Proof of alien's influence on earthlings: Gravity

Is this question about gravity a valid question that was not covered taking courses in college or high school ?

Who did not explain gravity? The Leaning Tower of Pisa was never mentioned, mass and weight were never mentioned?

Everything like planets and such are free-falling. The velocity matches the rate at which those objects are falling towards a more massive object such as the Sun, otherwise the Earth would crash into the Sun. The reason it does not, is because the velocity of the free-fall is such that it counteracts the mass of the Sun at this distance away from the Sun. The Space Shuttle in orbit is free-falling. Its velocity of free-falling is such that it matches the rate at which it would be pulled into the planet if it were not moving at the velocity it does.

No one ever played the old computer IIC Apple game of Rendevous. In the game you blast off from the pad and try and make it into orbit. Not enough thrust and you fall back to earth burning up, too much thrust and you leave the planet and do not orbit. Your thrust must match for a given altitude your rate that you will be free-falling as the Space Shuttle does during its orbits around the planet.

The Sun is burning very hot and it would dissapate into Space if the Mass of the Sun did not create the force (gravity) to pull and keep it at a radius we measure to be the Sun's diameter because the mass keeps the gases from floating away from the Sun.

Einstein's Theory of General Relativity predicted that near a massive object such as a star light would bend slighty. It did during the Total Eclipse of 1921, so it proved Einstein's theory and he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for it. Since then 75 or more years of testing has proven Einstein's Theory of General Relativity. Einstein in a sense explained it as free-falling in a elevator except you are going up due to being in an inertial frame of reference. In the elevator though you would not know whether you were falling up or falling down.

Gravity is the acceleration due to being in an inertial frame of reference which is like saying that there is motion due to being in an inertial frame -- thus there is force acting all the time on mass -- that is there is acceleration - which is gravity. So Gravity is a Force due to acceleration of the inertial frame of reference for example like the Earth free-falling around the Sun. The acceleration which in this case is one form of velocity is such that it keeps the Earth from falling into the Sun because of the Sun's Mass and the Acceleration (velocity) that the Earth is doing free-falling around the Sun. It matches thus we exist due to not being an asteroid or comet being pulled into the Sun due to the Sun's Mass.

I am sure that you can look up Free-Falling Bodies and come up with a definition of Gravity.

So Gravity has different definitions depending on which inertial frame of reference you are using for an example. There is pull and push between each planet, but it does not compare to the pull and push of the Sun's Mass vs. the acceleration (velocity) that the bodies have, thus it is weaker by quite a bit between each Planet vs. between the Planets and the Sun, but the pull and push between the Moon and the Earth is such that the Earth's Mass keeps the free-falling Moon with its acceleration from falling into the Earth. The end of life would happen. And if the Moon is inching its way away from the Earth the the acceleration of the Moon is such that it will eventually leave the Earth due to it being greater than the Mass of the Earth holding it in its orbit around the Earth.

The Moon has its own inertial frame of reference depending on what you are comparing that inertial frame of reference to - in this case the Earth.

This is Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and it made corrections like to the orbit of Mercury that had some minor quirks to it when mathematically determined by Newton's laws of Gravity. In some instances the corrections are small, so in theory Newton's Laws of Gravity usually are quite accurate but then Einstein made small corrections to what the math was that determined how Gravity interacts between massive objects in the Universe. Thus warped SpaceTime or SpaceTime is Curved, but not so much as usually is thought of as a curve, because essentially the Universe is still in the larger picture still thought of now as being -- flat. It turned out that this curving of SpaceTime was due to massive objects in the Universe, and that this force is thought of and named Gravity. It was equated to being hyperbolic and not parabolic for thinking about how the Universe looks -- that the Universe was/is shaped like a saddle that you would put on a horse instead of a curve that bends the other way. But now, the Universe is not thought of as being as curved like the shape of a saddle that originally was thought that the Universe was shaped as.

Thus it is not wrong with Newton or Einstein it is refined and better measurement are made to determine how things or objects or the forces interact in the Universe. Energy makes this Possible, as the Speed of Light Squared is quite a large number to being with. And Light is Massless or such a small mass they can not determine it with the instruments that we have nowadays. There are really no redifinitions except at the very small instead of the classical sense of describing anything, and that would be the quantum level of definitions that scientists are now working on. Combining the classical thoughts and descriptions with the Quantum Thoughts and descriptions is where scientists are trying to bring the total big picture together.

