are there to do a job that the gov wont let its soldiers do...so blame your gov not the men.

You seem to have a distorted view of what Blackwater actually is responsible for. They are there to provide security. They are glorified night watchmen with big guns. Most of what they do is protect convoys and delegates traveling outside the greenzone as well as doing back up security for some compounds. They aren't being sent on special opps or anything like you seem to imagine.

But it is your right to be able to whine about it along with everyone else. It is easy to sit behind your pc and take the higher road and look down on these people...Sounds a lot like some of the issues 40 yrs ago in Viet Nam.

With comments like this, I have to wonder what makes you feel certified to make them? Have you served? Have you risked anything to protect the ones you love? Have you ever suffered for any reason in your whole life? I somehow doubt it. Suffering brings education and wisdom.

Bunch of bleeding heart cry babies...hell we can buy you a ticket and send you there and you can go give everyone a hug and maybe that will end the war.

Grow up man...Blackwater is doing exactly what they were hired to do. And our gov can say that they had nothing to do with it.

Wow.
You really seem to believe that insulting people somehow validates your position. I regret to inform you (again) that it doesn't.

who is guilty of murder? The hitman or the person that hires him?

The hitman is guilty of Murder.
The person who hired him is guilty of conspiracy.

Should they be there...no but they wouldnt have to be if your gov would let their military do their job without the media and everyone else crying about how it is accomplished

Again, you don't seem to understand what Blackwater does. They are not a special opps outfit. They're job is actually fairly boring... and they don't do it very well.

As for the media, they are doing everything they can to make it seem like anything the US does is "for the good of the freeworld", yet anyone with any intellectual capacity at all can see that these things are being done for the good of Private Interest. This is a war being waged on the world on behalf of a handful of rich, vile men... who In my opinion should be ferreted out and fed into woodchippers. Feet First. Slowly.


[edit on 3-10-2007 by BitRaiser]

I do have a question then in regards to these retired special ops folks working for the likes of Blackwater and AEGEIS.. are they getting bored doing the "babysitting" and resorting to this madness?

Originally posted by Gtex23
I do have a question then in regards to these retired special ops folks working for the likes of Blackwater and AEGEIS.. are they getting bored doing the "babysitting" and resorting to this madness?

I have to wonder what percentage of blackwater is made up of x military, and reasons for them not being in the military anymore.

Does blackwater do criminal background checks, and mental checks, or do they hire anyone and give them 4 weeks training a big automatic gun and send them to Iraq.

I also want to know why our tax money is spent on Mercenaries?

With this kind of track record, would you call this bunch terrorists?

[sarcasm] I guess Iraq would be easier to handle if we just killed all the pesky humans in it. [sarcasm ends]

looks like some people have been warning about blackwater for a while..


youtube.com...

youtube.com...

I agree with BitRaiser.

Although, I must add....Special Forces often leave the service to serve as mercenaries only to re-join later.

It’s all part of the same thing.....to divide the country and conquer…..or should I say divide the world and conquer.

Look around you, everyone seems more divided than ever and all the time they are uniting.

Sorry, I sometimes get paranoid searching for answers to my questions….and I do question most things these days.

I`ve found stories of Al-Qaida being a mercenary group too, funded by the C.I.A. and protected by MI6.....read about it.....it’s all credible.

See:-
video.google.co.uk...

And:-
www.youtube.com...

Here`s something that’s also quite relevant I think:-
video.google.co.uk...

ORDER FROM CAOS.

Just heard a report on PBS TV on this incident.

Iraq guards/police were pushing the car so they were shot.

The report might be digitized somewhere but I have no link.


Blackwater has the right of way so what are you gonna do.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne


Blackwater has the right of way so what are you gonna do.

thats the crappy part. most blackwater vehicles are unmarked. so normal iraqis driving to work get to close and get shot. how were they supposed to know? if they see a huge US humvee they know to stay away but not a regular suv.


heres some good news though..

WASHINGTON - The House passed a bill Thursday that would make all private contractors working in Iraq and other combat zones subject to prosecution by U.S. courts. It was the first major legislation of its kind to pass since a deadly shootout last month involving Blackwater employees.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

reply to post by turbokid


I'm not sure that your good news is all that good.
I'd much rather see private contractors being held accountable to local authorities. They are civilians guilty of crimes in foreign nations... does it not make more sense to try them under local law like any other civilian?

This would make the prospect of breaking the law in Iraq much more scary to groups like Blackwater. What's the punishment for murder there?

Aside from that, making them accountable to US law ensures that any issue can be carefully swept under the rug through internal investigation.