Undercover Team Exposes Network Of 400 to 500 Radical, Anti-U.S. Islamic Centers

Insight really has no credibility at all... they specialize in right wing scare mongering. The number seems really skewed but given the source that is not surprising. 4 to 500 Islamic centers would be a quarter to a third of all the registered Mosques in the country.

Originally posted by xmotex

LOL.

Well you obviously have no idea how constitutional law works, the First Amendment protects pretty much all political speech, and the Ninth has never been held to impose any restrictions on the First, quite the opposite.

While the First protects speech, it doesn't protect all actions however.
.............

It is obvious it is you who has no idea what you are talking about..

Six members of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC), a radical animal rights group, have been sentenced to between one and six years in prison by a federal jury in Trenton, New Jersey, for inciting threats, harassment and vandalism against a company that uses animals to test the safety of drugs and chemicals.

The jury found the six defendants guilty of inciting violence against people and institutions who did business with Huntingdon Life Sciences

www.militia-watchdog.org...

.....Do note they were sentenced not only because of vandalism, but because of inciting threats, and harassment also...

The only reason why not many other extremists, such as White Supremacists, who have incited violence, hatred, and harassment on other people because of the color of their skin, or their nationalities is because groups like ACLU defend people like White Supremacists...

Such groups, such as ACLU, are also the reason why these days criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens...

Next time before you try that smug glow of self-congratulation, I would check some facts at first if i were you.

[edit on 17-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by grover
Insight really has no credibility at all... they specialize in right wing scare mongering. The number seems really skewed but given the source that is not surprising. 4 to 500 Islamic centers would be a quarter to a third of all the registered Mosques in the country.

It has a lot more credibility that some of the links which some people use as evidence.

I guess you would refer to "AlexJones" as a "reliable source"....

Originally posted by xmotex
.................
You'd like to pretend the problem is Islam itself, because it suits your murky political & cultural purposes. The real problem is not a particular religion, but violent religious extremism in general.

Any and every group which incites violence, hatred, or harassment is treated in the same way in the United States as "Islamic extremists" who also incite violence, harassment and are seeking to kill others.

BTW, last time i checked it was Islamic extremists who killed over 3,000 Americans in 9/11, and don't give me that crap that it was the government, because it has been clear from the beginning that it was "Islamic extremists"...

Originally posted by shots
Also when I replied it was directed towards the fact that Islam already says it is ok to kill Gays where as to the best of my knowledge the Christian movement that you allege is so bad has not.

Rushdoony, North, & other prominent Christian Reconstructionists have called for the death penalty for homosexuality once they take over, repeatedly. Hell Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, has called for the death penalty for rebellious teenagers...

Originally posted by Muaddib
Such groups, such as ACLU, are also the reason why these days criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens...

Next time before you try that smug glow of self-congratulation, I would check some facts at first if i were you.

More far right propaganda claptrap

And the case you pointed out has nothing to do with political speech, these people were arrested for inciting violence and harassment, not for political speech.

Whooosh!

Ok these guys need to record some damning evidence and bring it forth to the FBI. I don't accept that that many mosques are preaching violence against America. but there is no doubt at the very least, a few that are doing so. If this is the case, this group needs to build some evidence and get it to the FBI. I dont advocate profiling, but I am no fool either.

Obviously there are those who would like to take the WRONG approach to changing Americas foreign policies, and violence is at the top of the list of WRONG. Those who believe so should be documented and treid for whatever crimes they are commiting or conspiring to commit.

The BEST and probably EASIEST way to change our nations foreign policies is active participation in the democratic system. If these mosques would simply hold rallies where they would gather all of the citizen Muslims and go en masse to voting stations EVERY election, I think they could very well send a strong and peaceful message. That message being, we accept America, because we obviously chose to live here rather than somewhere else, but we do not agree with some things they are doing across the world.

I think if every mosque in America did this in the next Presidential election, not only would we have some interesting commentary and live movements on national television, it would be an excellent exchange of cultures and ideologies at the polling stations. It would give alot of insight into a group of America that is not regulalry exposed to us regular folk, and give the opportunity to clear up many misconceptions and overcome a deal of fears.