Now in the quantum sense of describing gravity, it is thought that gravity would be a much stronger force but in a different dimension than the ones we usually describe SpaceTime with and that is length, width, breadth and time. There are thought of as being as many as 10-11 dimensions on upwards to maybe 26 dimensions but I think mainly it is thought of as 10 dimenions thus M-10 or M-11 theory or M Theory of Superstrings. Thus gravity may excert a greater force in a dimension that we can not actually measure yet, because it is thought that there are parallel universes and gravity would also be interacting between paralle universes and thus be much stronger as a force.

The four forces are described that way because they are different form of forces mentioned in another Posting on this Thread.



[edit on 9/17/2007 by AmoebaSized]

Originally posted by chickeneater
Yeah, I know about gravity. It's why we haven't fall through the clouds.

But no one can explain what gravity truly is beyond giving this phenomenon a name. I can name anything too, I mean, Newton didn't discover gravity, he just gave it a name, d'oh.

Why, and what is gravity, really. Why do large things stick like magnets even when their compositon is pure dirt. By physical attractions, why only a few things stick and smaller things don't stick, why human don't stick to eachother. Why all the special rules to explain away those we can't explain when it comes to planets, asteroids, why don't moon's surface have accumulation of rocks like you have when you put a magnet ball amongst ball bearings, etc, etc, etc.

Well, one explanation outside of the box is that gravity is a handicap imposed by aliens.

Gravity, it's artificial.

Gravity is the bowl around the object that is existing. If it is a massive object then it creates a massive "Bowl" around it that is seemingly the gravity. Take a basketball, cut it in half and throw a marble around inside the half and watch it spin until it eventually stops in the middle of the ball half. That is a crude demonstration of what gravity "IS".

Actually Newton was quite an amazing man, although living in the times he lived it was difficult to put across theories that diverted from that of the church. In his notes you can see he NEVER said Gravity was a law, he said gravity is the effect, the cause of which must be something spiritual. I think Theosophy explains gravity quite intensely if you want to read up a bit.

reply to post by chickeneater

So forces just exist? I studied physics thank you (Harvard grad with MIT credits), and it's never explains anything, and neither have you beyond accepting it as a "force".

Sorry, I think we misunderstood your poor use of terminolgy as coming from someone who hadn't studied physics. Let's see what the fountain of knowledge Wikipedia has to say...

en.wikipedia.org...

OK, sorry I don't have time to summarise that myself to give you the help you need but since you have studied physics it should be OK - Must have missed Newton at MIT eh?

Oh yes and you are right, it is only Newtons 'theory' - not his 'absolute proof', there are a number of other 'theories' concerning gravity but I am afraid that is pretty much as good as it gets until we figure out some way to prove that. Perhaps you can in study hall?

Originally posted by tommyknockers

Originally posted by Byrd

I don't understand how you got out of a physics class without the basic definition that a "force" is something that "causes something else to move or perform work or deforms it in a particular way."

I don’t understand how you got to be a “Super Moderator” by missing the point of the thread in the first place. The question I see is not about the math used to explain what happens when particles are attracted but what is causing the attraction in the first place.
MIT, Harvard, string theory, m theory, and even the great Byrd, have not, can not, and will not, ever be able to answer that question.

Thanks tommyknockers,
It's too bad most people missed the point of the thread. They think this is an academic forums, and regard themselves as the utmost authority in an area they probably have no degree on, just general understanding.

The nature of the question was supposed to be whimsical ala ATS style question everything. Yet, when tossed a semi-serious question, people turns "experts".
The question was posed in a forum like ATS with any mentioning of "alien" should be taken as a wild-theory, yet these poor souls have taken it up as a serious challenge and proceed to show others their physics superiority.
Do you even know, ANYTHING you mentioned from ATS to a NON-ATSer will make people call you a NUT? Wake up and see the subject folder of the forum: ALIENS and UFOS. And I don't think those studies will get you ANY credit in ANY CIRCLE, so please stop taking ATS down a "LEGIT" academic path, they day I want to talk about REAL science is the day I sign up for a real physics forum, and ATS ain't it. And NONE OF YOU have a PHD in that area anyways.

Hell, I have read people question TIME and our very EXISTENCE, but it seems questioning GRAVITY is out of the question?

