Preemption Needed to Stop Iran, Former War Pilot Says

That may well be why the west is worried so much. Dont they have rights aswell though?

BTW, in case those who claim "The Iranian regime is sane and would not use nuclear weapons against Israel" here is a little more info for your perusal...

Iranian fatwa approves use of nuclear weapons
By Colin Freeman and Philip Sherwell in Washington
Last Updated: 12:12am GMT 19/02/2006

Iran's hardline spiritual leaders have issued an unprecedented new fatwa, or holy order, sanctioning the use of atomic weapons against its enemies.

In yet another sign of Teheran's stiffening resolve on the nuclear issue, influential Muslim clerics have for the first time questioned the theocracy's traditional stance that Sharia law forbade the use of nuclear weapons.

One senior mullah has now said it is "only natural" to have nuclear bombs as a "countermeasure" against other nuclear powers, thought to be a reference to America and Israel.

The pronouncement is particularly worrying because it has come from Mohsen Gharavian, a disciple of the ultra-conservative Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi, who is widely regarded as the cleric closest to Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2006/02/19/wiran19.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/19/ixnewstop.html

At first the claim from the Iranian officials was "oh no, we will never build nuclear weapons...it is all for peaceful purposes...i asure you..."

Even after knowijng that for 20 fricken years the Iranian regime had been working in a nuclear weapons program and have built underground bunkers to keep their nuclear programs secret, and we still don't get to see if they have stopped their nuclear weapons program which they started over 20 years ago...

Iran Develops Nuclear Technologies in Secret for 18 Years
A report issued by the International Atomic Energy Agency describes technological advances and a policy of concealment.

On November 10, 2003, the International Atomic Energy Agency issued a 30-page confidential report on Iran's nuclear activities. The report, which the agency sent to its board of governors and to 20 governments, reveals that for the past 18 years Iran has secretly developed technologies for producing weapon-usable highly enriched uranium and plutonium. During that time, the report says, Iran violated its Nonproliferation Treaty obligations and falsified declarations to the agency regarding safeguards required under the treaty.

www.nrdc.org...

But I guess some still think the Iranian regime is sane, and they will never use nuclear weapons against Israel.....

Originally posted by Id123
That may well be why the west is worried so much. Dont they have rights aswell though?

The right to destroy another nation because they hate them?....

No...they don't have any rights to have a nuclear weapon after all the threats and lies about their nuclear weapons programs they have been giving for over 20 years.

Israel is not that big of a country, the Islamic radicals don't care much about their own people since they are spread all over the Middle East.

[edit on 7-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Isreal on my scope of things is very small but it has a mighty sword!

Originally posted by Muaddib
This is a perfect example of the ignorance on the events that have been happening in the Middle East since the 7th century AD.

Islamic extremism has existed for over a millenium before the U.S., Palestine, or Israel existed as nations... and actually Palestine is no nation, because they didn't accept to become a nation if Israel was also seen as a nation.

Do yourself a favour and read on the history of the wars and battles which have been waged as "jihads" since the 7th century and are still ongoing today...

I dont need to read about your paranoid ancient religious wars..if I did I would be more worried about a race of people that supposedly spoke to their God , were told they could have the land and killed every last Canaanite and then continue with a new race of people 3000 years later spewing the same tripe about God promising it to them. Both wackos. You are worried about being a dhimmi to Islam but not worried about your already being a dhimmi to Israel on a much higher level.

You can keep on dreaming that all this stuff happening isn't connected to whats taking place over a little piece of land and that its Muslims hating our freedoms and just hating the jews for the heck of it and I'll take reality that we are all being mislead just so a minority of people can continue taking advantage of another minority of people who happen to be a part of a majority religion and they are becoming irate that we are just plain not listening to them to stop the killings and the land theft. Dream on dreamweaver. Dont forget to wear your cloak of Islamic invisibility today...you never know when the evil ones might be out to try and dhimmitize you and force you to convert to Islam.

I might not be as knowledgeable as many of the other people here in this forum, but I have to throw in my 2 cents (really a question). Is Israel capable of launching a nuke at Iran's nuclear sites or are their missile distance to short - range?

Originally posted by Muaddib

Except for the fact that Iran has called for the destruction of Israel almost every week for years now.

I still can't believe there are people who want to back a radical Islamic country after all the threats, suicide bombing campaigns and attacks such radical countries have made...

Since of course its convenient for you to disbelieve me as well as others...maybe coming from Zionists might help you a little.

