Gray Little Man in my room

Interesting.

He wasn't happy with your answer. (i think he was insulted. errm, i know he was insulted lol).

I've known of at least 6 other people who have, over the years, encountered a similar entity. in all instances but one, more than one person witnessed the event or the after effects of the event, or sensed the event as it began (paralyzed, for example, and then released while it went elsewhere in the house and repeated the process with another family member). I'd regale you with all the particulars but don't see any reason to, as i'm sure you'll find a way to say it was sleep paralysis gone amuck in their homes.

Let's just suffice it to say, the answer seems more than likely a bit more complicated. Multiple witnesses who suffered similar effects in the same homes (in more than one home/family) suggests something else is afoot. Perhaps this hynogogia stuff is being caused by an external force like electromagnetism gone off the charts or something. It just doesn't seem right to rubber stamp everything with the same concepts when the particulars become more complex. Although hypnogogia might still be the cause, what is causing the hypnogogia? And why the same types of "night terrors"? The black faceless, tall figure? The small grey men? I dunno, something fishy about it all.

Originally posted by undo
He wasn't happy with your answer. (i think he was insulted. errm, i know he was insulted lol).

No need for him to be insulted by what I wrote, its simply that I work in an environment where almost daily I see folks make up incorrect explanations for the events that occur to them while they sleep. Same as with any job, when you have done it for awhile you can often tell what is going on just by what the person describes to you prior to even running the test. What is really frustrating is when someone tells you what they are experiencing, then I try and explain to them what is really happening, and they come back and tell you that you’re wrong… …Even though you have heard the same thing three or four times a week for years, and it always ends up being what I said to begin with.

Originally posted by undo
I've known of at least 6 other people who have, over the years, encountered a similar entity. in all instances but one, more than one person witnessed the event or the after effects of the event, or sensed the event as it began (paralyzed, for example, and then released while it went elsewhere in the house and repeated the process with another family member).

I have to be heading into the tens of thousands of people that I have watched sleep, all night, almost every night. Out of all those people I have not had anything like this happen even once. However, I have had people who have sworn up and down that all kinds of things have happened throughout the night, but none of it really happened as attested to by the data collected, including video, audio, and polygraph.

Undo, I’ll make you a deal…
I promise that the first time I get someone who starts to float around the room or gets abducted by aliens, I’ll fly up to ATS headquarters, have SO print up this thread, and I’ll literally eat my own words right there in front of the staff.

Considering the tens of thousands of folks who are watched in sleep labs very night (hundreds of thousands if you include folks in hospitals on other type of monitoring); it’s kind of funny that when electrodes are applied, and physiological data accurately recorded, the nocturnal paranormal events just don’t happen.

Point being, that when someone is drowsy, or asleep, their perceptions are extremely askew of reality. With that in mind, you might as well just throw away every reported event which involves the person being in bed. Which just happens to be the majority of these types of events. Why is it that no researcher out there has ever asked that question; “why do these paranormal events almost always involve the person being in some state of sleep”?

If we followed standard scientific “root cause analysis” the answer is an obvious: ”Because they are caused by various parasomnias”.

Originally posted by undo
And why the same types of "night terrors"? The black faceless, tall figure? The small grey men?

As this has been replicated in a lab using electric inductors, the obvious answer is that its something to do with the brain. Kind of like; “why is it that when folks are poked with a needle, 99% of them feel pain?”

An entire family, with three adults and one almost adult, witnessed this. It started in their living room, where a friend of mine was on the couch. she was laying down, facing the back of the couch. she then had that paralyzing thing occur, at the same time she said she could sense something behind her, and in her mind's eye, she could see it was tall and black and totally featureless. she panicked and prayed and it released her and moved into the hall. She leapt up and went to her mom's room (this was a 24 year old). She woke her mom to tell her of it and suddenly her sister, whose room was at the end of the hall, let out a blood curtling scream. Her, her mom, her 26 year old brother who was awoken by the scream, all ran down the hall to the sister's room. she was in bed, her eyes wide open with fear and gasping for air. she described the thing that had attacked her. she said it was trying to suffocate her and that for a few moments, she couldn't move or speak at all.

so if this is sleep paralysis or hypnogogia, it was actually moving through their house. do you see the dilemma?

next, if these are intelligent beings and not actual figments of people's imaginations, why would they let you find them in a lab experiment? it's more than likely, that if you ever do find one or more, that it will be while you are at your most vulnerable, where you have few if any witnesses.

a lady who lived across the street from us, was having reoccuring visits from the black figure thing. everytime she'd wake her husband, it'd vanish, making her look like she was making it up. so finally the guy prayed that he'd be able to see what his wife was seeing and sure enough, he got to see it. then they both prayed over their home, that thing not be allowed to come back anymore and as far as i know, from what they told me, it didn't come back. HOWEVER....