Why don't we have a simple rule: 1. NO QUESTIONING GRAVITY. IT EXISTS, IT'S MEASURERABLE, THUS, DON"T QUESTION IT. And call it a day. And yeah, I don't know about all these tight-a$$es, this is still entertaining to me

ATS will always be where I asked dumb, yet entertaining (to me) questions. Call me dumb and I'll call you UN-PC

And how do I miss all those in physics class? I think studying physics is like studying pop music. When you finally get a firm grasp of the popular accepted theories, it's already outdated.

Chill out and have fun ATSers!

Originally posted by chickeneater
I remember the history when FLAT EARTH was widely accepted.

And your theory is equivalent. You have presented no evidence whatsoever for your 'theory,' which, like many others on ATS, when someone does not understand something, they invoke 'aliens' as if that were an explanation.

ATS's reputation? Please, this is where Aliens and UFO's get discussed, and you want to be taken seriously with that Dark Sith Lord avatar? LOL.

Yeah, 'chickeneater' is so much more sophisticated. You must be so proud. Given your posts and your apparent attitude I, for one, do not believe you went to Harvard or MIT. Secondly, your aliens cause gravity theory is without merit. You could just as well say, "I don't understand the Second Law of Motion, therefore aliens created it.

Although you may consider this an entertainment forum only, there are folks here who are interested in the subject from a serious point of view. And BTW, last post because I don't think this guy deserves any points for this drivel.

[edit on 9/17/2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by chickeneater
and that makes me a thinker beyond the box.

Wow. That's like waving a red flag around in front of me.

Yes, you're absolutely right. You may now leave the sandbox and move on up to the teeter-totter. It is pretty much the same pointless, repetitive entertainment that this thread is delivering.

chickeneater, pay attention please.

This is science done by scientists so it has nothing to do with spacealiens although all of us are spacealiens. Could Spacealiens alter gravity? I suppose if they are advanced that would be an assumption, that they also can alter forces and gravitation is a property caused by gravity.

Objects attract one another in SpaceTime due to mass.

www.understandingcalculus.com...

www-scf.usc.edu...

arxiv.org...

encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com...

Gravity versus gravitation
It is important to note that gravitation is not gravity. Gravitation is the attractive influence that all objects exert on each other, while "gravity" specifically refers to a force which all massive objects are theorized to exert on each other to cause gravitation. Although these terms are used interchangeably in everyday use, it is important to note that in theories other than Newton's, gravitation is caused by factors other than gravity. For example, in general relativity, gravitation is due to spacetime curvatures which causes inertially moving object to tend to accelerate towards each other.

Work is done in the Universe. Force means that work is done, power is generated, and that there are equations that make up the math and science related to all of that.

I would suppose that the spacealiens also know that and are more advanced the Human spacealiens are on this Planet.

This is not a belittlement of you or anything else. It just is fact that we strive to learn more, and that nothing is Set in Stone regarding science. If it were, we never try and venture out into SpaceTime and that is what part of this type of discussion must discuss. The science as we now know that it appears to be. Can it change in the future? Yes, otherwise, there would be nothing else to learn and that does not seem to be reality.

If spacealiens from SpaceTime were altering Gravity then you would know it. It is a force that is exerted on your body every day of the year and on this Planet. Go somewhere else like the Moon and gravity changes due to the difference in Mass of different objects that are free-falling.

If you see via the links, all of these theories especially concerning Gravity has been going on since the time of Aristole (spelling?) and Humans are spacealiens.

But proof has to have something that defines the proof. Usually that is math and conjecture is nothing more than being a debate on providing eventually a proof. To me, there is no proof that spacealien's are having any influence on Earthlings using Gravity. I suppose you would have to find a Human who also thinks that spacealien's are manipulating them using Gravity. That very well could be, but for the rest of us on this Planet, it does not help to just surmise that premis, it also has to be able to convince other Humans that the result is caused by Spacealiens doing that.

As in all things, I venture to say that there are few subjects that do not demand some type of proof or concurrence going on between different minds, a type of understanding to exist before it is universally accepted.



[edit on 9/17/2007 by AmoebaSized]

Interesting, chickeneater. with all the scientific data floating about around gravity, plus other posts about said topic, you still have to be the last one hm? I hate to get so totally Off Topic, but this has been bothering me. While it is interesting that you question scientific theory with ET claims to replace theory, there's always room for discussion. Whats the problem? Every post I see by chicken is almost always 'inflamitory' or derogative toward the posters who second-guess or answer in the way chicken does not like. Being open to answers, either they say what you want to hear, or not, is an intrigal part of communication and understanding. Hear these people out and don't lash out. Not everything has a perfect answer, including gravity and what it is or is not.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by Chiiru]

Originally posted by AmoebaSized
Could Spacealiens alter gravity?

