Joe Says: We Must Prepare for Possible Strike on Iran!

Originally posted by neformore
Ha! Why is a nuclear armed Israel acceptable, but not a nuclear armed Iran?

Gee, I don't know. Maybe because Israel doesn't constantly spout rhetoric that they want to wipe Iran off the face of the earth, nor hold government sponsored (political) cartoon contests that laugh/make light of/gloat over the millions of Jews murdered in Nazi concentration camps.

International Holocaust Cartoon Competition

And when it comes to Nuclear Weapons even bad taste is a good enough reason to deny a country access.

Pokey Oats

Actually, Iran has never directly threatened Israel with attack, though they have called for "regime change" in Israel more than once. Meanwhile Israel (a country that actually has nuclear weapons) has been directly threatening to attack Iran for quite a while now.

Personally I don't care much for either government, and IMHO if they were to wipe each other off the face of the Earth, it would be a net gain for the rest of the species.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

Much of the world hated USA before 9/11 and before the invasion of Iraq just because it represented different values and Mammon to them. Doing nothing will not make the threat go away. USA would be a target whichever course it takes now.

I beg to differ. Much of the world (places like South America, the ME, Central America, etc) hate the US because US leaders have supported or launched, direct or proxy warfare, designed to crush revolutionary change in those regions (be it democratic or communistic/socialistic change). While claiming to want peace, US leaders have supported some of the most ruthless and vicious dictators and despots this world has known. While claiming to promote democracy, US leaders have crushed popular governments and peoples revolutions worldwide. The actions of US leaders differ greatly from the compassionate image thats presented.

Isreal has benefitted greatly from its alliance with the US in arms, military equipment, and general trade. Regardless of what you believe, Iran, and many other Arab nations pose a threat to Isreali national security and therefore to US interests.

Originally posted by Pokey Oats

And when it comes to Nuclear Weapons even bad taste is a good enough reason to deny a country access.

Pokey Oats

Well I guess its an obvious next question...

Why does the US have them then?

Originally posted by xmotex
Actually, Iran has never directly threatened Israel with attack

Actually, in October of 2005 Iran called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

Link
JERUSALEM -- France Spain and Canada on Wednesday condemned comments by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

The hardline leader, who came to power in August, made the comments to students Wednesday during a Tehran conference called "The World Without Zionism," according to state-run media in Iran.

At this point you could argue that they have not directly said they were going to attack Israel but judging by your posts I believe you're intelligent enough to not fall into the fallacy of these kinds of semantics.

Pokey Oats

Originally posted by neformore
Well I guess its an obvious next question...

Why does the US have them then?

Because it was the US that invented the first atomic weapon to win the Pacific conflict of WWII.

Wikipedia
December 7, 1941

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. On the morning of December 7, 1941, planes and midget submarines of the Imperial Japanese Navy began a surprise attack on the U.S. under the command of Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo.

Wikipedia
Surrender of Japan

The surrender of Japan in August 1945 brought World War II to a close. On August 10, 1945, after the invasion of Manchuria by the Soviet Union and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan's leaders at the Imperial conference (gozenkaigi) decided, in principle, to accept the uncompromising terms the Allies had set down for ending the war in the Potsdam Declaration.

Wikipedia
History of Nuclear Weapons

The first nuclear weapons were created in the United States by an international team, including many displaced scientists from central Europe, with assistance from the United Kingdom and Canada during World War II as part of the top-secret Manhattan Project. Papers discovered in the UK's Royal Society show that French physicists Hans Halban and Lew Kowarski outlined the design of a fission reactor as well as initiating a chain reaction in 1941. Due to concerns over Hitlers Nazi regime, the papers were subsequently sealed and hidden at the request of James Chadwick.

While the first weapons were developed primarily out of fear that Nazi Germany would develop them first, they were eventually used against the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, after testing them in Alamogordo, New Mexico first, in August 1945.

The Soviet Union developed and tested their first nuclear weapon in 1949, based partially on information obtained from Soviet espionage in the United States.

In a nutshell the US has them because they were the first to invent them. Speaking analagously, when you have a gun and everyone else has a stick you have such a technological advantage that there's nothing the rest of the world can do to enforce its will on you.

Pokey Oats

Originally posted by Pokey Oats
Actually, in October of 2005 Iran called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

Actually, this was never said. Ahmadinejad was mis-quoted.

Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.
...

it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote – they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomenei, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.

His actual words were:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Or, in English:

The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.

Source

Clearly, Iran is no friend of Israel, but the "wiped off the map" claim appears to be nothing more than propaganda.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic


Actually, this was never said. Ahmadinejad was mis-quoted.


Clearly, Iran is no friend of Israel, but the "wiped off the map" claim appears to be nothing more than propaganda.

Clearly, you did not read your own post, the source never says that he didn't say it, It says that he was quoting Ayatollah Khomenei who said the phrase in question.

So why did he say it??? because he was in complete agreement with the statement, thats why quoted it to begin with. so to me, he might as well have said it himself.

Quoting someone to get your point across is as good as saying it yourself...even better in some cases, thats why we have quoting options on this board. (and you can quote me on that!)

The reason they came out after the fact and said he didn't say it, was because they knew he had stepped over the line with that statement and tried to backpeddle their way out by saying that he was just quoting someone else.

Originally posted by the_sentinal
Clearly, you did not read your own post, the source never says that he didn't say it,

Yes, it did. (Clearly you didn't read the source or even the quote OMS posted because it's right there...)

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic

Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.
...

The reason they came out after the fact and said he didn't say it, was because they knew he had stepped over the line with that statement and tried to backpeddle their way out by saying that he was just quoting someone else.

