The Hard Balance Of Trying To Be Balanced: Hoaxes, Frauds, And Truth

Very nice for the administration to bring out the issue of hoaxes and "other" topics.

One of the things that makes this place great and a place for a person like me to take my time to be here very, very often is the ability of the administration and many outstanding members to be able to take "certain topics and hoaxes" and analyzed them, investigate them, theorized them and exposed them for what they are.

Is plenty of very free thinkers and investigating minds in this site.

But what I would hate to see ATS become is a place that will fall for politically correctness mode to satisfied the few out there that may fell offended by "certain topics and hoaxes".

Please do not allow ATS to become a apologetic and over the head to please everybody place.

That will take away the foundations that this site had able to Maintain for the years it has been in the INTERNET.

Remember that what it makes this place great is the diversity of opinions, intellect and thinking.

ATS !!!!!!RULES!!!!!

Well lets face the facts folks, they DO TV fakery, all the time, I mean look how easy it is to create a movie. The news plays around with footage all the time, must I go into examples.

And we are supposed to live in a free country with free speech, to ban things because people think they are hoaxes goes against the very grain of what freedom is supposed to be.

Many of the things that are controversial will spark division, I mean thats just how it is. I can easily ask you to ban anything that says the War on Terrorism is to free the arabs from tyranny, because obviously that is a complete hoax.

You see where Im going? If you are gonna ban things because people tell you to, well ban everything then, because there will always be people out there to support all sides of every argument, and lets face it, alot of these controversial hoaxes people cry so much about, actually have a stake in reality, and you must go see for yourself and youll understand.

I was sent this thread link, I can only assume in regards to my thread about my odd sighting. I have never in all of my time on ats ever tried to convince anyone of anything. I offer opinions and my personal experiences. and that is all.
If the admin of ATS do not like my thread and somehow think I have suddenly changed from respectable poster to a hoax master.. please delete the thread and ban me.

I havent been very active lately anyway I doubt it would seriously affect this community if you got rid of me.

Originally posted by NephraTari
I was sent this thread link,

I don't believe that it has to do with you personal thread, but occurs I can be mistaken.

I think it has to do with a very large thread on 9/11 and the person claiming to have been part of it. But I can be mistaken also.

Originally posted by NephraTari
I was sent this thread link, I can only assume in regards to my thread about my odd sighting.

every member got the u2u directing us to the thread. It should have said that in the u2u.

Originally posted by Crakeur

every member got the u2u directing us to the thread. It should have said that in the u2u.

thank you. I did not see the usual this is a mass u2u message on that one, but it must have been there.

Oh Boy!
How do you propose to edit a personal observation, or better yet, a witness, maybe two or three people removed, of an Earth rending event.
My example is the tale told me in 63, about the U.S. Bomber which hit the Empire State Bldg., in NYC. in 1945. I trusted my great uncle to tell the truth, and if the F.B.I. hadn't squashed the real story, then the security people in the Trade Towers on 9-11, would have known there was never an accidental airplane strike on a skyscraper, and would have evacuated both towers immediately, thus saving so many lives, in the second tower to be struck. Doesn't this make the F.B.I. culpable for a sizable fraction of all those deaths? That doomed bomber crew was ordered to follow a German radio beam, which on an overcast and cloudy day, brought it in right to the 83rd Floor, where the spies were transmitting from, out over the Atlantic. Didn't the 9-11 hijackers visit the trade towers earlier, and log the coords. into their GPS receivers. The more you really look at these two events, the more you get Deja Vu. From the two, WWII, elevator girls riding their boobytrapped cages all the way down, to the female stewardesses getting their throats cut, in the aircraft cabins, up in the air. Sometimes the truth really is mindbending, and way too much for the average Joe.

Due to member demand, the 9/11 forum is now under close staff scrutiny.

Edit: Correct link

[edit on 7/6/2007 by Umbrax]

Though an over abundance of Hoax's and Frauds can drive you to distraction some times i feel that it's not all bad. It's a real eye opener to see the members of this board put their collective heads together and get to the bottom of every hoax ive seen since being a member here.

If nothing else it does give the members the opportunity to operate together as a team and bring their individual skills forth, and more often than not i suspect, unravel the fraudsters.

In my view the odd hoax does us all the world of good, whether your involved in the investigating or merely sitting back and watching the pro's get stuck in. I bet theres more than a few who've left here feeling dudded after their attempts to fool ATS had been thwarted.

