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'Hell' in Solidarity Theology (Part 2)

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posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:22 PM
In the first installment of this article, I proposed a problem and several assumptions that have contributed to the development of the problem.

The problem is the false image of God that stems from the traditional teaching about Hell.

The assumptions are defects in one or a combination of the following: interpreting a symbol literally; failing to understand and apply the concept of two messiahs; and, mistranslations.

Bearing in mind these assumptions, I vowed to define in Part II what is meant by the mystical “lake of fire” and prove that the traditional teaching of Hell is a fallacy.


There is no human way to estimate the number of souls who have turned away from living an active faith because they could not reconcile the severe teaching of Hell with the love of God and His Son, Jesus Christ. They have been taught the awful consequence of being cast into the “lake of fire”.

Paul claimed that perfect love casts out fear, yet the fear of Hell has tormented people who are conscientious and would otherwise believe in God.

The teaching of Hell is primarily rooted in references to the “lake of fire”, a phrase which is exclusively found in the Book of Revelation in the following passages.



20:13-15 and 21:8.

There is a similar description in Rev. 14:10-11. Although worth noting, it does not mention the “lake of fire”.

The teaching concerning the “lake of fire” does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in Revelation. This by itself is significant. A cardinal doctrine is not generally built on isolated and obscure references.

We must examine these passages closely, bearing in mind the three assumption I claim have warped their authentic meaning.


“And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelation 19:20).

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:13-15).

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).

The reader will notice a pattern, the repetitive use of certain terms and themes:




Lake of fire


Period of duration

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:23 PM
We will examine each in their bearing upon these passages and also upon the bigger question of the traditional Hell.

I will start with “brimstone”.


The biblical word for “brimstone” is theion.

According to Strong’s Concordance, theion means, “1) brimstone; divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease.”

In the interest of fairness, “But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone [theion] from heaven, and destroyed [them] all” (Luke 17:29).

The root word of theion is theios.

According to Strong’s Concordance, theios is “1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks; 2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity a) of Christ; b) Holy Spirit; or c) the Father”.

Theios is used in the following passages:

“Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead [theios] is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device” (Acts 17:29).

“According as his divine [theios] power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine [theios] nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust” (2 Peter 1:3, 4).

Fire is a well-established biblical symbol of the presence, power, and work of God. Following are some examples of this:

“And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed” (Exodus 3:2).

“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 2:1-4).

“But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap” (Malachi 3:2).

“And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God” (Zechariah 13:9).

“For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, . . . Our God [is] a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:6, 29; Deuteronomy 4:24).

It seems peculiar to equate God with Hell. Hell, as traditionally taught, is a place of banishment from the presence of God. What is the “divine presence” doing in Hell?

Thayer’s Lexicon explains that Greeks used the word theios in regard to divinity or deity as denoted by a display of divine nature, power, providence, in general, without reference to any individual deity. Hence, the Apostle John seems to suggest that the presence of God found in the “lake of fire” is a display of divine nature, power, and providence rather than the person of God Himself.

This display of divine nature, power, providence is not to be found in a divine person on earth, but rather in the anointing of the messiah, who is chosen and empowered by God to perform the supernatural work of redeeming national Israel. I believe that this person is the Antichrist Messiah, otherwise known as the Beast.

The Antichrist Messiah is not God. But he is endowed with super-human powers that reside solely within him. Like Jesus Christ, the Antichrist Messiah is a unique Son of God, who is beyond human ability to replicate.

God is present in “Hell” in the person of the “Beast”.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:25 PM

In modern usage, the term “beast” carries a negative connotation. However, as used in the Bible, the word is morally neutral, signifying nothing more or less than an empire and its leader.

Like the beasts in the Book of Daniel, the “Beast” in Revelation is the territorial domain of the Antichrist as well as the Antichrist him- or herself.

The Beast and the Pseudo-Prophet are cast into the “lake of fire” for a deliberate purpose, not punishment and containment as usually taught. An analysis of the language does not support this. I have shown this in relation to the word “brimstone”. See also my comments on the terms “cast” and “lake of fire”.

I will offer further proofs in support of the Beast’s identity as the Antichrist in my study of chapters 12 and 13 of Revelation.

The territorial domain of the “Beast” is the “lake of fire”.


“Lake of fire” is an oxymoron. An oxymoron is “a rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.”

The revelator chose the word “lake” for a deliberate purpose. A lake is a body of water. The telling thing about “lake of fire” is that water and fire do not mix! Water extinguishes fire. The Apostle John wants us to understand that this is not a place of punishment.

“Water and fire” suggest baptism with the Holy Ghost. In reference to the messiah, John the Baptist said, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire” (Matthew 3:11).

Honest people have erred in interpreting the symbol literally. I discussed this pitfall in “Debunking the Doctrine of 'Hell' (Part I)” (July 2006). A pitfall is “an unapparent source of trouble or danger; a hidden hazard; a concealed hole in the ground that serves as a trap. The trap in the traditional doctrine of Hell is the mischaracterization of God. God is love. He delights to save, not to destroy. Countless people have turned away from living a life of active faith because they were told that Hell is the flipside of Salvation. They were threatened with Hell for rejecting the offer of Paradise or because they didn’t measure up to an impossible standard. This was and remains a pitfall; a mischaracterization of God.

I have suggested that the authentic biblical “Hell”, the “lake of fire”, is actually the territorial domain of the Beast. It is the desert-like area to the east of Israel in present-day Iraq. In part, it is called the “lake of fire” because of the mirage effect common to the desert.

A mirage is defined as “an optical phenomenon that creates the illusion of water, often with inverted reflections of distant objects, and results from distortion of light by alternate layers of hot and cool air.”

A mirage is an illusion. Like a mirage, the traditional teaching regarding Hell is a destructive illusion.

