Outstanding Article, Best I have read yet..

This is a commentary or refutation of another article but I thought the evidence was presented so well and so thoroughly that others here may find it useful for research purposes. It is a long read but well worth the time.

www.mediamonitors.net...

In my most humble opinion, anyone who reads the material here and can bring themselves to believe the official story, must be in a state of clinical denial. What say you respected fellows?

Originally posted by eyewitness86



In my most humble opinion, anyone who reads the material here and can bring themselves to believe the official story, must be in a state of clinical denial. What say you respected fellows?

This is quite a long read... would you mind pointing out anything the author has to offer that hasn't been brought up here many times....

Also, I am going to be a wee bit skeptical from this author: Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed

Who is:

A former Researcher at the London-based Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC) a non-governmental organisation dedicated to research and advocacy on human rights. The IHRC specialises in human rights in relation to Muslim affairs and is a recognised authority in this field

nafeez.mediamonitors.net...

Sorry to be a bit cautious, but this person may have an agenda.

[edit on 14-9-2007 by CaptainObvious]

And what would that agenda be? Just because he is not a white Priceton grad means exactly what? If you had read the article, it has a great deal of referenced material that makes the case for a conspiracy on 9-11. It is a well done and thoroughly researched piece, and I do not care if Howdy Doody write the words as long as they add up and make sense and are footnoted, like in this one.

So WHY would you look harder at the author than the work? That implies prejudice and a lack od desire to seek the truth. Anything new? What IS new after 6 years of us all waiting for the 9-11 perps to be exposed? Nothing, thats what. But to repeat the main issues always brings us back to the main points; the 9-11 ' attacks ' were an inside job as this piece proves so well. Me think you doth protest too much!!

reply to post by eyewitness86


re-read my post. I asked for you to point out things in the article that we have not discussed already...it is a VERY long article and no sence rehashing trought the same old stuff.

THEN i noted that I will be "skepticle" to his paper since his profession is to deal with the Human Rights of Mulsims. I don't care what the guys nationality is... my point is that he MAY have an agenda. After all his living is the protection of Mulsim rights... and if you don't know this.. it was Muslims that highjacked the planes....maybe and i say MAYBE this man is the one that may be prejudice.

So, please point out what is so interesting in his paper that I should read.

Thank you,

CO

reply to post by eyewitness86


Read about half of the article, the anthrax issue and the Massod issue are well presented.

The conclusions that high level political pressures have prevented legitimate investigation of many aspects of 911 are also well presented. There is some information in here that I was not aware of, thanks for posting this
InfinityO'Reilly

You are most welcome; there is a wealth of info there, although the topics may have been covered elsewhere already, they are presented well and documented thoroughly.

Gee, if someone didn't stnd up for human rights for Muslims, then maybe we would see even more atrocities and murder of people for their beliefs. I hope that human rights advbocates from every religion are active in studying 9-11, why not? Making an assumption about a man just because he supports human rights is not pogical, what difference does it make when the guy does for a living if he is telling the truth and presenting facts?

" Uh oh, look out, he's a MUSLIM "!! Maybe he is a bad guy or a highjacker because he is a member of the worlds largest religion, right? What bigotry!! That sounds like a Bush lie: Demonize all Muslims and disregard what they say, and assume they might have some ' ulterior motive ' just becauee they are Muslim, right? What prejudice!!

That IS a long article but one that shatters the 9-11 official story and so has some benefit. Just because the info is not new and has been covered elsewhere in some degree or other means NOTHING to a seeker of info. It was done wel here and I was impressed; if the guy that wrote it is a Muslim, then so what? If he was a Mormon would that change the material presented? No. Seems to me that someone is trying to equate being Muslim with being slanted or having some agenda, although the accuser never says WHAT that agenda might be given the evidence.

Nitpicking over non-issues sounds like DISINFO to me and a mind made up against people because of the religious views, and that is not fair or right. Judge the man by the quality of his work ( or the content of his character ) but NOT by the religion he esposes. That is the fair and sound way to analyze.

reply to post by eyewitness86


Typical... you offer a bit of skeptisim and your labled a BUSH person. Not once did I say he was a terrorist, hijacker, or anything of that. You need to learn how to read. He is Mulsim and thats not a bad thing.... he works for Mulims rights...again not a bad thing. I am all for Human rights.

I was pointing out that his article (although discussed MANY times here and other forums) may possibly have had an agenda... why not take the heat off the Muslim terrorists and blame the Untied States government?? You guys do it in here at least 50 times a day.

By the way, CaptainObvious, where is your evidence that MUSLIMS higjacked anything? There are NONE on any flight manifests, NONE on any autopsy reports, NONE on any proven list of anything!! Since the identities of the ' highjackers ' was never proven and many of them are still alive and outraged that their names were used, there seems to be NO hard evidence that Muslims did anything wrong on 9-11 , is there? Osama bin Laden is NOT wanted for the 9-11 ' attacks ' as admitted by the FBI, so where are the Muslim hordes trying to conquer humanity?