As far as the preaching violence though, there is absolutley not necessary and should be dealt with within the parameters of the law.

Ya know muaddib I almost clicked the ignore button on you but then I remembered that is your ploy when you don't want to hear what anybody else has to say.

BTW I don't even know who Alex Jones is and I really don't care.

What classifies as radical these days?....


If all they did was condemn the invasion, and support resistance against a military dictatorship that has been imposed on their innocent people is classed as 'radical'....

then holy crap, im radical.

Originally posted by xmotex

Rushdoony, North, & other prominent Christian Reconstructionists have called for the death penalty for homosexuality once they take over, repeatedly. Hell Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, has called for the death penalty for rebellious teenagers...

Still means little if anything as compared to Muslims those are future tense. The Muslim claim was past tense meaning they already said it was ok.

Now where are the demographics on these groups? I know at least two of us that would like to see some numbers to compare. So far all you have given is one two three or perhaps four names which mean nothing since your claim was they out number fanatical Muslims.

Now use just the estimated numbers of suspected hijackers for 911 you have 19, then at least two to three for the first bombing attempt of the towers. Add in the shoe bomber plus those involved in PanAm flight 97 estimated at four and that is a very low estimate on my part mind you then divide those into the total and you can see who has more fanatics.

Islam already says it is ok to kill Gays

Shots, I aint trying to call you out on this, but could you source where in the Quran it says its is ok to kill homosexuals? I am just curious and like to read as to how it justifies such a thing.

Wouldn't youasgree however that it would be a good thing for these mosques to rally at the polling stations though instead of preaching violence?

Originally posted by DYepes
Shots, I aint trying to call you out on this, but could you source where in the Quran it says its is ok to kill homosexuals? I am just curious and like to read as to how it justifies such a thing.

Under a reasonable interpretation of the Koran, there isn't anything that says that homosexuals should be killed. However, Sharia Law--in some respects the institutional branch of radicalized Islam (disclaimer: not all Muslims)--does seem to embrace such a view. From Wikipedia:

Homosexuality, moreover, is considered a grave sin. In Hadith, Muhammad clarifies the gravity of this by saying: "Allah curses the one who does the actions (homosexual practices) of the people of Lut," repeating it three times; saying in another Hadith: "If a man comes upon a man then they are both adulterers." Here, he considered homosexuality tantamount to adultery in relation to the Shari’ah punishments because it is an abomination on the one hand, and the definition of adultery applies to it on the other hand.....As for lesbians, Muhammad said about them: "If a woman comes upon a woman, they are both adulteresses." The homosexual receives the same punishment as an adulterer. This means, that if the homosexual is married, he/she is stoned to death, while if single, he/she is whipped 100 times.

International controversy came about when two gay teenagers were publicly executed (following lashings in prison) in Iran, 19 July 2005, for homosexual relations. The youths were hanged in Edalat Square in the city of Mashhad, in north east Iran. The youths were believed to have been 16 years old at the time they had had relations. Under the Iranian penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be hanged. Three other boys have gone into hiding due to the incident. Gay men have been publicly executed in Saudi Arabia, where beheading is the primary method, and in Taliban Afghanistan, where men were crushed with large boulders.

Wouldn't youasgree however that it would be a good thing for these mosques to rally at the polling stations though instead of preaching violence?

No problem with me. Let's have an open dialog about ideas.

[edit on 6/18/2007 by Togetic]

Originally posted by shots
Still means little if anything as compared to Muslims those are future tense. The Muslim claim was past tense meaning they already said it was ok.

That's a pretty desperate (and almost nonsensical) semantic evasion.

You're so busy banging the "OMG Islam is coming to get us" drum you can't accept that there are Christians who are just as bad.

Violent religious fanatics are bad, mmmmkay?
It doesn't really matter which religion they use as an excuse.

Originally posted by xmotex
You're so busy banging the "OMG Islam is coming to get us" drum you can't accept that there are Christians who are just as bad.