The “lake of fire” is the place into which is cast the Beast and the Pseudo-Prophet. The verb “cast” provides important clues about the meaning and location of the “lake of fire”.


There is a concept advocated by Jesus Christ that I call “The Kingdom Net”. Jesus explained this concept in one of His parables. The time is the end of the world. He said, “The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth’ (Matthew 13:47-50).

“The Kingdom Net” is cast into the “lake of fire”. The time is also the end of the world.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:26 PM
The biblical word for “cast” is ballo, which means “to throw or let go of a thing without caring where it falls; a) to scatter, to throw, cast into; b) to give over to one's care uncertain about the result.”

This word “cast” occurs 125 times in the New Testament, 28 of these in the Book of Revelation. The various meanings of “cast” have to be determined by their context. For example, as used in Luke 4:9, ballo appears to mean “presumption”: “And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast [ballo] thyself down from hence”.

In Luke 12:49-53, ballo appears to mean “a baptism of suffering”: “I am come to send [ballo] fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law”. In Revelation 2:24, ballo refers to “a burden”.

In John 19:24, ballo appears to mean “chance, such that it is overridden by providence in fulfillment of prophecy”: “They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast [ballo] lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did”.

In Acts 16:24, ballo appears to mean “imprisonment”: “Who, having received such a charge, thrust [ballo] them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks”. This is a frequent usage in the New Testament, suggesting delimitation, such as to territorial boundaries.

In Revelation 2:14, ballo appears to mean “a great test”: “But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast [ballo] a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication”.

In Matthew 17:27, ballo appears to mean “money”: “Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast [ballo] an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee”. This again is a frequent usage in the New Testament, suggesting wealth.

In Mark 9:45, 47, ballo explicitly refers to “Hell”: “And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast [ballo] into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: . . . And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast [ballo] into hell fire”.

Lastly, ballo appears to prefigure the second messiah’s appearance “from the east”. In Acts 27:14, we read, “But not long after there arose [ballo] against it a tempestuous wind, called Euroclydon”. Eurokludon is "a violent agitation". It literally means, “1) south east wind raising mighty waves; or 2) a wind causing broad waves.” According to Thayer’s Lexicon, Euros (the east wind), the root of Eurokludon, suggests “uninterrupted succession”.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:27 PM
Importantly, the Apostle John uses the term ballo in both the Book of Revelation and in his Gospel. In the following gospel passage, I think there are clues bearing upon our interpretation of the “lake of fire” in Revelation:


[1] After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
[2] There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
[3] Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
[4] But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
[5] Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
[6] And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
[7] Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
[8] And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
[9] As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
[10] Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
[11] Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, and hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.

There are several notable things in this passage that bear directly on our subject. I refer to the overlap consistent with the themes addressed throughout my other articles. These points of convergence have circumstantial, evidentiary value.

A number of these several notables relate to the word “Tiberias”.


See my article “October 14 and the Jewish Sanhedrin” (June 2006).

It is likely that the statements made by Jesus Christ to Nicodemus in John 3 prefigure the rebirth of national Israel and its Sanhedrin. It is in this story that we find one of the most famous verses in the Bible: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

Notice the exchange between Nicodemus and Jesus over the issue of anointing. Both Jesus and Nicodemus were well aware that only the Sanhedrin has the statutory authority to restore the Davidic monarchy and anoint the King of the Jews, the Messiah. Jesus uses the figures of water and spirit (i.e., fire) to signifying the heavenly anointing (verse 5).

Jesus needed anointed to publicly validate His calling. According to Matthew, “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:13-17).

Like Nicodemus, Joseph is thought to have been a member of the Sanhedrin, based upon the description of him in Mark 15:43, “Joseph of Arimathaea, and honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus”.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:29 PM
Joseph was not alone in desiring access to the body of Jesus. Both Nicodemus and Joseph sought the body of Jesus for a deliberate purpose.

“Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.” (John 19:38-42). “And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the [mother] of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him” (Mark 16:1).

Above all, Jesus needed public affirmation of His mission. He proposed to reign over willing, devoted subjects; not in terror. But only outcasts saw Him for who He really was. “My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” (Luke 7:46-50).

Easton’s Bible Dictionary provides us a brief survey of the significance of “anointing” in Hebrew thought:

“The practice of anointing with perfumed oil was common among the Hebrews.

“(1.) The act of anointing was significant of consecration to a holy or sacred use; hence the anointing of the high priest (Exd 29:29; Lev 4:3) and of the sacred vessels (Exd 30:26). The high priest and the king are thus called "the anointed" (Lev 4:3,5,16; 6:20; Psa 132:10). Anointing a king was equivalent to crowning him (1Sa 16:13; 2Sa 2:4, etc.). Prophets were also anointed (1Ki 19:16; 1Ch 16:22; Psa 105:15). The expression, "anoint the shield" (Isa 21:5), refers to the custom of rubbing oil on the leather of the shield so as to make it supple and fit for use in war.

“(2.) Anointing was also an act of hospitality (Luk 7:38,46). It was the custom of the Jews in like manner to anoint themselves with oil, as a means of refreshing or invigorating their bodies (Deu 28:40; Rth 3:3; 2Sa 14:2; Psa 104:15, etc.). This custom is continued among the Arabians to the present day.

“(3.) Oil was used also for medicinal purposes. It was applied to the sick, and also to wounds (Psa 109:18; Isa 1:6; Mar 6:13; Jam 5:14).

“(4.) The bodies of the dead were sometimes anointed (Mar 14:8; Luk 23:56).

“(5.) The promised Deliverer is twice called the "Anointed" or Messiah (Psa 2:2; Dan 9:25,26), because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost (Isa 61:1), figuratively styled the "oil of gladness" (Psa 45:7; Hbr 1:9). Jesus of Nazareth is this anointed One (Jhn 1:41; Act 9:22; 17:2,3; 18:5,28), the Messiah of the Old Testament.”

Unsuccessful in anointing Jesus during His lifetime, Nicodemus and Joseph anointed Jesus after His death, perhaps as an act of faith in His resurrection.

In any event, their act was symbolic, since the full Sanhedrin had rejected Jesus from being King of the Jews. Jesus, familiar with the prophecies, knew of the national betrayal. However, He prophesied a second encounter with a born-again Sanhedrin over which His successor, the Antichrist, would prevail: “I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive” (John 5:43).

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:30 PM
The modern Sanhedrin has indeed been born again. On October 13th, 2004 (Israel time), 71 rabbis held an historic ceremony inaugurating the Sanhedrin as Judaism's supreme legal body. They stressed that by doing so, they are fulfilling a Biblical obligation incumbent upon them once the Jews established a significant presence in Israel.

After the Great Sanhedrin lost its authority in about 30 A.D., it moved to different cities in Galilee, eventually ending up in Tiberias, near the Sea of Tiberias (present-day Lake of Galilee). It is thus from Tiberias that the Sanhedrin was expected to be reborn. True to providence, this October 13th, 2004 historic meeting took place in the city of Tiberias.

Only the Sanhedrin has the statutory authority to restore the Davidic monarchy and anoint the King of the Jews, the Messiah.


The return of the Sanhedrin is one of many inferred events, perhaps prophecies, which necessitate the return of the Jews to their ancient homeland prior to the advent of the messiah. An inferred prophecy is a prophecy that is not explicit, yet necessary in order for an explicit prophecy to come to fruition. For example, for Jerusalem to welcome their messiah (Zechariah 9:9) they must first re-inhabit Jerusalem. “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion [shall be] from sea [even] to sea, and from the river [even] to the ends of the earth” (Zechariah 9:9, 10).

Many prophecies were fulfilled in part by the first messiah, Jesus Christ. Matthew (21:5) and John (12:15) cite Zechariah 9:9 in reference to Jesus Christ, but neither disciple attributes the tenth verse to Jesus Christ. Jesus did not and has not established a universal dominion. This latter work falls to His successor messiah, the Antichrist.

The world may well expect a repeat of Zechariah 9:9. According to Islamic prophecy, Dajjal, the Muslim name for the Christian Antichrist, rides a fantastic donkey to the ends of the earth. Perhaps unwittingly, the donkey metaphor confirms that Dajjal is a messianic figure.

While there are many prophecies yet remaining for Jesus Christ to fulfill exclusively upon His literal return, there are other prophecies, which He fulfilled in part, that pertain to both Jesus AND the Antichrist. To the Antichrist is committed the task of making the “enemies” of Christ His footstool. To the Antichrist is committed the task of preparing the Church Bride for the Bridegroom.

The prophets appear to have seen the future in sketchy images. The time and events between these images are not recorded; hence, based upon a mere reading of the prophecies, it is nearly impossible to ascertain the future before it actually occurs. The best we may hope to achieve is an accurate reading of the signs of the times so that we recognize the fulfillment of prophecy AFTER it occurs.



. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:31 PM

Dajjal, the name of the Islamic Antichrist, is expected to emerge along a road between Syria and Iraq, near the Sea of Tiberias (present-day Lake of Galilee). Islamic tradition suggests that the Lake of Tiberias (Tabbariyah) will dry up when Dajjal is in the world. Perhaps this is indicative of atmospheric conditions associated with the advent of the messiah under the figure of the Beast from the Bottomless Pit. In Revelation 11, the Two Witnesses appear on the world scene just prior to that of the Antichrist, the Beast from the Bottomless Pit. The Two Witnesses are thought to be Moses and Elijah. Their appearance is heralded by great extremes in the climate. "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy" (Revelation 11:6).

Dajjal first appears in pseudo-apocalyptic Christian literature and is reworked in hadith (sayings) ascribed to the Prophet Mohammad.


In biblical thinking, right and left had particular meanings. The right, as in “at the right hand of God”, meant favor, blessing and power. “And Jesus said, . . . ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:62).

In bidding the disciples to cast their Kingdom Net on the right side of the ship, Jesus saw with a prophetic eye the large catch of disciples, which likened to 153 fishes. The fish is a well-known symbol of the Christian disciple. I am convinced that the “right side” of the boat refers to the geographic area to the east of the Sea of Tiberias (Lake of Galilee), present-day Iraq.

The number 153 is obviously prophetic. It is so specific. Yet, only in our day, as prophecy unfolds before us in real time, are we able to ascertain its meaning.


What then is the prophetic significance of the number 153 in relation to Tiberias?

I cannot write with absolute certainty, but I have noted a development that appears to be more than a mere coincidence. Its relevance is confirmed by multiple “overlapping factors”, primarily the presence of the pseudo-prophet IN THE LAND. I will have more to say about this in the section on “PSEUDO-PROPHET”.

I have suggested that the “right side” of the boat, where the 153 is drawn from the Kingdom Net, refers to the geographic area of present-day Iraq.

In March 2003, the United States initiated "Operation Iraqi Freedom". This grand military invasion of Iraq was primarily designed and orchestrated by the United States and the United Kingdom.

According to, “The military objectives of Operation Iraqi Freedom consist of first, ending the regime of Saddam Hussein. Second, to identify, isolate and eliminate, Iraq's weapons of mass destruciton. Third, to search for, to capture and to drive out terrorists from the country. Fourth, to collect intelligence related to terrorist networks. Fifth, to collect such intelligence as is related to the global network of illicit weapons of mass destruction. Sixth, to end sanctions and to immediately deliver humanitarian support to the displaced and to many needed citizens. Seventh, to secure Iraq's oil fields and resources, which belong to the Iraqi people. Finally, to help the Iraqi people create conditions for a transition to a representative self-government.”

Knowingly or not, I believe that the United States and the United Kingdom are staging the field for the emergence of the Antichrist Messiah.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:32 PM
Consider that Operation Iraqi Freedom involved a pair of United States forces known as the 153rd Engineer Battalion and the 153rd Infantry Battalion. describes these forces as follows:


“The 153rd Engineer Battalion deployed to Iraq in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The 418 members of the battalion departed Fort Carson, Feb. 19-20, 2004 after receiving intensive training that included weapons qualifications, life saving techniques, convoy operations and Military Operations in Urbanized Terrain training.” --(


“The 153rd troops are part of the 39th enhanced Separate Brigade, assigned to the Fort Carson, Colo.-based 7th ID. The 7th ID was reactivated in 1999.

“On 02 April 2004 the 153rd made history when they left Camp New York in Kuwait, and enter Iraq on the road to Baghdad. This was the first time the 39th Brigade has ever deployed into a war zone. The soldiers of the 1st Battalion began their grueling three-day trek across the desert at 11:00 sharp. 1Lt Gregson kicked off the first serial consisting of CPT Pettigrew's CO A leading the Battalion.

“In April 2001 Croat nationalists declared a victory in a newly emerging fight for greater autonomy in Bosnia, saying their militia - with the permission of U.S. peacekeepers - had assumed control of weapons storage sites in this Croat-dominated pocket of northern Bosnia. Weapons used by Serb, Croat and Muslim troops during Bosnia's 31⁄2-year, three-way war have remained under lock and key at storage sites since the Dayton Peace Accords were signed in 1995. While inspected regularly by NATO's U.S.-led Stabilization Force peacekeepers, the sites themselves are guarded by troops serving under Bosnia's two ministate entities created in Dayton - the Serb Republic and the Muslim-Croat Federation. Eight of those sites - with enough weapons and ammunition to outfit a brigade of troops - are located in Orasje. Soldiers from the 1st Battalion, 153rd Infantry Regiment stood vigil around the sites.

“The parent unit of the 153rd Infantry was organized on 16 May 1898 for Spanish-American War service. But its lineage can be traced back to 1820 when a militia was organized by Brigadier General William C. Allen to protect Arkansas Territory from Indian attacks. Among the militia's officers were State heroes such as Archibald Yell and the nationally-known poet, philosopher, and expert Mason, Albert Pike. The precursor of the 153rd mustered as the 1st Arkansas Infantry, State Guard, for the Spanish-American War. It was assigned to 1st Brigade, 2nd Division, III Army Corps, and ordered to Puerto Rico. These orders were soon countermanded and the regiment was ordered to Fort Logan H. Roots at Little Rock where it mustered out on 25 October 1898, without seeing active service.

“On 31 March 1917, the 1st Arkansas mobilized for service in World War I with a strength of 110 officers and 6,317 enlisted men. The regiment went to Camp Pike, Arkansas (now Camp Joseph T. Robinson), where it was reorganized as the 153rd Infantry Regiment with a complement of more than 3,800. In May 1918, the regiment was sent to France, where the troops were to be used as replacements. The regiment was assigned to the 39th Division where it was stripped to a training cadre and stationed at Chery-Lury. On 31 October 1918, the 39th Division was broken up for front-line replacements. The 153rd was mustered out of federal service at Camp Beauregard, Louisiana, in January 1919. But an order issued by the Militia Bureau of the War Department recreated the regiment on 25 October 1921.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:33 PM
“The 153rd Infantry Regiment was ordered to active duty December 23, 1940 and spent the next 10 days at what is now the University of Central Arkansas. The 153rd then moved to Camp Robinson and completed basic training. Moving to Camp Forrest, TN, the regiment spent six week in maneuvers and returned to Camp Robinson for a few days of leave before shipping out to Camp Murray, WA August 20, 1941. The 1st and 3rd Battalions were then posted to Annette Island and Seward, Nome and Yakutat, Alaska. The 2nd Battalion was stationed on Umnak Island, west of Dutch Harbor and took part in the occupation of Adak Island and the assault on Kiska. The 153rd returned to Camp Shelby, MS March 21, 1944 and was deactivated on June 30th and its soldiers assigned as replacements. Many returned to Camp Robinson as cadre.” --(

Although other battalions are contributing to the Iraqi War effort, two notable factors are unique to the 39th Brigade and its 153rd Battalion:

1) the Iraqi War marks the first time it has ever deployed into a war zone; and

2) its relationship to the celebrated Mason, Albert Pike.

I will not devote much time or attention herein to masonry, other than to state that Albert Pike (and, reportedly, President George W. Bush, Sr.) are 33rd-degree Scottish masons.

Albert Pike was leader of the Scottish Rite in the southern United States and author of Morals and Dogma, published in 1871.

Masonry seeks to bring rationality to religion and understanding and dialog between the different faith traditions. This agenda is antithetical to the belief system known as Fundamentalism. Fundamentalists believe that “the carnal mind is enmity against God” (Romans 8:7), so a rational approach to faith cannot be trusted.

Fundamentalists have always been suspicious of masonry, even treating it as a cultish alternative to Fundamentalism.

Fundamentalists were vital to bringing President George W. Bush, Jr. to power, along with his neocon agenda. Ironically, in doing so, fundamentalists may have facilitated a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts if the outcome of the Iraqi War brings about the event they have been taught to dread above all else, the emergence of the Antichrist.


It would seem peculiar that given its natural meaning the Apostle John would choose the word “cast” in relation to the Beast and the Pseudo-Prophet. In popular theology they are far too dangerous than to treat with anything short of calculated, deliberate oversight.

Without doubt, Jesus chose the fishing net as a metaphor of salvation because it was a familiar to the disciples and would act as a constant reminder that amidst their temptation to return to their common occupations, they were never to forget the larger calling of being fishers of men. According to Matthew 4:18, “And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers”.


The Beast and the Pseudo-Prophet share their part in the mystical “lake of fire”. The Greek word for “false prophet” in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10 is pseudoprophetes. It literally means “false prophet; one who, acting the part of a divinely inspired prophet, utters falsehoods under the name of divine prophecies”. However, I have chosen the term “Pseudo-Prophet” to better reflect the sense that it is a power that does not intentionally deceive, but rather misleads people with a false interpretation of the prophecies.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:34 PM
The Pseudo-Prophet is likely the Two-Horned Beast of Revelation 13. For the reader’s convenience, I have cited the chapter in full before making comments:

[1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
[2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[9] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[11] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[12] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[13] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[14] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


The lamb-like, Two-Horned Beast arises from the earth, whereas the Antichrist Beast arises from the sea. The Greek word ge may be translated “earth” or “land”.

The term “land” is used to refer to the territorial domain promised to the forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Promised Land extends from the Nile River to the Euphrates River. Genesis 15:18. This “land” and the “lake of fire” are the same geographic territory.

The Pseudo-Prophet is present IN THE LAND before the Antichrist Beast takes control of it. Interestingly, the Antichrist Beast is depicted as coming from some place outside of the Promised Land, as represented by the sea.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:35 PM
The fact that the Two-Horned Beast is lamb-like (Greek, arnion) suggests that it is a Christian power. The lamb is a well-known Christian symbol, especially in reference to Jesus Christ. “Lamb” may also refer to the followers of Jesus Christ. Jesus said to Peter, “Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs” (John 21:15).

The two horns of the second Beast likely represent the Christianized nations of the United States and the United Kingdom. One horn is higher than the other, meaning one nation is more powerful than the other. Yet between them there is a cultural continuity; this Beast is one beast.

The Pseudo-Prophet enters the Land (Iraq) in order to forward its neocon agenda.


I have posted a number of articles that originally appeared in the Christian Science Monitor. I invite the reader to review these articles.

What do neoconservatives believe? According to the Christian Science Monitor:

"'Neocons' believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

"Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough. One such threat, they contend, was Saddam Hussein and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 1991 Gulf War, neocons relentlessly advocated Mr. Hussein's ouster.

"Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.

"What are the roots of neoconservative beliefs?

"The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense. Many of these neocons worked in the 1970s for Democratic Senator Henry 'Scoop' Jackson, a staunch anti-communist. By the 1980s, most neocons had become Republicans, finding in President Ronald Reagan an avenue for their aggressive approach of confronting the Soviet Union with bold rhetoric and steep hikes in military spending. After the Soviet Union's fall, the neocons decried what they saw as American complacency. In the 1990s, they warned of the dangers of reducing both America's defense spending and its role in the world.

"Unlike their predecessors, most younger neocons never experienced being left of center. They've always been 'Reagan' Republicans.

"What is the difference between a neoconservative and a conservative?

"Liberals first applied the 'neo' prefix to their comrades who broke ranks to become more conservative in the 1960s and 70s. The defectors remained more liberal on some domestic policy issues. But foreign policy stands have always defined neoconservatism. Where other conservatives favored détente and containment of the Soviet Union, neocons pushed direct confrontation, which became their raison d'etre during the 1970s and 80s.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:36 PM
"Today, both conservatives and neocons favor a robust US military. But most conservatives express greater reservations about military intervention and so-called nation building. Neocons share no such reluctance. The post 9/11-campaigns against regimes in Afghanistan and Iraq demonstrate that the neocons are not afraid to force regime change and reshape hostile states in the American image. Neocons believe the US must do to whatever it takes to end state-supported terrorism. For most, this means an aggressive push for democracy in the Middle East. Even after 9/11, many other conservatives, particularly in the isolationist wing, view this as an overzealous dream with nightmarish consequences.

"How have neoconservatives influenced US foreign policy?

"Finding a kindred spirit in President Reagan, neocons greatly influenced US foreign policy in the 1980s.

"But in the 1990s, neocon cries failed to spur much action. Outside of Reaganite think tanks and Israel's right-wing Likud Party, their calls for regime change in Iraq were deemed provocative and extremist by the political mainstream. With a few notable exceptions, such as President Bill Clinton's decision to launch isolated strikes at suspected terrorist targets in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, their talk of preemptive military action was largely dismissed as overkill.

"Despite being muted by a president who called for restraint and humility in foreign affairs, neocons used the 1990s to hone their message and craft their blueprint for American power. Their forward thinking and long-time ties to Republican circles helped many neocons win key posts in the Bush administration.

"The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 moved much of the Bush administration closer than ever to neoconservative foreign policy. Only days after 9/11, one of the top neoconservative think tanks in Washington, the Project for a New American Century, wrote an open letter to President Bush calling for regime change in Iraq. Before long, Bush, who campaigned in 2000 against nation building and excessive military intervention overseas, also began calling for regime change in Iraq. In a highly significant nod to neocon influence, Bush chose the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) as the venue for a key February 2003 speech in which he declared that a US victory in Iraq 'could begin a new stage for Middle Eastern peace.' AEI – the de facto headquarters for neconservative policy – had been calling for democratization of the Arab world for more than a decade.

"What does a neoconservative dream world look like?

"Neocons envision a world in which the United States is the unchallenged superpower, immune to threats. They believe that the US has a responsibility to act as a 'benevolent global hegemon.' In this capacity, the US would maintain an empire of sorts by helping to create democratic, economically liberal governments in place of 'failed states' or oppressive regimes they deem threatening to the US or its interests. In the neocon dream world the entire Middle East would be democratized in the belief that this would eliminate a prime breeding ground for terrorists. This approach, they claim, is not only best for the US; it is best for the world. In their view, the world can only achieve peace through strong US leadership backed with credible force, not weak treaties to be disrespected by tyrants.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:38 PM
"Any regime that is outwardly hostile to the US and could pose a threat would be confronted aggressively, not 'appeased' or merely contained. The US military would be reconfigured around the world to allow for greater flexibility and quicker deployment to hot spots in the Middle East, as well as Central and Southeast Asia. The US would spend more on defense, particularly for high-tech, precision weaponry that could be used in preemptive strikes. It would work through multilateral institutions such as the United Nations when possible, but must never be constrained from acting in its best interests whenever necessary."

There is one statement I want to single out for comment: “Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq.” In their efforts to transform the region in their own democratic image, neocons and their fundamentalist allies may facilitate the rise to power of the Antichrist.

[NOTE: Although the Beast, the Pseudo-Prophet, and Satan are cast into the mystical “lake of fire”, Satan goes last. According to Revelation 20, Satan is “chained” in the Bottomless Pit at the beginning of the 1,000-year empire of the Antichrist. Satan himself is “cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are]” AFTER the expiration of the 1,000 years.]


The period of duration according to Revelation 20:10 is “day and night for ever and ever”. The Beast and the Pseudo-Prophet will pursue their respective agendas relentlessly until it is accomplished.


Lastly, I drew attention to a passage in Revelation 14:9-11 that parallel’s the “lake of fire” passages. It provided an important clue into God’s motive and character. This passage, along with its context, reads,

[1] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
[2] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
[5] And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8] And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

. . .

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:39 PM
[12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

To the Antichrist Lamb and 144,000 of his disciples is committed the task of evangelizing the world. This includes:

1) heralding the everlasting gospel;

2) deconstructing mystical Babylon; and

3) building the mystical City of God, Jerusalem.

Babylon is described figuratively as both a harlot and a city that seduces all nations into fornicating with her: “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” (Revelation 17:5).

Mystical Babylon is contrasted with mystical Jerusalem, which is described figuratively as both a virtuous Bride and the city of the Lamb (Revelation 21:2, 9).

In the Message of the Third Angel (verses 9-11), the Apostle John uses sexual “passion”, mistranslated “wrath”, as a metaphor for God’s fervent desire for and pursuit of His people. The Greek word for wrath is thumos, meaning “passion”, signifying the spirit or breath panting as it were in the body. God must choose between two mystical women, Babylon and Jerusalem. The choice is not hard. God rejects the harlot, Babylon, in favor of Jerusalem, the virtuous Bride whom He passionately pursues day and night “for ever and ever”.


The traditional Doctrine of Hell is not consistent with Solidarity Theology. The “in Christ” motif, which is the central interpretive principle in Solidarity Theology, does not allow for failure, which underlies the proposition of a future abode of the damned.


In “Debunking the Doctrine of 'Hell' (Part I)” (July 2006), I stated that the traditional teaching of Hell is erroneous because it rests on at least one or a combination of three defects in scholarship, which I discussed as suppositions. They are interpreting a symbol literally; failing to understand and apply the concept of two messiahs; and, mistranslating the text.

Throughout this concluding article, I have brought these three suppositions to bear upon the traditional Hell.

I demonstrated that interpreting a symbol literally misleads the reader in understanding the real intent of the “lake of fire”. “Brimstone” denotes the presence of divinity. To those who are unrepentant and unsubmissive, the lake of fire and brimstone is a cleansing, purging, purifying, and consuming experience. They will come under profound conviction that torments them day and night until they finally yield.

I applied the concept of two messiahs. By doing so, I showed how the Beast and the Pseudo-Prophet are the agents of God under His direction for the divine, providential purpose of netting a catch of souls.

Lastly, I showed how a mistranslation of God’s “wrath” veiled His real “passion” for believers.

The traditional Hell is a human invention, not an act of God. For those who refuse to undertake the hard work of reconciling the love of God with their own human failings, Hell is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The doctrine of Hell has been used to discredit the character of God. This must end. Devotion motivated by fear is pretentious. As such, it cannot please God. When all is done, only the class prompted by love will still serve God with a full heart even when the threat of punishment is completely removed.

Change is an inevitable condition of life. The biblical Hell is a precursor to 1,000 years of peace on earth. As the forerunner of a potentially positive change, Hell ought to be regarded as an opportunity for Paradise.

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 11:33 PM

You have voted Neron Kesar for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I would have to say that you are one of the better writers here on ATS, and since your topics are right up my alley, it is especially a pleasure to read through them.

I am not sure I agree with the age of the antichrist, as you specified in one of your other threads, but much of your interpretation is more accurate than what has traditionally been taught. Much of what you espouse is also thoughts I have had, although you are much better at putting it all together in a continuous fashion. For this I applaud your efforts.

I hope you will further provide us with more clues.

I am especially interested in Revelations and Daniel. The torment of 5 months in Rev. comes to mind as well as the entire interpretation of the end times as given to Daniel.

I found an interesting link of the feet of iron and clay given in Daniels dream as an interpretation of a divided 666 using atomic weights. It is in this thread, I hope you will read it:

The 3 1/2 times in Revelation

also here (single post):
Continuing 666 Conspiracy

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ben91069]

posted on May, 1 2007 @ 07:41 AM
Wow, this is a powerful doctrine here.

The premise that Hell doesn't exist as described, something I've always felt but usually kept to myself because.. well.. it didn't make sense in the whole scheme of Orthodox Christianity or the New Testament, particularly Revelation.

By the way, I could only find one single fault in your entire essay. Revelation, otherwise known as "The Apocalypse of John", wasn't written by John the Beloved Disciple, but rather sometime after the death of the Disciples, or towards their old age. John of Patmos, another John of Christian fame, he was exiled to an isle called Patmos where he had the visions and wrote Revelation. That isn't the same John as the Beloved.. kinda throws you for a curve ball doesn't it, considering that it doesn't indicate this anywhere definitively in the text, as if to trick you. Heheh..

The Lake of Fire not being Hell makes sense. Before Christianity, there wasn't a Jewish Hell concept, but rather a place called Sheol, which is not the same as Hell. Sheol was where all men went when they died, the inbetween, to wait for redemption into Heaven I think? Or was it to wait for the Messiah? I'm not Jewish, I'm Christian, so it's hard to get all this correct all the time.

The thing that is odd is that Jesus (Yahshua) prophecized that the Temple would be destroyed in 3 days, down to the last stone. When Vespasian, aka Titus, conquered Jerusalem he had the Temple burnt to the ground, and even had the ashes and rocks 'raked across' so that they were spread and one could no longer discern that a Temple ever even stood there. With the Exception of the Western Wall, which was left up for some reason or another, oh yeah, I think to provide shade for Legionaries? Or as a Barracks or something. Wait, the Towers were left standing, the 3 Forts, as Barracks, the West Wall may have been left for another reason.

But nonetheless, its chilling to think of how thorough the Temple was destroyed by Roman account, exactly as Jesus described. Not a stone left standing. Most buildings, when destroyed, still have debris, aka stones left standing. To prophecy that the Temple would be utterly removed wth not a single stone, and to have it come true a mere 70 years after his passing, is simply amazing and one of the reasons I think Jesus is Messiah. By the way, the West Wall or Wailing Wall is from the old city, not from Herod's Temple itself, which was utterly destroyed.

Onto the lake of fire. The False Prophet and The Beast are "cast" into the lake, as if they were a net, to catch believers, or is it non believers getting snared by these? Because it seems that those who follow the Beast already are doing so in the text by the time the lake of fire incident occurs.

I always found the U.S. troop level of 144,000 to be extremely odd in Iraq. It has recently been surged, but from the post-invasion until recently we had exactly 144,000 troops over in Iraq. That sounds like some certain Christian Fundamentalists in our Government of the U.S. are trying to either replicate End Time prophecy, or bring it about, but these are no Jewish Virgins. Granted I bet almost all of the enlisted men are circumcised, that doesn't define a Jew. They also don't have Gods name on them. If anything, these would be viewed as possible agents of the Beast.

Onto the Beast: I have two main ideas as to what the Beast is or will be. A Nation/Empire, certainly. Comes from the sea? Maritime power. Marine invasions. Aircraft Carriers. It says in the text "And people marveled after the Beast, and worshipped its image, saying; Who can beat the Beast? (in War) Who is stronger than the Beast?" thats not a literal quote, but close enough.

I don't know about you, but the American Military has always touted itself as the strongest, most powerful on the Planet. And I live in America, and all you ever hear in conversations about wars, and possible wars with other nations is: "Man We'd kick their ass, America has the best military in the world, no one can beat us." . Tell me you havent heard this line in the past 7 years? I have so many times I cant count. everyone, even the Israelis and even some Europeans think "Who can defeat the U.S. in open war?"

The answer is no one. In an actual war, Nukes would ensure mutual destruction if America began to lose or was Nuked itself.

But that sounds so strikingly similar to the line from Revelation:

and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like the beast; who is able to make war with it?
Rev 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given to it. And authority to act forty two months was given to it.
Rev 13:6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those tabernacling in Heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given to it "to war with the saints, and to overcome them." And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation. Dan. 7:21

(Who has more Authority on the World Scene than U.S.? U.N. Headquarters is in New York City.)

Rev 9:2 And he opened the pit of the abyss. And smoke went up out of the pit, like smoke of a great furnace. And the sun was darkened, and the air, by the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And out of the smoke locusts came forth to the earth. And authority was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have authority.
Rev 9:6 And in those days men will seek death, and they will not find it. And they will long to die, yet death will flee from them.
Rev 9:7 And the likenesses of the locusts were like horses having been prepared for war; and on their heads as crowns, like gold; and their faces like the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hairs like the hairs of women; and their teeth were like those of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates like iron breastplates; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running to war.
Rev 9:10 And they have tails like scorpions, and their stings were in their tails; and their authority is to harm men five months.
Rev 9:11 And they have a king over them, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name was Abaddon, and in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

That sounds like a description of modern events. Men will seek death yet not die, these are terrorist suicide bombers who seek death, yet their device fails to detonate, or they are non-fatally shot before detonating it, or they are..


posted on May, 1 2007 @ 08:14 AM
or they are captured before they can even carry their 'martyrdom mission' out at all.

seeking death isn't just your own death, but seeking death of others too.

the last biblical quote i quoted above talks about the pit and the locusts, and how they look and so forth.

It said this:
-They sound like 100s of chariots rushing to battle (helicopter blades spinning)
-They have scorpion tails (The rear of a helicopter has a tail with a fin and a small propeller back there. It points upward like a scorpions tail.)
-Those tails sting & it comes from the tail (missiles, guns, rockets, etc)
-They have iron breastplates (armor vests or helicopters made of metal)
-They have heads of lions (im assuming this describes their ferociousness and ability to tear people apart w/munitions as if a lion had attacked and ate them or mauled them. lions were symbolic in biblical text due to the danger they posed to the people of those times in the wilderness. Its a running theme throughout..)
-They have locust wings (helicopters; they fly. they fy in groups. they show up suddenly and quickly. you can hear them coming shortly before they're ontop of you.)

So to me, it sounds like John of Patmos could be describing Operation Iraqi Freedom. Which could make the Beast the United States or the U.N, or even NATO, and Babylon could be New York City, or D.C. The Followers of the False Prophet, it says, will kill the non-believers, or whom they call as such. Sounds strikingly similar to Muslim Extremists killing everyone who isn't a Sunni Muslim.

Babylon could also be the current Israel, which could be inhabited by mainly Eastern European descent Jews from the Khazar Kingdom (Land of Gog and Magog), which was north of the Caucasus Mts, present Russia/Ukraine. These are mostly non-semitic in ethnicity, only slightly, because there were only small amounts of actual semitic Jews who went there during the Diaspora. But the Khagan, Khazar leader, chose Judaism as the official religion. This theory would mean the people of Gog and Magog have already invaded Israel, and are currently occupying it, not being of the original bloodline of ethnic semitic Jews. That is reaching, ill admit. I dont think ethnicity matters in the eyes of God.

The other Babylon choice would be modern Iraq. It is where the old Babylon was, just some 20 miles south of Baghdad. So Baghdad is almost on the exact same spot. It says in the prophecies that when Babylon falls it will be split into three. We are seeing this unfolding now, as the Kurds in the North, Shia in the South and East, and Sunni in the Center and West are dividing up among sectarian lines. Neighborhoods are becoming segregation due to relocation and refugees from sectarian killings. There are plans to give each group an autonomous region in Iraq, so the country would be split into three, while still retaining its borders as a single nation.

Regarding the 4 Angels of the Euphrates:

Rev 9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, Release the four angels, those having been bound at the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were released, those having been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, that they should kill the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the armies of the cavalry was two myriads of myriads; and I heard their number.
Rev 9:17 And so I saw in the vision the horses, and those sitting on them, having fire-colored breastplates, even dusky red and brimstone-like; and the heads of the horses as heads of lions; and out of their mouths come fire and smoke and brimstone.

More warfare going on in Iraq in this part, I think we can all see that.

Horses with heads of lions are Humvees whose front ends have headlights and a grill which look like eyes and a mouth. I know thats stretching it, but if he was trying to explain what he saw that he could not understand, he would describe it with such things, this is the best that he had to describe with. Of course I could be totally wrong..

The last thing I'll touch on is the Beast being an Islamic Fundamentalist Empire of the near future. Lets say U.S. withdraws early, and Iraq is divvied up among its neighbors. Iran would get the majority of it, being Shia, and Syria would get a decent piece, Anbar province, where the Kurds up north would just be trying to get-by. Like Al-Qaeda, Terrorist Organizations. They have multiple cells and multiple groups, like multiple heads with multiple horns. They come from the sea whenever they launch attacks on other countries.

I'm not going to insult the muslims on this board by saying Mohammed could be the False Prophet which leads the masses into killing the non-believers, but then i'd just be an Islamo-phobe wouldnt I? Lol..

I hope you got the subtle hint there.

[edit on 5/1/2007 by runetang]

posted on May, 1 2007 @ 08:31 AM

Originally posted by ben91069
I found an interesting link of the feet of iron and clay given in Daniels dream as an interpretation of a divided 666 using atomic weights. It is in this thread, I hope you will read it:

The interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream by Daniel on condition of death if he refused is pretty interesting.

I've heard it described as the different portions of the body being made of different things, then finally a mixture at the bottom of 2 things causing it to break apart, all being different eras of a specific Empire or representing a couple of Empires, the last one, the feet of clay and iron which break apart, could be America. Or, it could be the Schism between West and Eastern Roman Empire. Alternatively, it could be the Israeli/Palestinian situation. Or it could be none of the above.

We never truly know until we get a chance to use hindsight.

[edit on 5/1/2007 by runetang]

posted on May, 1 2007 @ 08:43 AM

I applaud you on a well piece of written revelation.
My question is this,should I or we believe what you say is the truth because it is written in a way where it sort of makes sense in a todays 'worldly modern'society of everything goes?
Especially if this is, what peoplewant to hear ?
Do we subconsciously want things to be our 'own' wordly ideas or come to think that we have attained the knowledge, of how we want things to be in the future, or the end of times?
Many have already re written scripture to fit into their OWN idea of how God wants us to be..that is not Gods law, but Mans Law making himself god ....
What Im trying to say is, I think man wants his own knowledge recognized where fame and glory comes by the people .........These are Qualities of Wordly acceptance and not what God seeks of which is Humbleness and Love.
I do not agree or disagree with your posts,only because you have stated a few facts about the coming of the Antichrist and who shall be present and what Goverment will rule and all..... but I find myself going back to the teachings of the Early Church of which many of the Fathers/elders/Rightous people have within themselves the presence of the Holy Spirit and they did prophesy and not one has been wrong in their prophesies regarding the signs and the coming of the Antichrist.
You see, A prophecy many can make........''many shall prophesie in My name'', said Jesus Christ and it has happened and it will continue to happen till the end of times.......not one person knows of the times of which the Antichrist appears........we are only given signs/prophecy that points us to recognise that it is get spiritually ready.
A true prophet will make no mistakes in his prophecy......not 99% truth with 1% of lies, but 100% truth because it was Gods Word and not some work of demons.
I again find it a little hard to believe or should I say 'trust' in what you say because you have in a previous post,said that you are the Antichrists Advocate?

posted on 4/27/2007 @ 08:09 PM (ID:3150125, Post Number: 3,050,235) single this post

I am an advocate of the true Antichrist, who was born on October 14, 1963 in the United State

If I go by the teachings of the Apostles and the Fathers of the church, then I should not be believing in anything you say.
Is that right?
You see, just because something sounds all good and all, it does not make it right!
All of those Fathers/Elders/Monks that did prophesie about the Antichrist and the beginning of sorrows and afflictions that will befall mankind before the end, led very humble lives, taking no credit for what they spoke,but with tears and sadness in their eyes foretold the people of what was to come on mankind........ many shall be fooled with lies and deception and false prophets and prophecy.

I know that you dont call yourself a prophet?
Well, I honestly do not know that!
Do you consider yourself a Prophet?

An Antichrist or AntichristS in my opinion is someone who opposes Christ , is against Christ and tries to be like Christ.
If you are the Antchrists Advocate, then your teachings about who he is or what he stands for is false.
Are your opinions or statements entirely false?
No, but that 1% has me doubting you as a true follower of Scripture.

Gee, I dont know how much of this makes sense to you, but If it does not, then I will gladly come back and not jump from one to another....I seem to do this.
take care,

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