Who told Mayor Giuliani WTC2 was going to collapse?

In an ABC News broadcast, Giuliani said:

“I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barkley Street, which was right there with the Police Commissioner, the Fire Commissioner, the Head of Emergency Management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for 10, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit and got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us.”

The WMV file of this important statement can be downloaded from

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

But how was it known or even suspected that the World Trade Center was going to collapse? There was no factual or historical basis for this prediction. When was Giuliani warned? Why were only a select few people warned? How many lives would have been saved if everyone had received this warning? Why were firefighters in the impact zone of WTC 2 unaware that the building was going to collapse? They should have been the ones reporting this information, instead they reported only isolated fires immediately before the building's collapse.

Well, now we DO know who was, apparently, SO better informed than firefighters at the scene that he was able to give warning to Giuliani that WTC 2 was about to collapse. It was Emergency Management Service Division Chief John Peruggia:

www.cooperativeresearch.org... les=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

"...Again, times are a little fuzzy initially for me. A few minutes later, John came to me and said you need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following message: that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse. I said okay. I went down Vesey Street towards West.

Q. You were by yourself?

A. I was by myself, me and my helmet and my radio. I got to the corner of Vesey and West. I found some EMS vehicles. I think I saw Chief Gombo there. I'm not really sure. I mentioned to the EMS people there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you need to get away from here, the building might collapse, we need to leave this spot. As I was walking towards the Fire command post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's the boss? I have to give him a message. He said, well, what's the message? I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out.

"...it's coming over our radio, get out of the area, the second tower's coming down."

"They're saying the second tower is coming...?"

"Yes, it's about to collapse."

He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said, hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are going to collapse. His reply was who the # told you that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci, Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down.

It seems logical that the Office of Emergency Management would warn their boss of the impending collapses, so it appears this is how Mayor Giuliani received warning of the collapses. But how could John Peruggia know this with enough certainty to tell Zarillo to warn Chief Ganci, when fire fighters who had got to the 78th floor of WCT 2 (the area of impact with the plane) radioed to the ground that there was only isolated pockets of fire - no 800 degree raging infernos and no sign of pillars or ceilings beginning to give way! Who told John Peruggia that the buildings either would or might collapse? According to the Center for Cooperative Research:

"In the lobby of Building 7 of the WTC, EMS Division Chief John Peruggia is in discussion with Fire Department Captain Richard Rotanz and a representative from the Department of Buildings. As Peruggia later describes, “it was brought to my attention, it was believed that the structural damage that was suffered to the [twin] towers was quite significant and they were very confident that the building's stability was compromised and they felt that the north tower was in danger of a near imminent collapse.” Peruggia grabs EMT Richard Zarrillo, and tells him to pass on the message, “that the buildings have been compromised, we need to evacuate, they're going to collapse.” Zarrillo heads out to the fire command post, situated in front of 3 World Financial, the American Express Building, where he relays this message to several senior firefighters. Seconds later, they hear the noise of the South Tower as it collapses."

www.cooperativeresearch.org... les=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

So Peruggia in effect said that "they" (referring to Fire Department Captain Richard Rotanz and a Department of Buildings representative) believed there was a danger that the South Tower was about to collapse and that he merely passed on their warning to Chief Ganci. But how could Rotanz himself be so sure, when none of his men at the scene suspected this? (Let us ignore the possibility that the anonymous representative from the Department of Buildings seriously influenced the decision to warn Chief Ganci. Although it cannot be ruled out, it is more plausible that it was the Fire Department Captain's professional opinion that would have counted here). One could understand such a warning being issued if it had come AFTER the South Tower fell. But Mayor Giuliani and fire chiefs were told before the FIRST building collapsed so unexpectedly. Does this almost psychic presentiment by Rotanz sound credible to you?

[edit on 13-5-2007 by micpsi]

Read the further statement by Peruggia, referring to Zarillo:

"I told him: "You see Chief Ganci and Chief Ganci only. Provide him with the information that the building integrity is severely compromised and they believe the building is in danger of imminent collapse." So, he left off in that direction.