Glad to see that the Amigo's and staff are on top of it as usual.

mojo

Originally posted by AboveTopSecret.com
Due to member demand, the 9/11 forum is now under close staff scrutiny.

That link is to the Complaint forum, not the thread for the members to see.

[Mod Note: Got it, thanks ]

[edit on 7/6/2007 by Umbrax]

I think we just have to get used to it!!

The thing is the whole world is fake. All those gorgeous, beautiful men and women on the front of magazines with their perfect airbrushed bodies and shiny white teeth.

The slimy politicians with their well rehearsed soundbites. Even the majority of people here posting, like myself, with fake names and a virtual personality. Its all fake.

Generally hoaxers seem to be found out here but when is something really a hoax? Some of the more incredulous postings here I truly cannot accept that people believe what they are saying and must be hoaxing...or delusional.

Some of the postings in the paranormal forum scare me. I do sometimes wonder if someone will come to some harm because of some crazy idea they get from that forum. There seems to be an acceptance at ATS that posters are lucid, intelligent, none delusional and not suffering from mental ill health. I see some posters possibly needing psychological assessment being encouraged that they are normal and will come to no harm. I hope that my fears are not realised and ATS are not mentioned in a future litigation as a bereaved family try to fathom out why a loved one died.

I read that people cannot understand why people deliberately hoax...like in the UFO forum. I think for the same reason as a practical joke, attention and amusement.

ATS is good for smoking the hoaxers out but it is also a good source for both camps. Image creating hoaxers are getting an online course in graphics that would cost thousands. What works and what doesn't. I see parallels with drugs testing in athletics.

I am finding that the forums themselves seem to have a character and personality dictated by membership and staff. In the UFO forum debunking seems more acceptable than in the 911 forum. In the UFO forum you are merely a debunker, in the 911 forum you are a "Sheeple" incapable of individual thought.

I read posts here about Rumsfeld is a lizard, micro nukes and or holographic planes were responsible for 911 and that arrogant, impatient, selfish children are in fact gifted "Indigo Children". When you see stuff like that what is a hoax or two?

I find ATS at times an interesting read but in the real, none virtual world it is irrelevant. Anyone who comes here thinking they will change the world is as delusional as some of the paranormal posters imho.

I see ATS as a force for good, even if it just keeps the loonies off the streets

The thing is though, if the real deal were to appear would we know anyway? I mean, say regarding the UFO stuff, would we recognise the real deal if it sneaked up on us?

I consider the 911 Conspiracy a fairy tale perhaps a cult. Maybe even a dis-info campaign to cover up the inadequacies of the administration during those tragic events.
But people seem to fall into these categories, 1) disinterested, 2) On the fence, 3) Terrorists did it, 4) Terrorists did not do it. Now I know I have generalised things into four groups here but that was a real event and look at the difference of opinion.

The polarisation of CT or OT seems to be similar in most topics. The UFO forum have things that seem to me to be obvious hoaxes but people still discuss them as real deal...I shake my head in despair and say to myself "Have you read any of the previous posts?" The C2C Drone is a classic example...there is even a thread discussing and deciphering the writing that was on the fake drone!!! That's less useful than a course in Klingon

In fact I see things like the C2C Drone as a problem. To me and others it is an obvious fake but as it was not originated by the OP, ATS wont stamp HOAX over it. Not even an advisory warning. If this were my first visit to the site I would look at the title and read half the thread and be really peeved that I wasted my time looking at a potential hoax.

Perhaps we could have a "Hoax-ometer" on the thread title, with members flagging as appropriate. At least if you had one member one vote, then we could see as members what the average delusion rating of ATS was in any particular forum Plus we could make a more efficient use of our time by not wasting it reading ludicrous threads. There again this is a place of discussion...unless you hit the ignore button...is that fair and free discussion? I digress...

To close we are fake personalities, in a fake virtual world...fake is reality. We are stuck with it...Does anything really exist outside our little minds??

And have you considered how many things you're told every day, in the real world, that is fake? Delusion is the norm.

We tell our children fairy tales, we tell our spouse fibs, we tell our coworkers exaggerations. There's a lot of the world that is made up as we go along.

Life is just an illusion that we all agree to.

Originally posted by NGC2736
we tell our spouse fibs,

And that right there will get you in a whole heap o' trouble, never mind posting a hoax on an anonymous internet site!!

mojo, I only told her those jeans didn't make her butt look big. Think how it would have went with complete honesty!

marg6043 I have to agree with much of what Marg had to say in her post, especially the following.

