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Conflict between Spain and USA.

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posted on Jun, 14 2007 @ 11:23 PM
I guess, US company operated in Florida has stolen Spain's treasure.

"(AP) A Spanish court has ordered police to capture and search two vessels belonging to a Florida firm that recently announced it had found a shipwreck in the Atlantic Ocean laden with an estimated $500 million worth of Colonial-era treasure, news reports said Tuesday.

The court in the southern port city of Cadiz instructed police to capture the vessels should they leave the British colony of Gibraltar, on Spain's southern tip, and enter Spanish waters, leading radio station Cadena SER and other media outlets reported.

The reports came out late Tuesday night after the court had closed and it was not immediately possible to confirm them.

The two ships, "Odyssey Explorer" and "Ocean Alert," belong to Odyssey Marine Exploration and are believed to have been involved in the exploration that led to the discovery of the treasure disputed by Spain.

Spain last month filed claims in a U.S. federal court over Odyssey's find, arguing that if the shipwrecked vessel was Spanish or was removed from its waters, any treasure would belong to the country.

In Britain, the find generated press reports that Odyssey had salvaged the wreck of the long-sought British vessel Merchant Royal, which sank in bad weather off England in 1641. Odyssey has not confirmed or denied these reports.

Odyssey insists the shipwreck was outside any country's territorial waters but would not give the exact location or name of the ship. It has said the treasure of gold and silver coins was flown back to the United States from Gibraltar.

Speaking by telephone Tuesday from the United States, Odyssey co-chairman Greg Stemm said Spanish police were welcome to board the ships whenever they wanted.

"Everything we have done we have reported to the Guardia Civil (police). We have invited them on board the ship before and we welcome them to come on board anytime they want to see the ship or inspect what we are doing," said Stemm.

"And we have had a standing invitation for archeologists from Spain to join us since January of 2006 and we still have that invitation out there," he added.

Cadena SER said Spanish Civil Guard police were to be posted off Gibraltar port in preparation should the vessels try to leave. The court order said the ships should be taken to a Spanish port so that their holds can be searched. The ships cannot be boarded by Spanish police as long as they remain in Gibraltar.

Culture Minister Carmen Calvo described the order as "magnificent news," and said the Spanish navy would be prepared to help in the capture, if necessary.

"International laws are behind us and if anything outside the law occurred it will have an answer, and what is ours will return to Spain," the national news agency Efe quoted Calvo as saying.

The minister added that Spain had asked Britain and the United States for information regarding the customs papers used by the plane that transported the coins out of Gibraltar."


posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 03:11 PM
How is that a conflict between Spain and the United States?

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 03:17 PM
Conflict between Spain and the U.S...
Won't happen.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 03:43 PM

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
How is that a conflict between Spain and the United States?

Contrary to popular belief, conflicts don;t have to involved planes and bombs.

This could end up in a big legal conflict that may drag on for years. It is Spanish property, according to Spanish Law, but it does depend on where the find was located.

If a US registered ship finds $500 million worth of gold within the Spanish EEZ and then takes that gold back to the US for sale or otherwise profitable venture, that would be a breach of international law, considering that it would be an "economic activity" and therefore illegal, considering only Spain has rights to "economic activity" within it's own EEZ.

If outside the EEZ, then they are still in breach of a particular Spanish Law that designates all historic wrecks of Spanish origin as Spanish state property, regardless of where they are located and removing anything from such wrecks is theft.

This probably won't be resolved soon, although I think the company in question has something to hide, seeing as they have declined to say the name of the ship, it's nationality or it's location. It's almost as if they were buying time to get the loot back to the US before the Spanish could stop them.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 04:31 PM
Yes, I concur, it is very suspicious that US company didn't wanna tell the name of the ship or if they found anything. I am sure they have something to hide. and I support SPain's gov big time time on such matter.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 04:36 PM
Im sorry but heres my take.

You Drop it, and dont keep looking for it, its fair game, I dont care if it had your SS # on it, It becomes the oceans and if your talented enuff to find it, its yours.,

If they want it, tell that company to drop it back in the ocean and have the spanish go get it! lol

All that time and effort of that US company to find this treasure in many ways entitles them to the booty!

Just seems to me like spain is trying to get a easy 500 mil.

whether its theirs or not, they havent continued the search for it an therefor have abandoned their rights to the objects.

If I drop a a 100 dollar bill in a forest with my name and address on it, I wouldnt be able to get my bucks back.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
If I drop a a 100 dollar bill in a forest with my name and address on it, I wouldnt be able to get my bucks back.

According to the law, you should be able to. What the problem is not your protection under the law, but rather people's dishonesty. For them to find the money and not make an attempt to return it to it's rightful owner is theft.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 04:54 PM
Can I see the info on this law? is it federal or state? Not saying your lying just want to read further into it.

Is there a law on abandoned 18th century Booty always belonging to the owner?

and if so, does US share the same laws? I bet its a logistical Nightmare.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 05:00 PM
Well, to be honest, I'm quoting British Law, but the premise is the same. It is theft as it isn't yours.

Here in the UK, if you find money, technically your supposed to hand it in to the Police, giving your particulars and where it was found. If no one claims it within 6 months , you can keep it. Take it there and then, and your stealing.

I have to say that my understanding of the Law of the Sea is that people would have salvaging rights to a wreck, provided they acquire the relevant permissions from the authorities should it be within a certain countries waters.

Seeing as they are declining to give a location, one has to wonder whether they had the correct salvaging rights or any at all. Like I explained above, if they took it from inside Spanish waters, then Spain has a strong claim.

If it was outside, they are steal violating a Spanish Law, but apart from running the risk of Prosecution if they enter the EU, I am not sure what else Spain can do. I would imagine that if they have broken a law, then the US would extradite any persons concerned.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 05:06 PM
I did a bit of reading and from what I can figure out is that if it was in international waters, I think it's pretty unlikely Spain will be able show that they still have title on property abandoned long ago, so I think the Law of Finds would apply. But, if they can somehow show that it was Spanish government property and they had always intended to retrieve it, then Spain might be able to claim title on the property, but they will still owe the people who found it a portion of the value due to rights of salvage in order to recover it.

posted on Jun, 15 2007 @ 05:23 PM

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I did a bit of reading and from what I can figure out is that if it was in international waters,

Therein lies the problem.

Just to clarify, when you say "international waters", you mean the High Seas, correct?

In that case, if the salvages where inside the 200 mile EEZ, which is not international waters/high seas, then these chaps might have some explaining to do.

EDIT: Incidentally, what is the "FREE PARIS" thing about?

[edit on 15/6/07 by stumason]

posted on Jun, 16 2007 @ 11:49 PM
several years ago right after a treasure hunter found a major find of a spanish galleon loaded with gold and silver raped from the new world spain brokered a treaty with us basically making any one of the 2 countries warship wreaks a graveyard site where nothing could be salvalged except by goverment authorities. immediately the trasure hunter was ordered to give over all his salvaged stuff and the location of the ship by state department he told them to get bent and they seized his assets but never got locatrion of ship. in my opinion spain ain't entitled to crap they didn't look for it they didn't find it so to hell with them

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