New York - The Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, stated in a speech on Sunday that last summer’s Lebanon war showed “for the first time hegemony of the occupier regime ( Israel) collapsed and that pushed the button counting the days until the destruction of Zionist regime.” Ahmadinejad’s comments, which were broadcast to the Iranian nation in a speech marking the 18th anniversary of the death of its Islamist founder, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, also included this threat: “I warn the Zionist regime and its protectors, if you want to launch a new war against the Lebanese people, this time the people’s ocean of anger will become stormy and will carry away your decayed roots from this region ... The countdown to this regime’s destruction started through the hands of Hizballah’s children ... We will witness the destruction of this regime in the near future thanks to the endeavors of all Palestinian and Lebanese fighters” ( Sydney Morning Herald , June 4).

Zionist Organization of America

I dont see why after over 60 years of razing houses, kidnappings, arrests without charges, political assasinations, civilian assasination, scientific assasination, torture, spying, sabotage, over flights both manned and unmanned over borders, wanton disregard for UN general resolutions by the dozens, destruction of civilian infrastructure and tourism, apartheid , racism, land grabbing, unfair distribution and seizure of resources, deliberate tampering & poisoning of resources, nuclear blackmail and a myriad of other things that you would even entertain the idea that these people should be jubilant or acccepting of such things. you should be thinking more along the lines of they are tired of complaining to the west and not getting anything done and they are taking matters into their own hands. I think they came up with the idea of the War On terror before we did. If all of the above do not consititute terror in your eyes then you need glasses. If anyone has been doing any destroying over the years..I believe you need to read over that list again.

Israel, while never officially acknowledging that it possesses nuclear weapons, is estimated to have had nuclear bombs sense the late 1960's. This means that during the 6 Day War, the Yom Kippur War, as well as other engagments sense the 60's, Israel has had the option to use nuclear weapons, and has chosen not to do so. This despite the fact that some of those wars weren't going well at certain points, such as the start of the Yom Kippur War. I think this shows that Israel is responsible enough to possess nuclear weapons and they aren't going to use them.

As for Iran, from what I understand, most of the people there are fairly moderate, I understand it to be one of the more progressive Islamic countries. But as far as the government of Iran goes, its deffenetly not a reliable or sane government. As has been pointed out, they've called for the destruction of another country, and suggested using nuclear weapons to do it. Any country that says things like this should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons. They are an awesome power, and not something people should go around saying "oh, these people have it, why not these people? fair is fair!" Having grown up in Japan, I'm weary of any country that might ever use any nuclear option. But to be fair, I'm not saying no one in the Middle East should have a Nuclear capability other than Israel! If a moderate country that wouldn't use them wanted to, I wouldn't care if they were Arab, Muslim, or anything else, let them. Hopefully they would develop a nuclear program for energy and peace though, and not be focused more on the weapons.

Another thing to keep in mind, it's not just Israel and America saying Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons, and going out trying to police them. The UN Security Council has passed a resolution in 2006 condemning Iran's nuclear ambitions, and has passed sanctions against Iran. Also, Iran has signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which means it agreed not to develop nuclear weapons. So when any country says Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons, their just holding Iran to live up to the promise it made when it signed the NPT.

Originally posted by Karl7772000
I might not be as knowledgeable as many of the other people here in this forum, but I have to throw in my 2 cents (really a question). Is Israel capable of launching a nuke at Iran's nuclear sites or are their missile distance to short - range?

I may get a warning on this short answer but....... Submarines

I may get a warning on this short answer but....... Submarines

AHHHHHHHH ok nukes launched from subs are the israeli's nuclear delivers system. I didnt even think of that >.<

i guess the Palestinians have not their share of assassinations, suicide bombings and the sums of attrocities which have happened there for "millenia"...

Even after the Palestinians decided not to accept the UN partition resolution, and the others after the very next day they set up to wage a war in which several Arab countries attaked Israel...

And, of course instead of showing facts you make one sided claims without showing what the Palestinians have been doing.

BTW, not all Palestinian Arabs agree with the radicals, just as not all Israelites agree with the rest of the population. Giving examples of a few Israelites groups is no way to prove your point. There are extremists in both sides.

Originally posted by Muaddib


BTW, not all Palestinian Arabs agree with the radicals, just as not all Israelites agree with the rest of the population. Giving examples of a few Israelites groups is no way to prove your point. There are extremists in both sides.

If there are on both sides then why do we take preference and sanction one and not both? As for your assertion that I only post one side..NO. We already know exactly what the Pals do and they are being punished for it and have been punished for it. If there are extremists on both sides as well as armies within armies on both sides...why do we sanction palestine, yet give Israel over 3Billion in financial aide, 3 billion in Military aide and at last count over 3billion in cost for guaranteed 1 year of Oil reserves?