The SAUDI's who were the fall guys in the plot were no doubt of the Muslim faith, but that is an assumption also, no proof. Saudis were the guys that the intelligence black ops boys used to convince the people that we are at war with an entire religion, and not just some ' terrorists '. There is NO PROOF whatsoever that Muslims pulled 9-11 off; in fact iot was " Christians and Jews " that were the plotters and planners and actors making it happen; I am not aware of amny Muslims in on the PNAC plans and in the inner circles of the Cheney/Rumsfeld/AIPAC crowd.

Muslims were the fall guys and the excuse, not the props. There is NO WAY that a Muslim could pull off the stand down of our defenses and the truning into flour of our Towers..sorry, but that is not believable or likley. Much more likley is the fact that the inside job was done by the Israel/ Neocon cabal that has taken this nation already and is turing it into police state while we destroy and conquer the lands of the people who happen to live where there is oil and territory we lust after for money and power.

The perps of 9-11 are sitting right now in the White House and Pentagon and wood paneled offices plotting the next step in our destruction. The enemies are within, the nation has been taken in a coup, and yet we still read those blaming a bunch of MUSLIMS for the events. Unreal. It was US who did it!! WE are the guilty!! America did it to herself!! We sat back and allowed stolen elections, and we did nothing. We sat back and watched as the Bush crime gang stripped the Cosntitutional protections we enjoyed for centuries away from us, and we did nothing. the the cabal plotted and pulled off 9-11, and then blamed it all on the MUSLIMS, and we sat back and swallowed it.

Now we are seeing the same old lies told over and over and still no one sees the truth..well, some do, but many do not. Like the people who blame " Muslims ' for the plot, when the proof is absolute that the plan was done by US and our military and shadow govt players, loike Daddy Bush, arguable the most evil man in America, perhaps after Cheney. The BUSH/Cheney cabal is a criminal gang and we all know that the official story is laughable, if not for the tragedy it caused. It is plainy and clearly an INSIDE job and no Muslims are to blame.

All someone has to do is say MUSLIM and all the bells go off and all the spurious and silly assumptions beghin. sad, is it not? the real perps walk the halls of Congress and the Senate while the murderers laugh and smile and keep on telling us all the lies, which we seem to swallow with no difficulty, at least for some of us. Not me and not anyone who can read and think, but to a bigot and someone who cannot correctly perceive reality, it makes a good excuse.

The ONLY Muslims involved with 9-11 were patsies told to play along; most were trained at secure US bases by OUR military!! They were FALL GUYS for the plan, and nothing more. It is plain and clear. NO proof exists that proves that Muslims did anything but follow orders from the intel guys, thats all. terrorism is a tactic used by the intel services to effect politocal change and perceptions, and to get more money and power for their bureaucracies, nothing more. Stooges and patsies all. The perps are wearing the US uniform and fine suits while the Muslims suffer occupation and slaughter at the hands of the same people that pulled off 9-11.

A group of no more than a dozen men know the full story, and they are major players: Politicians and corporate bigshots and military bosses; all either American or Israeli. That is what the evidence shows , at least.

Just curious as an innocent bystander, but if Muslim fundamentalists didn't fly the planes then who did?

I'm seriously curious on this point in the conspiracy world. Call me an innocent if you wish, but, go on, tell me.

I'm hoping that replies have some clue about religion and its affects on their believers.

Bananaman.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by Bushwig]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by Bushwig]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
By the way, CaptainObvious, where is your evidence that MUSLIMS higjacked anything? There are NONE on any flight manifests, NONE on any autopsy reports, NONE on any proven list of anything!! Since the identities of the ' highjackers ' was never proven and many of them are still alive and outraged that their names were used, there seems to be NO hard evidence that Muslims did anything wrong on 9-11 , is there? Osama bin Laden is NOT wanted for the 9-11 ' attacks ' as admitted by the FBI, so where are the Muslim hordes trying to conquer humanity?

Your passionate reply is appreciated. Where is my evidence you ask?

I have posted the flight manifest for flight 11. Why haven't you looked at it?



I posted the seating charts, why haven't you looked at them?

I posted pictures of some of the highjackers going through security checks at the airports. Why havent you looked at them?

All but one of the highjackers were estranged from their families. None of them are alive. But please feel free to use a 6 year old article from the BBC that was retracted last October.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Also:

Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens...

Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. But Interior Minister Prince Nayef told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.

"The names that we got confirmed that," Nayef said in an interview. "Their families have been notified."

www.usatoday.com...