But what I would hate to see ATS become is a place that will fall for politically correctness mode to satisfied the few out there that may fell offended by "certain topics and hoaxes".

mojo4sale following observations seem to me what makes ATS interesting to so many people.

Though an over abundance of Hoax's and Frauds can drive you to distraction some times i feel that it's not all bad. It's a real eye opener to see the members of this board put their collective heads together and get to the bottom of every hoax ive seen since being a member here.

If nothing else it does give the members the opportunity to operate together as a team and bring their individual skills forth, and more often than not i suspect, unravel the fraudsters.

I do agree that a civil debate is necessary. “Yes, it is.” “No, it isn’t”. is boring and no one would spend much time on such a thread.

The thread about the TV fake was interesting to me, because of the stated premise and then members posting as to the reasons the OP was a fake.

I personally believe that the Amigo's have done thier share for the forums and the Mod's and Admins have done thier fare share as well.
I have been here for a time now and , when I first joined the Ats family, it did seem too be a bit more 'Structurally' sincere when it came too pointing out a 'Known' hoax or down right 'Disinfo.' propogation statement.
I have found myself getting a bit emotional and intollerant of a few topics of the threads, and I found that by just ignoring or bypassing those topics allow me to get my bearing's of what I do know, and what I truly don't Know of these topics of discussion's.
I feel the best bet for the ATS overseer's would probably be too put into action what has been set in motion for the forum's from the begining, and which by coincidence, was "Agreed" to by signing up for the ATS forums and the like.
Though 'Banning' me seem harsh, it would definately get the attention of the 'Discruntle' poster's too watch thier P&Q's for the most part.

Seriously though, "If someone is having a personal problem with belief or acceptance of a thread? "Avoid it!!-)"

IMHO

Thanks for the post of your (ATS Admin) concern. I hope it attracts the attention it deserves with a quick and 'Positive' response.

Allred

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Unfortunately, all too often, the purveyors of the theories causing the most schismatic discussion also tend to push the boundaries of our Terms & Conditions, often to the breaking point. This phenomenon of combined churlishness and sensational theories seems to occur most often in the 9/11 topics, perhaps because of the high incidence of "angry activists" who have adopted 9/11 conspiracies. The results are predictable, abusive contributors are banned and improperly assume we're censoring their ideas.

Some genuinely may believe this, but i'd guess at least as many just say it, and in fact never believed their own "theories" to begin with. Churlishness... I'll have to remember that one. Thank you SO. It's true and rather baffling that the most out there theories all too oftmen come wrapped in mental barbed wire as well.

This goes beyond anonymous drive-by members. Even some people with a solid place here are guilty of this behavior, tho I won't name names.

I hope some are taking heed.

Originally posted by iCEdTenG
Good job, maybe a button that reads HOAX UNSURE or REAL can be put on posts? or maybe applied to some posts so that members can vote and a percentage is displayed next to the thread on how people feel about the thread.

I agree with this one. Theres a button for everything else why not a member perception meter for hoaxes

Although my own attitudes and reactions to threads i deem to be hoaxes is often virrulent - bordering on rabid [ sometimes to the point that the long suffering mods have to rein me in ]

i would oppose such a system of tagging " hoax " based on votes cast

why ?

because reality is not a democracy , it does not care who [ if anyone ] believes a given principle to be " true " or " false " nor is it accountable to a concsus opinion

" denying ignorance " should be a personal thing

do not accept a statement as fact [ or hoax ] - just because 10 or 100 ATS members tell you it is true [ or false ]

for a graphic example , consider the nature and existance of " god "

over 1 billion adherents , seperatly represnting THREE seperate largley mutually exclusive faith systems [ christianity , islam , hunduism ] will sincerely tell you that thier belief structure and image of the nature of god head is the correct one

who is right ?

please do not address this question here - it is only an example of the folly af appeals to popularity OR the bandwagon fallacy

ATS - as i perceive it encourages personal research and understanding - NOT following the crowd because " they " tell you what to believe or its " cool "

at the risk using a sterotype - that course of thought is for sheep , not ATS members

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

-snip-

I second this. Personally, I'm occasionally guilty of 'judging the book by its cover' when approaching threads. I read the title, check out the author's points and then read. Of course this doesn't technically affect the validity of the author, but nevertheless, it's difficult NOT to fixedly monitor one's points when reading a post.

The star system has added another 'clip of ammo' to the opinionated and can easily be abused. Those undeserving of a 1* rating will more than likely get it if a 'biased-opinion-on-legs' walks in. The same thing is bound to happen with hoax tags.