Mom and I went shopping and when we returned home, we found the lights in our home were flashing off and on, that is, until we opened the door. We found my husband barracaded in my mom's room (she was big into prayer, prayed alot, all the time and he felt her room was the safest spot). The black figure thing that had been barred from the lady's house across the street, apparently paid him a visit, while we were gone. Other neighbors on a sidestreet from us, said they wondered what in the heck was going on when one of them noticed the lights in our home and even our porch light, flashing off and on (while we were gone).

What makes this story interesting, even if you can find a way to call it hynogogia, is that it moved around the freakin neighborhood lol

Undo,

Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian and as such I do believe there are satanic things happening all the time. However, I also try to rationalize a situation as best I can before I venture into the unknown.

I think in some instances that defcon was trying to convey that people were claiming things happening while they were being observed. At the very least these people would be reacting to the unknown stimuli that is allegedly invading their space. To me this would include ringing for a technician or nurse (I don't know who is at these sleep centers) or jumping out of bed and running up to an observation window in terror.

A couple of very interesting things:

It was mentioned that your husbands brother was supposedly slammed down on his bed so hard it should have broken. So, why didn't the bed break? From your description I think any single bed would be hard pressed to stay intact afterwards.

Also, this going around the neighborhood thing. It went around the neighborhood much like a story would go around the neighborhood. When I was growing up (range in age of kids in the area 13-19) there was an old house about a mile up the road from my house. Everyone swears it was haunted and each person would have a more amazing story than the last. From seeing figures in the windows to just about any ghost thing you can imagine. At the time everyone was so sure but as the years passed and we all grew into adulthood many of us realized it was more of a case of mass hysteria and story building. There are 2 or 3 that still swear to their story even though others that were in their group at the time have recanted.

I think the more quickly you start believing something the more easily it is believed. I'm sure everyone is deadset that this black figure is real and to them it probably is.

I'm not trying to talk you or your husband into anything or disrespect either of you in any way. Just looking for a rational explanation.

If you are interested there are several threads about "shadow people" in the paranormal forum as this sounds like your black figure guy.

Who knows what lurks just around the corner.

Did it speak english?

If not, it was probably just the cleaning lady.

jbondo,

I'm not necessarily of the opinion that they are demonic/satanic. it could be some kind of electromagnetic interference that is short circuiting something in the brain with a similar outcome and would explain how it moves from room to room as a natural phenom like that could move around in a specific area. It could be extra-terrestrial. It could be spirit world related (ghosts, etc), a paranormal phenomenon. Or it could be satanic (considering i think "Satan" was actually sumerian "Enki" (or that's my theory), I'm not sure how he would play into it. Demonic, maybe, but this ties into the spirit world scenario. I'm choosing medically related as the last alternative as it only describes a small portion, under special conditions

Personally, I think you believe what you want too. I got a car cover in my garage that is on a chair and every morning I go in it scares the crap out of me cause it looks like a alien...........grey

I dont move it because I have to get over that fear and not fear the unknown.

Maybe you should too.

Originally posted by Keebie
Personally, I think you believe what you want too. I got a car cover in my garage that is on a chair and every morning I go in it scares the crap out of me cause it looks like a alien...........grey

I dont move it because I have to get over that fear and not fear the unknown.

Maybe you should too.

Well there you go. Let's just chalk it up to unreasonable fears. It doesn't actually happen to these people. It's all emotion related. And the people just need to relax eh?

I've not had any of these visits myself, thank you very much. But I certainly don't call the people who have had them, emotional basket cases that just need to take a chill pill. What is it with people that makes them feel as if they have to chalk everyone else's experiences up to what they personally are comfortable with and then tell them that's what it is? Perhaps the deniers are the ones who are afraid.