I did not say Muslims did it... i said the terrorsist that did this were Muslim. If you would like me to RE post any evidence please feel free to ask... I can point you to the sites or post. Oh... could you please provide me with some evidence that the accused (and dead) terrorists are NOT responsible.

EDIT to add:

IF you would like, evidence that was presneted at the Zacarias Moussaoui trial.. there is a flash download that gives yo uall the evidence you need.
www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

Thanks
CO






[edit on 15-9-2007 by CaptainObvious]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by CaptainObvious]

whatever compelling story that the outsiders weave...

the fact is that the administration, regime, neocons, PNACs, the shadow government elites in the 'think tanks' & central/Fed bankers,
have deliberately put up deadends with classified information that is not released to the public or investigatory commissions,
have deliberately skewed evidence, or withheld it from scrutiny,


in so many words, you, I, or even this highly vaunted source the OP raves about....Is playing the game with the dealer having 'marked cards'
and a 'stacked deck' to begin with.
So, your portrayal of this (or any) source...as the bearer of naked and factual Truth ... is wishfull thinking and a false reality !


believe as you wish...

Finished reading, some compelling arguements for at least LIHOP.

I like the phrase "incompetency theory", it just lets everybody of the hook doesn't it.

That SEATING PLAN obtained by a British tabloid like the National Enquirer came from WHERE? Some ' source ' in the Bush cabal? There were NO NAMES OF ANY OF THE alleged ' highjackers ' on ANY plight manifest for that day; putting a chart up from unknown sources does NOT negate the FACT that there were NO ARAB NAMES on ANY list before and shortly after 9-11. To come up with a phony seating plan from God knows where means nothing.

To answer another posters question, WHO flew the planes, I will tell you who flew them: The remote controller sitting at a console, perhaps on that white plane above Washington on 9-11 and maybe in a secured bunker somewhere. But it is for SURE that no Arabs flew those planes; they had never flown a heavy jet in their lives or qualified in navigation, and those losers could never have flown those jets. It was remotely taken control of. The proof? Here is absolute proof of that: Not ONE pilot among EIGHT tranied pilots managed to flip a swwitch and announce a problem prior to the transponders being turned off.

The ODDS of a few highjackers armed with box cutters being able to " Break down closed and locked cockpit doors, hauling struggling and determined men out of a cramped space, disabling them instantly, and then assuming control, and then turning off the transponders as the very first act, is too much for any rational person to accept as within the bounds of possibility.

The ' highjackers ' mostly Saudis, were FALL GUYS. They were actors playing a part, but they had not been alloweed to see the entire script, of course!! If they had, they never would have stepped foot on a plane, IF IN FACT THEY EVER DID!!

The coronoer at Shanksville said that there was ' not a drop of blood ' and there were ' no bodies '. This in addition to the fact that there was no wreckage either; no wings or tail section, no LUGGAGE, nothing. Just a smoking hole 10 x 10 that looked like a dump for trash. The entire scenario was a carefully crafted sleight of hand that had many elements and took massive planning and a number of actors to accomplish.

But funny how no one can produce a SHRED of proof that any of those supposed ' higjackers ' ever were in play that day. All we see is some ' seating chart ' from whop knows what source. If it came from the government, then we can exclude it as reliable on it's face!! If it was done by someone guessing, then that would make more sense. There is NO proof that any Arabs types were ever on board or in a body bag anywhere.

The supposed few camera shots of the alleged highjackers does not have time and date stamps on them..why is this? Is it possible, or LIKELY, that the perps also arranged for some old pics to be released in order to bolster the official story? No, there are TOOP many unanswered questions that we have never gotten an answer for to accept the official story in any way.

What about the FACT that many, if not all, of the alleged ' highjackers ; had trained at secure US military bases? Isn't that a telling bit of evidence? And still there are those that still cling to a belief that the leaders of this nation are decent and loyal Americans; sory, but this nation is GONE, pal. Gone. It will take a minor revolution to get the perps behind bars and this nation back into a semblance of the system that we deserve and that our Forefathers envisioned for us for all time.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
That SEATING PLAN obtained by a British tabloid like the National Enquirer came from WHERE? Some ' source ' in the Bush cabal? There were NO NAMES OF ANY OF THE alleged ' highjackers ' on ANY plight manifest for that day; putting a chart up from unknown sources does NOT negate the FACT that there were NO ARAB NAMES on ANY list before and shortly after 9-11. To come up with a phony seating plan from God knows where means nothing.

The Globe..is not the National Enquierer, it is the Boston Globe. One of the most respected newspapers in the United States. Thats the source of the posted manifest. The names of the editors are at the bottom right hand side of the document. E-Mail them! Dont start your rant by accusing me of posting tabloid articles. I posted the manifest, you cry "phony". Guess what.... the ball is in your court to prove it fake.

show me the flight manifests that leave off the highjackers names! Please do... i do NOT want to see a victims list. Show me the flight manifest that contradicts what I have posted.

