Far-Fetched????

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
And no return yet from Iandavis...

Did someone offend him away? Yay we win! I like a nice, tight, select choir to preach to anyway.
(sarcasm)
Or was this all a joke I wasn't informed of?

Silly Me!

Sorry to be preachy there guys, I didn't realize how onerous and irritating this Iandavis can be. Good work, Thestev, Nick, Pootie, Tyrany. I don't suppose you'll get through, but it's good exercise, no?

Silly Ian Doofus!

Ian you have a few points and seem occasionaly reasonable, but seem to have a hard time admitting the obvious. You should do well in the New American Century.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Caustic Logic]

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Caustic Logic]

theStev.....

your quote>"Is this coming from your intimate knowledge of the interior operations of US oil companies, or is this also based on the assumption that if anything noteworthy was happening the media would've told us about it?"

It's based on the fact that such an endevour requires congressional and executive approval. Both of which are done publically and would not fly under radar. Can you list the last time a US company got secret approval from congress and the president to do business with a foreign governement under sucha circumstance? No you can't, because it has never occured. All you can do is blabber that nobody really knows because it's all done in secret. Well why not just claim that the pipeline has already been secretly built and no one knows of its existence because it's a big f***ing secret?

your quote>"Another flaw that occurs to me with your nerve-gas plan is the visuals. What could the media potentially show to drive the culture of fear using your nerve-gas attacks?"

Showing several thousand dead New Englanders after a Celtic game just might do it, but you're missing the point. The overwhelming support for an Iraq invasion would not come from visual dramatics, it would come from framing Saddam and showing the country that he just used chemical weapons to kill thousands of US citizens, therefore he will likely do it again. Remember, there were no visual dramatics at Pearl Harbor. Going back to my original point, why frame Bin Laden if you want to invade Iraq? Saddam could've just as easliy been blamed. Why go to all the trouble of 911, when you can do something much simpler and get the same result?

Your quote>"How, other than with the collapse of the WTC towers, can you show the simultaneous deaths of 3000 odd people, without actually literally showing them dying?"

Blow up the Staples Center in LA during an NBA playoff game. The Blimp would get a nice aerial of it. Plus, since the arena is empty most the time, it would be easier for a demo team to plant the bombs. Then blame it on Saddam's secret police. Clean and simple.

Tyranny quote>"Who has VX nerve gas? The United States and possibly their allies. Why would they implicate themselves so foolishly as you've suggested."

Hey goofball! You obviously don't read the news and are not up on world history. We (the US) gave Saddam chemical weapons and the technology to make them in the early 80's.

Originally posted by iandavis
Tyranny quote>"Who has VX nerve gas? The United States and possibly their allies. Why would they implicate themselves so foolishly as you've suggested."

Hey goofball! You obviously don't read the news and are not up on world history. We (the US) gave Saddam chemical weapons and the technology to make them in the early 80's.

thanks for proving my point.

[edit]

what's with all the name calling? what are you, like ten years old?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by tyranny22]

ToxicLogic quote>"Ian you have a few points and seem occasionaly reasonable, but seem to have a hard time admitting the obvious."

The obvious? What would that be Mr. Toxic? That Elvis is still alive? Or.....Bigfoot is hiding in Canada? Or, the neocons convinced the Bush to murder 3000 of his own countrymen?

Me and the majority of living breathing educated humans are overlooking these obvious things. Sorry.....we'll all try to pay better attention from now on.

Anyway, I hate to be rude, but I'm late for a game of chess with the ET that's been living in my 6 year old's bedroom closet.

OMG, he's got a 6 year old?! That poor child.

I hope that when she says,
"Daddy, teacher says that every time a bell rings an angel gets it's wings"
he doesn't reply with:

Originally posted by iandavis
Listen to how stupid you sound!

Tyranny quote>"OMG, he's got a 6 year old?! That poor child"

I'm sure you've already told yours that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are part of a world conspiracy involving Neocons, Free Masons, the Ilumanti, Satan and the 5th Beatle. And I'm real sure you'll have him or her spinning their Ipod backwards, listening for evil messages by the time they're in their teens.

Seriously, I pray that no child falls ever has the misfortune of being graced by your mental disorder.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by iandavis]

[edit on 10-5-2007 by iandavis]

What? No comment about the far-fetched C-130 flight on 9/11?

Originally posted by iandavis
Can you list the last time a US company got secret approval from congress and the president to do business with a foreign governement under sucha circumstance? No you can't, because it has never occured.

Bahahaha, you're off to a great start here. No, of course I can't. Not because it has never occurred, but because by your own admission it was 'secret'! It's like me saying to you - when was the last time you saw an invisible man huh? huh? You didn't, because they don't exist.

Well, maybe they don't, but if they're invisible then your not seeing them is hardly proof that they don't exist now is it?

Showing several thousand dead New Englanders after a Celtic game just might do it, but you're missing the point. The overwhelming support for an Iraq invasion would not come from visual dramatics, it would come from framing Saddam and showing the country that he just used chemical weapons to kill thousands of US citizens, therefore he will likely do it again.

How do you 'show the country that he just used chemical weapons to kill thousands of US citizens' without visuals? I suppose you think that all that was needed to drive support from an Iraq/Afghanistan invasion was for the media to put some text on screen saying 'Hey guys, Saddam/Bin Laden just killed a bunch of your fellow country-men, mind if we invade their countries?' Just to reiterate. You're saying that visuals were not important, what was important was to show people what just happened. 'Visuals' are what is used to 'show' something.



Nope, no dramatic visuals at all. And that was just the first google result.

Blow up the Staples Center in LA during an NBA playoff game.

Oh right, just blow it up. Do you realise how ridiculously simple you've made that sound? You've put it across like 'Just waltz into Staples Centre and hit the self destruct button built into the stadium'. And blame it on Saddam's secret police that somehow got into America and were able to operate on Saddam's command once inside.

If a stadium just 'blew up' then people would ask why - where did the explosives come from - how were they planted in a stadium - etc etc. If planes fly into a building and the building collapses there were no explosives, nothing to be planted (according to the official story). In fact, once again (perhaps you'd like to ignore this again) the only equipment required (according to the official story) is some boxcutters.

Once more, explain to me how a plot for which the official story requires either a chemical agent or numerous explosives is conceptually less complicated than a plot that just required 14 or so committed operatives and a few box-cutters?

thestev
Bahahaha, you're off to a great start here. No, of course I can't. Not because it has never occurred, but because by your own admission it was 'secret'! It's like me saying to you - when was the last time you saw an invisible man huh? huh? You didn't, because they don't exist."

You can't hide a business partnership the size of Unocal, Afghanistan, Iran Turkey and whoever. If all of a sudden these players started building a pipeline the whole planet would stand up and question....."How and when did this get approval"? So a better way for me to put it is this way.....name a current business alliance between a major company like Unocal and a foreign governement that can show no record of congressional and executive approval? Do really think business deals exist like this and no one knows about them?


thestev
'Hey guys, Saddam/Bin Laden just killed a bunch of your fellow country-men, mind if we invade their countries?'

Your speculating regarding the importance of visuals. Granted they have an effect, but many a leader rallied their countries to war without them. Pearl Harbor's visuals were not in real time, with the exception of a couple of newspaper photograph's, they came later after FDR declared war. In fact, many a president went to war without full support of the people. Look at WWI, a german U-boat sinking the Lusitania was the catalyst. Still, most Americans were against getting involved. Wilson went anyway. Same with Korea, Truman made a hugely unpopular call to get involved right after we got out of WWII. Did the UK have visuals when Argentina attacked the Falkland Islands? No, they didn't. Not everyone rallied to the call, but Maggie didn't care, she ordered the Navy to do their thing. She even sicked the Gerkers on those poor Argentine soldiers. You simply do not need all the complication and drama of a 911 to justify a war.

thestev
Oh right, just blow it up. Do you realise how ridiculously simple you've made that sound?

Yeah...that's the point. Much less complicated than blowing up the WTC.


Once more, explain to me how a plot for which the official story requires either a chemical agent or numerous explosives is conceptually less complicated than a plot that just required 14 or so committed operatives and a few box-cutters?

First of all, it wasn't just the boxcutters, one of the hijkackers on each plane was reportedly strapped with explosives. That's why everyone was so cooperative.

However, I'm not comparing the truth of 911 (which is basically the major media's account) to the sports arena scenario, I'm comparing the complexity of this kooky conspiracy plot that you guys have bought into. The one where there are really no hijacked planes or terroists. The one where the government flies remote controlled planes and missles into buildings that collapse due to controlled demolition anyway. The one where 100's media people and politicians are "in on the cover-up" and are part of the evil Neocon, Free Mason, Ilumanti plan for a one world government. That kooky conspiracy plot.

Originally posted by iandavis
The one where there are really no hijacked planes or terroists. The one where the government flies remote controlled planes and missles into buildings that collapse due to controlled demolition anyway. The one where 100's media people and politicians are "in on the cover-up" and are part of the evil Neocon, Free Mason, Ilumanti plan for a one world government. That kooky conspiracy plot.

I don't buy into the whole "no planes" and "no terrorist" theory. And, I'm not sure why you think a government conspiracy would involve the media, free masons, or neo-cons, but hey, whatever you need to keep telling yourself to believe the "truth".

Does the idea that the government would destroy two buildings in order to drive the population into a panic stricken "please guide us, we don't know what to do" state and give itself a foothold in the middle east too far fetched for you to believe? You have to associate every person's ideas of holograms and aliens within it?

Have you ever read the Patriot Act? Do you think we'd have the Patriot Act now if 9/11 never happened? Do you think the government could initiate martial law? what about invade a country without U.N. approval?

9/11 did everything to strengthen the power and control this administration holds over the world. They even have a shadow government set up ... just in case congress were to be wiped out by a nuclear weapon. How convienient. I'm sure the President will just happen to be away from washington if that ever happens. What happens when a shadow government is in control. Do you think we can hold people accountable when we don't know who they are, or where they are?

Is this the kind of world you want your kids to grow up in. A world of fear and ignorance?

Sorry, I Had to Comment....It's been a while.

Not posting on ATS in some time now was a choice I made because I had nothing new to add.

I'm sure as soon as some of the old timers, ie: bsbray and Anok see me..the ol "tilting towers" will be brought up. For the record, in the past i have posted reports from OTHER engineers and demo experts in regards to the collapse of the WTC towers and WTC7. Bsbray was all over them like a cheap suit...and being one to ADMIT when i havent a CLUE about something... I kindly bow out unless I get some facts that I can actually understand!! that being said, I had nothing more to add to the 911 threads..so i posted in BTC movie threads. (less hostile) Ok... now...

This thread has been the most enjoyable i have read in some time. Actually besides the name calling (on BOTH sides)this has been the best.

My name was brought up by the #1 Dis-info agent Wizzard. His claim that victims of the hijacked planes names were missing off the SS Death Index is not 100% accurate. We were in a heated discussion several months ago. If one does a search in this data base, they SHOULD be able to find ANYONE they know in it. That beign said, If you look up anyone that has died in the result of an airline crash or other events, the names do not appear RIGHT AWAY. Why? I dunno. Look at the Space Shuttle Challenger. Christa McCauliffs name is NOT in the SS Death Index...The Space Shuttle Columbia does not list all the American Astronauts that perished. Do a Google search on ANY airline crash...You will see MANY of the victims (American Citizens) do not appear on these lists.

Anyway...great debating going on in here guys. Sorry..included in my 2 cents is a WATS for IAN. That dude knows his stuff! Caustic, your another good source in here and i enjoy your posts.

IAN, I would like for you to comment on the Controlled Demolition Theories that float around here if you could. Commenting on the "strawman" arguments in here are useless! ie: ANYTHING Wizard posts!!

Have fun guys!

Originally posted by CameronFox
Sorry, I Had to Comment....It's been a while.

Not posting on ATS in some time now was a choice I made because I had nothing new to add.

Who does? Oh it happens sometimes...

Anyway...great debating going on in here guys. Sorry..included in my 2 cents is a WATS for IAN. That dude knows his stuff! Caustic, your another good source in here and i enjoy your posts.

Thanks! And speaking of WTC debunkig, Wondering what you think of this thread?
www.cooperativeresearch.org...