Presumably, really, really big Spacealiens could.....

Wow, what a mass of info. Absorbing it? I watched a few docmentaries with all the graphics and "easy to understand" words and captions. When it was done I switched on to something else with the same gravity field (it is a field?) knowledge I had when I turned on the documentary.

I just cannot conceptulize how it works. Just use it's principles where necessary.

Dallas

Originally posted by AmoebaSized
Objects attract one another in SpaceTime due to mass.

No, mass is a variable used to describe the effects of the attraction. It is not the cause of the attraction.

Originally posted by AmoebaSized
Could Spacealiens alter gravity?

Well as stories goes even their ships cannot defy it,maybe once "the button thingymagig" is pressed or damaged they eat dust,i have read them being shot down..or they just crashed ..and the alien bodies or if there were survivors were lying flat on their face/backs,that is of course if the crash/taking alien crafts out stories are true ..i believe it has happened & will happen again.

They most prob definitely have technology to defy gravity,but even their stuff malfunctions and then gravity is the stronger one.That craft/s was FORCED down to earth..with them inside.

Who dares defies gravity..

reply to post by chickeneater


no need to keep bumping this thread.

he s simply suggesting gravity is manufacturerd by Aliens. just because Scientists-though they can explain it- but cant find its origin and ultimate truth...
Aliens have imposed on us gravity for whatever reason his brain thinks,
since gravity is only found on earth, and only humans are subject to it.
our intepretation of gravity may differ from ET races, and gravity effects may also differ based on physiological and technological advances.

Originally posted by chickeneater
reply to post by evanmontegarde

 

"Forces"? Like energy? Where did it come from? What makes the forces last? Like Jedi Master Force?

Stop giving it name and explain it!

you are a very confused person. you can ask what makes anything last or live, or think or have a consciousness.
not everything science can explain [yet] or ever will.
if science cant tell you where forces came from, but can only "define them", you should turn to the Almighty for answers.

Aliens didnt make it because we cant explain it... what makes you think they dont think we created it...

Originally posted by chickeneater
The nature of the question was supposed to be whimsical ala ATS style question everything. Yet, when tossed a semi-serious question, people turns "experts".

I confess that I didn't saw that as a question.

Saying "Well, one explanation outside of the box is that gravity is a handicap imposed by aliens. Gravity, it's artificial.", to me, does not imply a question, but that may be because I never went to any university and had to learn English all by myself.

I also do not see that as an explanation, saying that is a handicap imposed by aliens does not explain it, and you did not even gave it a new name.

You could at least make an interesting story about apples thrown by aliens or something like that.

Originally posted by schuyler
Although you may consider this an entertainment forum only, there are folks here who are interested in the subject from a serious point of view. And BTW, last post because I don't think this guy deserves any points for this drivel.

You consider his question to be stupid because its not serious yet people take John Lear seriously when he makes outlandish claims like aliens living on most of the planets in our solar system and fusion reactors on the moon. Go figure

reply to post by tommyknockers


Weight is a variable attributed to gravity. Mass is a constant determined by the density and volume of an object. A mass of 1 kilogram weighs 1 kilogram in earth gravity, but at 1/10th gravity it weighs 100 grams and still masses 1 kilogram.
One theory that I've always thought interesting was strange attraction. Atomic bonds that increase in value with the amount of atoms involved. The more dense the atom, the more intense the resulting bonding force. When you get to planet size masses of atoms, they provide a very large bonding force that attracts other atoms from a great distance. The larger the mass of atoms, the larger the bonding force radiated by them. If you call this bonding force that radiates from a stellar object gravity, you end up with a theory on how gravity is formed and why it works, as opposed to just measuring it and calculating it's effect.

I've learned more in the is thread than i did in high school physics class...

This thread is educational

Originally posted by GeeGee

Originally posted by chickeneater
reply to post by Byrd

 

My point is, gravity is an intelligent design. The distance is just so, and the speed is just so, the forces is just enough, it's all too much coincidences.

It's funny that you say that. People also seem to think that we were a result of a big accident, and our complex brains and nervous system were once pond scum. I mean, it really is too much of a coincidence IMO.

Ah, but it is the nature of the human mind to see patterns in things that aren't there...

Originally posted by timelike
Ah, but it is the nature of the human mind to see patterns in things that aren't there...

You mean like this: