"In God We Trust" and "Under God" the final word

Both were added to their respective things by an act of Congress..

CONGRESS shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion...
(do I really need to provide a citation on this?)

under the Constitution, both were added unconstitutionally, and must be repealed.

"In God We Trust" goes off the money
"Under God" is removed from the pledge.

You're thinking too idealistically. It's true; it should be removed. But this is America. Imagine the turmoil we'd go through just to get a few words removed. And I use money to pay for things, not to yell at for forcing religion on to me.

Think about the likelihood of Atheists, one of the most discriminated and hated minorities of America, making a difference in the American system. Muslims, Hindus, etc are also a discriminated minority. George Bush (senior) even said that he considered Atheists unAmerican because this was specifically a "nation under God".

But I see what you mean. Just a few months ago, our Texas state pledge that we are forced to say every day was changed from...

Honor the Texas flag
I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas
One and indivisible

to:

Honor the Texas flag
I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas
One state under God
One and indivisible

But it was so easy for them to change it without even the consultation of the public, so they should change it back.

But for ages we've had "In God We Trust" on our money and "Under God" in our pledge. Imagine the difficulty of reversing that.

reply to post by Paresthesia


oh, you misunderstood me. i'm not saying it will happen anytime soon, i'm just saying that the argument for removing them is airtight.

hell, it doesn't effect me too much as an american citizen living abroad.

Ah, I see. That's true. I don't know. I just think the whole argument is stupid because it is clearly defended by the constitution yet continues to exist.

reply to post by Paresthesia


you're right... but it seems that you underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I personally am a Christian, so of course i have something to say in this thread in order to defend my faith.

but anyway, as we all know, America was founded upon the Christian faith, so if we take God out of things like The Pledge of Allegiance, The Constitution, etc., you would be altering the very foundations of America. Basically if that happened, you would be changing everything that America is. i do have my problems with the constitution, though. seperation of church and state, no prayer in school, etc..

Originally posted by bobbyboy
I personally am a Christian, so of course i have something to say in this thread in order to defend my faith.

i'm not attacking your faith, i'm defending the constitution.

but anyway, as we all know, America was founded upon the Christian faith,

common misconception. this country was in no way founded upon the christian religion

from Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli (1796), standing US sovereign law:

the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion

also, the constitution makes absolutely no mention of christianity, many of the founding fathers were deists, and we have the separation of church and state.

so if we take God out of things like The Pledge of Allegiance, The Constitution, etc., you would be altering the very foundations of America.

...god is nowhere in the constitution.
and god was added to the pledge in...the 1950s. the pledge was written shortly after the civil war, and did not include "under god"

Basically if that happened, you would be changing everything that America is.

nope, i'd actually be changing it back to what it was meant to be.

i do have my problems with the constitution, though. seperation of church and state, no prayer in school, etc..

...yes, you should be very upset about the same freedom of religion that protects you

if we had no separation of church and state we would be a theocracy, theocracies are bad.

The Constitution? Since when did the U.S. operate under that document?? The Constitution was given up by U.S. leaders at the turn of the 20th century and has been continually dismantled since then.

Forget the issue of removing "In God We Trust" from the paper money, as the Constitution strictly says that the U.S. would operate using only gold and silver coins.

Article 1, Section 10 of the Constitution:

Section. 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

If you want to take "In God We Trust" off of the dollar bill, you're going to have to take up the issue with the Federal Reserve. Remember, the 'dollar bill' is actually a "Federal Reserve Note". The U.S. government did not create that bill.

The Fed, unfortunately for the US, operates outside the realm of the US Gov't, and the voting citizens of the US.

reply to post by Ingolstadt


...yes, let's derail the topic and go completely off into whatever you want to talk about.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
under the Constitution, both were added unconstitutionally, and must be repealed.

"In God We Trust" goes off the money

Not derailing, just giving my input into this. It may have been 'unconstitutional' to put "In God We Trust" on the paper money, yes, but the paper money itself is unconstitutional to begin with.

Not here to agrue the Federal Reserve, just here to point out that we can't expect decisions to made that uphold the Constitution when we've already departed so far in the first place.

Sorry you took it as derailing.

Originally posted by bobbyboy
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

I personally am a Christian, so of course i have something to say in this thread in order to defend my faith.

but anyway, as we all know, America was founded upon the Christian faith, so if we take God out of things like The Pledge of Allegiance, The Constitution, etc., you would be altering the very foundations of America. Basically if that happened, you would be changing everything that America is. i do have my problems with the constitution, though. seperation of church and state, no prayer in school, etc..

Well then you are the epitome of what I am against. People who think their religion reigns supreme over every other religion that encompasses America. You honestly have problems with seperation of church and state, the only doctrine that guarantees MIMS and my basic human rights (freedom of religion)?

Christianity may be the foundation of the colonies of America, but we're a developed country now, not primitive colonies that were centered around churches. And do you honestly think that by removing In God We Trust and Under God we are altering the very foundations of America? You can still go to Church. You can still worship your God. You still have the right to attempt to personally force your beliefs down my throat, but all we ask is that the government not endorse it.

Originally posted by ParesthesiaWell then you are the epitome of what I am against. People who think their religion reigns supreme over every other religion that encompasses America. You honestly have problems with seperation of church and state, the only doctrine that guarantees MIMS and my basic human rights (freedom of religion)?

Christianity may be the foundation of the colonies of America, but we're a developed country now, not primitive colonies that were centered around churches. And do you honestly think that by removing In God We Trust and Under God we are altering the very foundations of America? You can still go to Church. You can still worship your God. You still have the right to attempt to personally force your beliefs down my throat, but all we ask is that the government not endorse it.

Agreed 100%.

reply to post by Paresthesia


And agreed here Kacen. That was beautiful Star from me.

Madness is right too. The US of A was NOT founded on the Christian religion. It just so happened that many of the individuals of that time were getting into the 'Christianity craze' during that time. George Washington himself, our Father, was a deist, no matter how many times a Christian preacher tried to convert him to promote their faith. Many other Founding Fathers were too. Being a deist doesn't mean worshipping 'some false pagan idol or god' or whatever, it's simply having a belief in a higher power. A supreme being. Not necessarily "the one and only" Christian god.

It shouldn't be hard to take a few words off our money and pledge (which while my school forces us to stand up, facing the flag, and recite it every morning or get a referral; I refuse to do it) that shouldn't even be there because it violated our bill of rights. The founding fathers didn't put it on there. They used gold and silver standards. We now have a privately run reserve that just hands out paper that is claimed to have value. That's all.

LET US PLEASE LEAVE GOD IN OUR COUNTRY, ON OUR MONEY AND IN OUR COURTS. WE NEED HIM TO STAY WITH OUR COUNTRY AS WE ALWAYS HAVE...AND HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE.
NOW IS NOT THE TIME IN OUR HISTORY TO EJECT OUR CREATOR FROM OUR LIVES BUT TO PRAY FOR HIS STRENGTH AND MERCY.
HE IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN OUR ONLY ALLY.