Q. They felt that just the one building or both of them?
A. The information we got at that time was that they felt both buildings were significantly damaged, but they felt that the north tower, which was the first one to be struck, was going to be in imminent danger of collapse. Looking up at it, you could see that, you could see through the smoke or whatever, that there was significant structural damage to the exterior of the building. Very noticeable. Now you know, again, this is not a scene where the thought of both buildings collapsing ever entered into my mind."

No, I bet it didn't! And it is utterly unbelievable, too, that it could have entered the mind of Captain Rotanz as a serious thought! How could the degree of structural damage to either tower inferred from an external inspection ever have made him come to the conclusion that the tower was about to collapse? Utterly unbelievable! He must have been the only professional fire fighter there who thought that it could happen. In fact, it was so incredible that Chief Ganci had to ask Zarillo who had told him that! If Richard Rotanz REALLY did hold that opinion - one unwarranted by the evidence available to him, and if he DID express it to Peruggia (we only have Peruggia's word for that), he was making an extraordinarily unprofessional judgement unshared by his colleagues. It is just as hard to believe that as it is to accept that the buildings fell because of fire and structural damage caused by the impact of planes.

Are we therefore asked to believe that someone with all the experience of a Fire Captain, one who had presumably during his career fought fires in buildings far more fierce than those in the two towers, had judged that fire and structural damage to about TWO floors of a 110-storey building had so weakened it that he thought it was about to come down?! Had the computer-like brain of Richard Rotanz worked out in a few hours what was likely to happen, when it took months of official investigation by engineers in NIST to come up with a far-fetched reason for the collapse?! Can you really believe that? I cannot. Either this opinion was never actually expressed in the conversation Peruggia had with Rotanz or else Rotanz was deliberately overestimating the seriousness of the situation for some dark reason. (Perish the thought, of course, that he knew the buildings were going to be demolished and had to come up with a half-baked reason to order withdrawal of his men!). Even his own colleagues had difficulty in believing Peruggia's message conveyed to them by Zarillo ("who the f-k told you that?", Chief Ganci asked). Was Rotanz really so prescient or clever, or did he just get lucky in calling it right, when hundreds of fire fighting professionals at the scene never suspected the towers would collapse? I doubt it.

The funny part is that the Port autority wesite was updated realtime with the explanation of why the WTC felt...Did you know it?
BBC had given an advance notice of the WTC falling.
They also were referencing to the Port autority website on why the towers felt.

Originally posted by piacenza
The funny part is that the Port autority wesite was updated realtime with the explanation of why the WTC felt...Did you know it?
BBC had given an advance notice of the WTC falling.
They also were referencing to the Port autority website on why the towers felt.

The BBC gave an advance notice of WTC7 collapsing, not WTC2 falling. I assume that is what you meant. I can well believe that the Port Authority website got updated suspiciously quickly. New York's branch of OEM seems to have been in on the plot in order to have tipped off Giuliani. I don't believe for a minute that the warning came from Captain Rotanz.

no I am refering to WTC1 or WTC2 don't remember.
The news was given by the BBC early in the morning.
The Website of the port authority had the information on it refering to BBC.
There was a thread I made a while back that went unnotice.

Originally posted by piacenza
no I am refering to WTC1 or WTC2 don't remember.
The news was given by the BBC early in the morning.
The Website of the port authority had the information on it refering to BBC.
There was a thread I made a while back that went unnotice.

I disagree with your claim that the two BBC journalists said the WTC2 fell before it did. That is a misrepresentation. All they said was that some material was falling off the building - nothing about complete collapse. That hardly amounts to prescience. See my complete reply in your new thread.

According to the NIST reports, there were helicopter pilots from NYPD in the air around the top of the towers, who indicated that the top of WTC 1 was leaning more and more around 10 o'clock.
But how these same pilots were aware of the imminent collapse of WTC 2 (the first collapse) I forgot.
I have written extensively about it here at ATS, but the ATS search function is crappy.
If their radios were fed directly into OEM streams, I do not know anymore.
It's all in the NIST reports, use their PDF-search function with "helicopter" and "OEM".