I don't suppose you have a source on this? Or is it just your opinion?

[edit on 12-6-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Yes, it did. (Clearly you didn't read the source or even the quote OMS posted because it's right there...)
[edit on 12-6-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

clearly I "DID" read the source.....for if you would look and consider this part......

Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism

It "CLEARLY" states that he quoted the phrase in question. just worded differently.

I don't suppose you have a source on this? Or is it just your opinion?

Isnt that reason for this board's exsistence to come and share "OPINIONS" on a variety of subjects. should we have to post a source for everything we think?? or are you just antagonizing??













[edit on 13-6-2007 by the_sentinal]

Just to futher shed some light on OMS's post, the external text posted clearly has a contradiction within the article, sure they state that Ahmedinjad did not say that he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" but he was mearly quoting Ayatollah Khomenei to support his own views of zionism.

So he did "say" the phrase in question but was simply quoting Ayatollah Khomenei, everybody seems to think that he didn't say it at all which is incorrect. he did say it, just in different wording. (it meant exactly the same thing)

So when someone reads this external text, the one's who want to believe that he didn't say it, will focus on the part which says he didn't.

[edit on 13-6-2007 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by Pokey Oats

In a nutshell the US has them because they were the first to invent them. Speaking analagously, when you have a gun and everyone else has a stick you have such a technological advantage that there's nothing the rest of the world can do to enforce its will on you.

Pokey Oats

Well, thanks for the history lesson (I didn't need it though !!)

Did it ever occur to you that other countries want a gun so that they can prevent the one that has one from enforcing its will on them?

the_sentinal, what you don't seem to be getting is the difference between calling for regime change (which is what the Khomenei quote says and what Ahmadinejad supports) and blowing a country off the map with bombs (which is what the American government and media incorrectly "translated" the phrase to mean). Hmmm... I wonder why they did that?

It amazes me how willing people are to rush to believe what this government claims after the clusterflub of the claim of Iraq's WMDs. I guess they've waited long enough to cry wolf again that the sheep easily believe there's really a wolf out there. I'm astounded that Lieberman would support this notion so easily after the events of the last 6 years. What an idiot!

Originally posted by the_sentinal
Isnt that reason for this board's exsistence to come and share "OPINIONS" on a variety of subjects.

Yes. Absolutely. I was simply asking to clarify. It seemed to me the way your opinion was stated that it might be something you knew for a fact. Like you may have some information I hadn't seen yet. That's ok, too, right?

Originally posted by the_sentinal
(it meant exactly the same thing)

Perhaps to you, "Israel should be wiped off the map" means exactly the same thing as "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time." But let me assure you that to many of us, they are clearly 2 different things.

If someone were to say, "The current US administration is corrupt and it's time for us to read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and take some action to reclaim our country again." That doesn't mean that their opinion is that the US should be blown off the map. Or perhaps to some of you, it does...

Originally posted by the_sentinal
the one's who want to believe that he didn't say it, will focus on the part which says he didn't.

Well, d'uh. If he didn't say it, yeah, I'm going to keep reminding people that HE DIDN'T SAY THAT!!!.

And clearly, the ones who want to believe that Ahmadinejad is an imminent threat to Israel and the US and all that is good; the war mongers who simply cannot wait to get into another rock-'em, sock-'em war with a new country; those who perhaps...

Originally posted by the_sentinal
...wish thay would just bomb them, and get it over with...

...are eager to rush in and believe some manipulative "translation" from this lying administration about so-called "evidence"; this administration, who has proven itself to attack on crappy "evidence" and kill tens of thousands of innocent people, are again, lying to the people to start a war. Yeah, let's do it again! Do it again!

:shk:

Well I kinda wish we still had WATS after that post

BTW the deceptive translations all seem to be coming from MEMRI, a "news" source that is essentially an Israeli propaganda organ.

Originally posted by xmotex
Well I kinda wish we still had WATS after that post

BTW the deceptive translations all seem to be coming from MEMRI, a "news" source that is essentially an Israeli propaganda organ.

Hear, hear!

Actually, when I read posts in sequence like the last two, I want a virtual rubber room for people to be thrown into to solve their differences. Then afterwards, we can continue to medicate them and move onto the next thread.

On a final note, I have needed that room myself on occasion...

I don't need a rubber room thanks anyway, we can just agree to disagree, it's obvious people will interpret things other people say, to mean different things. Thats what makes people different. if we all thought the same way it would be a very boring world.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
... Much of the world (places like South America, the ME, Central America, etc) hate the US because US leaders have supported or launched, direct or proxy warfare, designed to crush revolutionary change in those regions (be it democratic or communistic/socialistic change)....

People seem to overlook this point quite often. A whole lot of the US so called good deeds have been for it's own benefit, not that of the average person in the country receiving that help.

Originally posted by neformore
Did it ever occur to you that other countries want a gun so that they can prevent the one that has one from enforcing its will on them?

Sure.

But did it ever occur to you that other countries want a gun for no other reason but to shoot and kill someone that they just don't like or have been harboring a grudge against for a long time.

Pokey Oats

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by the_sentinal
I wonder if were being set up to accept the strike when it comes??

I don't need to be set up.

If Iran is not stopped, they will nuke Israel and the US and probably Europe and Great Britain, too.

It's going to happen. It's just a matter of when.

i dont think so

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Why do US leaders, instead of addressing the reasons of worldwide US hatred, simply turn to military strikes as a bandaid fix, creating more hatred for the US?

So that US leaders can then sell the US people "Protection" from the problems that they (the leaders) instigate.

We call it racketeering.
It's the way things work here in this New World Order.

Where have you been?

I am,

Sri Oracle