If as you say both are guilty, then both should be treated equally...or did you mean that Palestine was just slightly more guiltier? or perhaps an Israeli life was worth slightly more on the human life exchange then a Palestinian life?

Get it over with, Everyone just needs to realize how much they have Screwed all over and fire all the nukes at once.

DUMB idiots resolve matters with force, So this stuff seems to never end, just get it over with and let the people who want to live SURVIVE the Aftermath....


This planet has too much bloodshed and needs to come to a end.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
..........
If as you say both are guilty, then both should be treated equally...or did you mean that Palestine was just slightly more guiltier? or perhaps an Israeli life was worth slightly more on the human life exchange then a Palestinian life?

.....The Israelis do not come out every week and proclaim "the destruction of Palestinians is at hand".... The Isralis do not send their children and confused youths with bombs strapped around their waist to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible...

Only madmen/madwomen send their small children with bombs strapped around their chest or waist to kill Israeli civilians...

But you want to trust them with nuclear weapons.... Israel has shown that they are more sensible, as they haven't used the nuclear weapons, technology and knowhow which France sold them...

[edit on 7-6-2007 by Muaddib]

Isreal shouldnt take that crap from Iran, the sooner they send the airstrikes the better, no way in hell i would trust that spanner Ahmadinejad
with nuclear weapons

To thepieman, Well even if your answers short it correct. Submarines def going to have the range! Dolphin class I belive, Nuclear capable types

Originally posted by Id123
To thepieman, Well even if your answers short it correct. Submarines def going to have the range! Dolphin class I belive, Nuclear capable types

Also not likely that US ships in the Gulf would report the territorial invasion and could possibly provide a cover for them since its doubtful that Iranian ships would attempt to go near them.

Another way for Israelis to invade or cross borders illegally is giving them submarines at a discount that they can modify to be nuke capable courtesy of the German government.

I don't know what the U.S. would or would not do if Israel attempted to get a ship in close enough to Iran to make an attack. But just so the information being tossed about here is not just hear say and personal opinions listed below is some information about Israel's submarine fleet.

Dolphin Class - Type 800 coastal submarines
INS Dolphin (1999)
INS Leviathan (1999)
INS Tekumah (Revival, 2000)
On August 25, 2006, Israel signed a deal with Germany to purchase two nuclear-capable Dolphin class submarines, a deal valued at $1.3 billion, with Germany financing one-third of the total cost. [1]

wiki

Originally posted by demorior
Israel, while never officially acknowledging that it possesses nuclear weapons, is estimated to have had nuclear bombs sense the late 1960's. This means that during the 6 Day War, the Yom Kippur War, as well as other engagments sense the 60's, Israel has had the option to use nuclear weapons, and has chosen not to do so. This despite the fact that some of those wars weren't going well at certain points, such as the start of the Yom Kippur War. I think this shows that Israel is responsible enough to possess nuclear weapons and they aren't going to use them.

During first Gulf war they had to be bribed not to launch their nukes which was why we ran and gave them the patriots so quickly. If they had launched the nukes we would have lost a majority of the arabs that were working in the coalition. As they have said before. Arabs may have the Oil but Israel holds the matches. Veiled threats such as these are not to be taken lightly. As you said Iran is part of the NPT, whereas Israel has yet to even allow inspections of any kind. JFK was the only President to even think of the idea of Israel having nukes was wrong. Mordecai Venunu the man who exposed the goings on at the Dimona reactor has also said we do not know what future head of the Israeli state could be irresponsible enough to use nuclear weapons as well as to speak out that an accident at the Dimona plant could kill millions of people if an earthquake or other unforseen accident were to occur. Since Israel is such a small place the damage could spread into Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and even Egypt.

Do you know how safe, sound and secure Dimona is to promise that nothing like Chernobyl can happen as well since you also seem to know the mindset of any future government of Israel that may come in, even if it ends up being the likes of Baruch Goldstein type of Israeli?

Someone else said France sold them the technology, yes but under what pretenses. If the deal was legitimate then why were documents for Heavy Water for the plant falsified in order to be delivered. This too falls under the NPT treaty even though Israel is not a consignor since the heavy water came from an NPT country.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
This too falls under the NPT treaty even though Israel is not a consignor since the heavy water came from an NPT country.

How do you know the heavy watter came from a NPT country? Or any other country in particuler?