Violent religious fanatics are bad, mmmmkay?
It doesn't really matter which religion they use as an excuse.

I agree with you that all fanatics are bad.

But we have to be practical: we have limited resources, and right now there are active plans being drawn up by adherents of radical Islam to commit large-scale crimes. The fact is that even though there are bad Christians out there, the movement on their end is not as mobilized as the radical Muslims. It thus makes sense that if we have to choose where to pool our resources, we have to go after the active groups first. The Christian radicals (those who would use large-scale violence to achieve their ends) just don't pose as great a threat right now; their numbers just don't seem to be as large just empirically speaking.

I don't think that just because the government is focusing on radical Islam it means that they are ignoring all other religious extremists; but they are making conscious choices about which groups are at this moment in time more likely to cause a disaster in the next ten years and focusing their energy there. Isn't that just reasonable? If there were large numbers of Christians making plans to blow up people or buildings or whatever, the government would be focused on them more. As well as they should be.

Originally posted by DYepes

Shots, I aint trying to call you out on this, but could you source where in the Quran it says its is ok to kill homosexuals? I am just curious and like to read as to how it justifies such a thing.

I never claimed the quran said it was OK that declaration came from at least one Iman in the UK. (Source Given back on last page) There may be more, I do not know for sure, as I really do not care. I do know however that many sources claim that Muslim scholars consider homosexuality as being very sinful.

Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be sinful and a perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful.

Islam clear stand on homosexuality

[edit on 6/18/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by xmotex


That's a pretty desperate (and almost nonsensical) semantic evasion.

English translation "I cannot back up my claims with numbers and facts."

Which is just as I thought. I at least could name over 20 while you only could name 4 or 5. and you call that semantical evasion? I do not think so.

Originally posted by DYepes

Wouldn't youasgree however that it would be a good thing for these mosques to rally at the polling stations though instead of preaching violence?

Would it matter much? How many politicians have pretty much pledged their support towards Israel no matter what. If you ask me this is a concerted pre-emptive effort to cut off arab special interests groups before they become a problem, too powerful or competition for AIPAC and Israel in general. Mosques, CAIR and many of the Islamic humanitarian organizations have been labeled as terrorist and have been shut down, or even arrested and had their assets frozen. Imagine if Israel lost American support towards the occupation? Towards its military funding? They can't afford to invest millions in political backing and not have it come out their way. Competition would be devastating. Not to mention how many of them collect humanitarian aide for Palestine. All of those have been pretty much shut down.

English translation "I cannot back up my claims with numbers and facts."

BS, I've already backed up my claims with facts.

Numbers, when we're dealing with fanatics who operate covertly, are scarce and unlikely to be accurate.

Originally posted by xmotex
BS, I've already backed up my claims with facts.

You are kidding right??? You named one group and two pepole or was it one> No big deal there one or two is all you could name which was my point.

As for your other comment, If that is the case why then was it so easy for me to come up with over 20 just off the top of my head from memory?

It is not as hard as you think knowing and reading the numbers arrested for plotting to take down the Sears tower (there were 7) then plotting to blow up JFK pipelines that resulted in 3 arrested with one being looked for. and let us not forget the Six Arrested for Plotting to Kill Soldiers at Fort Dix, N.J. Then you also had the one lone grenade wannabe in Ill, the list goes on and on. Sure it was hard work for many but obviously not as hard to identify them, as you think at least not for the FBI CIA, etc and other police Departments

You know, this crap keeps on, yet, you have groups of people in this country that want open borders. The idea is laughable to me. You don't think these maniacs are crossing our borders? Think again. They are crossing them with regularity.

Some of you seem to be doubting this. I don't. Yeah, I am a conspiracy theorist, but I am not so carried away with conspiracy culture that I can't see that a pigeon is a pigeon.

This issue isn't even about "persecuting Muslims;" it reverts right back to national security, in my honest opinion.

“If we let our guard down, another 9/11—maybe even something worse—is going to happen again,” he said. “We need to be proactive rather than reactive.”

We already have

Our guard has been down. If it weren't, these people wouldn't even be in this country.

[edit on 18-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]