Can´t you make a draw of the supossedly alien?

It could be interesting.

Sorry for my english.

Originally posted by undo
I'm not necessarily of the opinion that they are demonic/satanic.

Yes, I was aware of that and didn't mean to infer anything.

When you say medical is last on the list....Could you explain further?

Originally posted by jbondo

Originally posted by undo
I'm not necessarily of the opinion that they are demonic/satanic.

Yes, I was aware of that and didn't mean to infer anything.

When you say medical is last on the list....Could you explain further?

Just not related to an outside force. Probably not the best way to explain it, I guess. What i guess i'm trying to say is, that currently, hypnogogia is seen as a medically explainable reason for these types of experiences right? It's a medical term to describe the event. But what's causing the event? The word hypnogogia can't cause the event. If they claim the brain just does it for no reason, maybe genetically or dietary related, that's a medical approach. I'm more inclined to believe it would either be some kind of outside force like an electromagnetic field that can move around, or a deliberate beam perhaps, not necessarily meant to target the people effected, but does so anyway? I don't know. The fact that these experiences can be somewhat random, but not entirely random, also adds a further level of complexity, don't you think?

Like the lady who kept seeing it till her and her husband prayed and then it never came back. Or the two brothers who had been tinkering with an ouija board and that night, a visit. There's alot of examples in ufology where people who were claiming to be harrassed by ETs since they were children, have found rescue from the experiences by engaging in prayer of a specific nature. The possibility these things are connected is still there, as it's hard to discount them entirely, even in the face of lab experiment data.

No the word can't cause events but the symptoms of the word can. And to have such things happen are not always associated with a medical condition. In fact most of these brain associated occurrences happen to relatively normal people. I know several people that have experienced sleep paralysis including myself (once). I wouldn't be so quick to put it these associations last the list.

Regarding prayer and Ouija boards, I truly believe that there are cases of something being driven off by prayer and I just don't like Ouija boards plain and simple. However, there are also cases of things being psychosomatic and just the act of prayer brings relief thereby stopping the episode.

Bottom line is I wasn’t there and therefore I have no right to make any assumptions but I think you’ll agree, it’s a great conversation.

I am sorry, I seemed to have lost this thread for a bit, so I figured I better come back and answer these questions.

Originally posted by undo
so if this is sleep paralysis or hypnogogia, it was actually moving through their house. do you see the dilemma?

Undo, your kind of comparing Apples to Oranges. I never said that I believe that every strange thing that happens is related to Sleep issues. If I did, then show me where I said this at? What I did say is that most of these ones that start out with “When I was in bed”, “I woke up”, and so on, are sleep related. You must evaluate them on a one by one basis, and in this particular thread, it falls into the “most likely sleep related” category.

I have seen firsthand, folks claim that strange things have occurred, when it was nothing but a hallucination.

Originally posted by undo
next, if these are intelligent beings and not actual figments of people's imaginations, why would they let you find them in a lab experiment?

Well then I guess you have the answer to folks being abducted, they simply need to be monitored when they sleep.

Maybe they should buy some old polygraph equipment and hook themselves up every night.

Anti-Paranormal Grounding Apparatus

Originally posted by undo
I'm choosing medically related as the last alternative as it only describes a small portion, under special conditions

No, what I am saying is that these events are overwhelmingly sleep related when they occur during a period where the person is putting their mind into stage one sleep. I think that the true paranormal events are much rarer.

Originally posted by undo
What is it with people that makes them feel as if they have to chalk everyone else's experiences up to what they personally are comfortable with and then tell them that's what it is? Perhaps the deniers are the ones who are afraid.

I am not afraid in the slightest. As we have meet before in religious threads you should know that nothing paranormal bothers me as I feel I have a level of protection from any such thing. I also believe that there are some things which happen that defy explanation, and have even experienced a few firsthand. Again though, when it happens while you’re in some level of sleep, immediately prior to, or after sleep, then you cannot trust that it really happened the way you recall.

Originally posted by undo
Just not related to an outside force. Probably not the best way to explain it, I guess. What i guess i'm trying to say is, that currently, hypnogogia is seen as a medically explainable reason for these types of experiences right?

Again you must look at it on an event by event basis.

Originally posted by undo
It's a medical term to describe the event. But what's causing the event?

Chemicals! Especially Dopamine which they are finding plays a role in the hallucinations of folks with schizophrenia.

Originally posted by undo
The word hypnogogia can't cause the event. If they claim the brain just does it for no reason, maybe genetically or dietary related, that's a medical approach.

Yes, medicine, diet, substance abuse, can all play a role in altering the brains chemistry, and how much of what chemicals are secreted.

Originally posted by undo
I'm more inclined to believe it would either be some kind of outside force like an electromagnetic field that can move around, or a deliberate beam perhaps, not necessarily meant to target the people effected, but does so anyway?

In my experiences EMF does play a roll in strange things occurring. I don’t know if its due to the effects of high EMF on the brain, or what, but remember that the reason we can read the brain with EEG is because its electrical. So to say that a strong electric field can have an effect on the brain is not stretching things in the slightest. Remember that there was a group in Canada who were inducing paranormal events by submitting peoples brains to electromagnetic inductors hooked up to the lobes of the brain at the 10/20 locations. Different frequencies when applied to these inductors could alter the firing of specific neurons, and produce different effects.

Originally posted by jbondo
it’s a great conversation.

Yeah it is a good conversation by all those involved.
I only wish I could tell you some more specific events that I have seen but it would be hard without crossing that fine line of professional confidentiality.

Reading all of this has gotten me to thinking about various experiences i've had over my lifetime. Some of them are probably easily explainable by the hypnoticwtfever defcon was talking about, then there's the others that can't be explained by it.

Should i maybe start a new thread to cover this stuff? This thread seems pretty well advanced already, plus i'd hate to derail it, and/or steal the OP's thunder...

What do you guys think?

Originally posted by Daedalus
Should i maybe start a new thread to cover this stuff? This thread seems pretty well advanced already, plus i'd hate to derail it, and/or steal the OP's thunder...

What do you guys think?

I think that's up to the OP. Although I don't think she'd mind sharing in this case.

Originally posted by Daedalus
Should i maybe start a new thread to cover this stuff? This thread seems pretty well advanced already, plus i'd hate to derail it, and/or steal the OP's thunder...

What do you guys think?

I think as long as the topic stays on this type of subject we are not really sidetracking it per-say, considering that the OP stopped posting on page two. If you want to make a new thread, then that is cool too, just do us a favor and post a link to the new thread on this thread so folks who are interested can find it.

Ok, well, my stuff has to do with run-ins with a rather nasty creature (or creatures, not sure if it was the same one twice) that's as of yet excaped classification. Additionally, i've got stories about various paranormal occurrences and events. I'm not sure if this thread would be suitable, and if not, which section of the forum would i post?....cryptozoology?, paranormal?, Aliens?

any advice?

I would put it in paranormal.
Make sure and post us a URL.

k, done.

Paranormal Grab Bag

Originally posted by defcon5
As to why the most frequently hallucinated experiences are falling, and little gray beings, I have no answer other then to say, “that’s just the way it is”.

Falling is generally associated with returning suddenly to the body while astral traveling.. something disturbs the sleep and you are "yanked" back, thus feel like you are falling, and as its the last thing you do before you wake up, its the most vivid memory. This has been described by Buddhist monks for thousands of years

The reports from Area 51 say the grays communicate with telepathy... and if so reaching to our subconscious mind when we are asleep is a lot easier. Why they pick certain people I do not know yet.

You say you have no answer and “that’s just the way it is”. I bet you never once considered the above two reasons as a possiblity, and would rather say people are hallucinating or on chemicals.

A doctor is a better person to ask that question too though.

This is highly unlikely... they will only try to "correct" your thinking and if that fails they have these special rooms for you... usually with more chemicals added to the program, and sometimes they use electro shock therapy and lobotomy to help you see the error of your ways

If you want a true answer about your dreams, find a local Native tribe and seek out a shaman

Note: if anyone has dreams of meeting aliens you can U2U me with your story

[edit on 21-7-2007 by zorgon]

[edit on 21-7-2007 by zorgon]