The rest of your rant is nothing but science fiction that belongs on a Judy Woods thread.

What parts pray tell? the parts about the FACT that not ONE pilot was able to get the switch flipped? Hmm? Is that little fact something you don't want to address? Or the part about the coroner stating that no bodies were there? Is that a part you consider worthy of Judy Woods attention? If so, why? What does she have to do with irrefutable facts like those?

The original passenger lists showed NO Arabs or Arab type names whatsoever, YOU go find one that does!! You cannot.No Arab names on any coroners reports either. But that is all just side issues to you, right? We understand, really we do. Many people ignore the hard to answer issues like the taking of the cockpits and NO alarms being given..its hard we know to find a likley and possible way to explain those , so you concentrate on other things that have a maybe or a possible as their main thrust. But don't think that we are ignoring the hard facts, we are not.

Until you can explain a few of the ' anomalies ' that demand attention, no one is going to accept the official story, no matter what. Explain how eight pilots were taken so fast that not one could respon even for a second. Explain that. Tell us how the ' highjackers ' got through FOUR locked cockpit doors before the switch could be flipped? Tell us HOW all EIGHT pilots were subdued and hauled out of a cramped space so fast that they could not react? Not one. Ask us to accept those odds by telling us that these Arabs had boxcutters and threats as their only weapons. Or are you one of those people who also believe that the ' highjackers ' also managed to smuggle guns and knives and mace and gas masks into the planes as well?

See why the official story people are so unconvincing? They never ask us to believe what we see, only what we can imagine if we were on some kind of trip away from logic and reason. No, until they can answer one simple question they can be regarded as losing the credibility debate, for sure. I know that not ONE person will dare answer my question..they would sound too foolish, so they just ignore it, just like I said. Typical response from the losing side in a debate.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

9 flight attendants for 81 passengers? Hmm. I've been on full flights before that had only 3-4 flight attendants. Why so many on this flight? Look at the picture. How could 9 people be walking up and down those aisles? Could be nothing but it is just strange especially when only 1 person can pass in the aisle at a time. So, why were there 9 flight attendants on this flight?

I wonder how somebody knows where the hijackers were seated, because their names weren't on the flight manifests that news outlets released.

I wonder how somebody knows where the hijackers were seated, because their names weren't on the flight manifests that news outlets released.

Quoting from my notes:

"The Boston Globe reported on its web site (I guess the article is still there, but you have to pay for it) Thursday (9/12/2001) that it had obtained a copy of the complete manifest list of the planes hijacked from Boston." cbsnews.

So, their claim uncheckable.

The closest thing to the official manifests that we have is the following:

Documents that look like passenger manifests (with the time stamp 4/10/2002) in the Terry McDerrmott book Perfect Soldiers:
"Which is why we were very interested to see a photo of what looked like a passenger manifest in the Terry McDermott book, Perfect Soldiers. We emailed the author, and he said yes: apparently these were amongst a bunch of investigative files he obtained from the FBI while researching his book. (...) One immediately obvious point is that our lists show the alleged hijackers on each of the four planes. Another indication that the “hijackers weren’t on the manifests” claims are false. Of course that, alone, will be enough for some to claim the documents are fake. And because we (911myths.com) obtained them indirectly, there’s no way to prove otherwise. (...) Another issue arises from the document content. Although they provide passenger names, the lists used fixed fields, so (for instance) only the initial 5 letters of a person’s first name are printed. This surely wouldn’t be the case in a full manifest... Would it? So perhaps what we have is a lower value document, printed output from some other system." 911myths.com, lists.
Notes about the alleged manifest: AA11 list: none, AA77 list: none, UA93 list: Mark Bingham is not included, UA175: Marianne MacFarlane, Jesus Sanchez, Mary Kathleen Shearer, Robert Michael Shearer, Francis E Grogan are not included. Apperently all five of them were working for or connected with UA. 911myths.com.

So, does anyone know what an official manifest looks like?


[edit on 17-9-2007 by Willie911]

Here is Holmgrens take on it; this issue only please and not his other stuff for now. This makes it clear that the FBI's REFUSAL to release the original flight manifests from the affected airlines says all we need to know about the subject. If the names of the ' highjackers ' are on the original papers, why not release them and put a halt to all this talk about no Arabs on board.

archive.indymedia.be...

reply to post by eyewitness86


The talk of "No Arabs On Board" is not wide spread, just on the internet by a few conspriacy theorists. Listen to the phone calls that were placed, listen to cockpit recorders. You can hear them, witnesses described them. There is no question at ALL that who took over the planes and WHO crashed them.

In regards to "flipping a switch"for the pilots, it is not THAT simple. There is a distress code ( i think its 3 numbers) that has to be typed in.