Whats better the AR-15 or the M16

Originally posted by xmotex
The M-16 jamming issue is vastly overstated, it got a bad rep in Vietnam because it was often carried by poorly motivated conscripts who often didn't properly maintain their rifles.

It's not quite as idiot-proof as an AK-47, that's for sure, but it's not as fussy as some reports would suggest.

You'll find it a bit hard to constantly maintain your rifle in top shape if it's raining nonstop - vietnam. The M-16 could not take the water and the mud to that extent, it's not just that the soldiers forgot to clean them. Either way, imagine getting cut off behind enemy lines with it - maintanance is gonna be a bit hard when you're surrounded for days. I could list many situations like this one, in which "simply maintaining" the M-16 would not sound as simple as it does. Sure in Iraq the US troops just return to base and clean their guns. In a frontline longterm war I imagine this might be harder.

M-16s and AKs = great weapons

Regards,
Maestro

[EDIT] Here's another one - say you're in the middle of intense fighting in some country, you get knocked off your feet by an explosion and your rifle lands in a puddle or gets covered in dirt. This is not as much a matter of cleaning.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by maestro46]

As has already been stated, the M16 of the Vietnam era was the M16-A1 model. Initially, units did not even have cleaning kits for the weapon. It was during this time that their reputation as jamming alot came into being. Now nearly every M16 model ships with a cleaning case in the buttstock and it takes at the -MOST- 60 seconds to open the upper receiver, remove the bolt and wipe it down and reassemble. That would be your tactical field cleaning. After that, weapons cleaning is your first priority of work after placement of automatic weapons. These are basic tactics and tasks for anyone in the military.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by GruntOOrah]

reply to post by GruntOOrah


Like I said; you can clean it all you want but should the M-16 encounter water, sand, etc, in a combat situation it has a good chance of jamming. Rifle maintanance is mandatory in all armies - even those using AKs, so it's not like the maintanace on an M-16 is a special and different case. Again, you're not gonna be cleaning it in the middle of battle if it jams, and this is where the M-16 is less durable. And yes i'm aware of the fact that the modern M-16 is the M-16A2 and are more durable, and that the Vietnam ones were the A1s and that the cleaning kits saved the day. Still the M-16 has a good chance of jamming if it's pushed far. AKs - they won't let you down. And yes you can shovel dirt on it and wait for a rainy day, then pick it back up and it will shoot.

As I said befor - both are great weapons.

Regards,
Maestro

[EDIT] Ofcourse when I was talking about the M-16 encountring water or sand I didn't mean a sprinkle and a speck of dust.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by maestro46]

Just to be an fine contributing ATS member, the modern M16 is the A4. ;-)

Mod Edit: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 24/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

XD I thought the one still widely used in the military was th A2. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards,
Maestro

[edit on 24-9-2007 by maestro46]

The A2 is being phased out. It is a rarity in Iraq. The A4 and rapidly M4 w/rail system is more commonplace now.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by GruntOOrah]

Though the A2 is commonly found in many pog training areas (Ft Jackson, Leonardwood, MCT). I'd go so far to say ALL grunt areas (Benning, SOI, etc) have moved either to A4's or M4

reply to post by GruntOOrah


Cool, thanks for the info man.

Regards,
Maestro

Go for a Vepr II in .308

Get it from robarm.com

Stay away from 5.56 and 5.45 unless you are planning to go full auto.

If that’s the case, 5.45 WILL tumble even at extended ranges do to hollow bullet desing, while 5.56 will not fragment passed 150 yards.

While both richoshet like crazy, 5.56 will actually fragment really badly and will back spray if used in confined areas.

Both REQUARE LOS in order to be effective or they WILL drift even if they hit a leaf or a twig on the way to the target, unless steel cores are used. 5.56 is legallly available, look for “green tips”, while 5.45 come in a standard mil or a hunting round.

A German .308 is the most lethal fragmenting mil round out there.

Good luck to you.

reply to post by Retseh


Armalite devolped the AR15 not Colt, they bought the patent and rights from them.

This is one really retarded question. To make it short te AR-15 was and is the M16
the M16 was the name of the AR15 you moron look it up. Their basicly the same gun with diffrent names.

reply to post by LDragonFire

What i like is that 7.62mm rounds hurt that much more, i got out cause 5.56mm don't even scratch and yank ammo sucks, plastic weapons, plastic ammo, plastic army,plastic president, plastic policies, there was nothing wrong with the FN as an ex member of 2 sqn raf regt i allways preferred the GPMG with an sf bufferplate on it for LRRP foot patrols easier to jump with that way ....... peace through superior fire power

reply to post by LDragonFire

What i like is that 7.62mm rounds hurt that much more, i got out cause 5.56mm don't even scratch and yank ammo sucks, plastic weapons, plastic ammo, plastic army,plastic president, plastic policies, there was nothing wrong with the FN as an ex member of 2 sqn raf regt i allways preferred the GPMG with an sf bufferplate on it for LRRP foot patrols easier to jump with that way ....... peace through superior fire power

the M16 jammed in Vietnam for more than lack of cleaning kits but that is and always will be a big issue. The real prob was the ball powder that the Military used(Remember that old M14) . The ball powder produces much more fouling and that inturn quickly jams the action.
the gun was intended to use Dupont IMR powder. to add to the problem ball powders also have a different pressure curve, so it produces higher pressures at the gas port,giving rise to the rate of fire, thus decreasing accuracy and increasing parts wear.

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