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Salute to 6 Sqn RAF and the Jaguar

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posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 06:39 AM
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As of today, 30 April 2007, 33 years of frontline service by RAF Jaguars comes to an end as No 6 Sqn ceases operations, with all Jaguar flying to end in the UK by 25 May. Never again am I too see a flight of Jaguars roaring overhead at very low level, a sight I have enjoyed with a fair amount of regularity since my childhood.

The Jaguar first entered RAF service in 1974, replacing the Phantom in the ground attack role.

In RAF service the Jaguar was operated by ex Phantom units Nos 2, 6, 14, 17, 31, 41 and 54 Squadrons, ex Harrier unit 20 Sqn (who followed a very odd route swapping their Hunters for Harriers, then moving to the Jaguar, then the Tornado and finally back to the Harrier again) . 16(R) became the identity of the Jaguar OCU after the disbandment of the Buccaneer equipped 16 Sqn in the 1990's.

No 6 Sqn, the last Jaguar unit, were formed in 1914 and for the last seven decades their aircraft have carried a 'flying can opener' unit badge which they have used ever since they flew Hurricanes equipped with anti-tank guns in Africa during world war 2, this is a role which they continued in ever since but which also ends today.

When 6 Sqn reforms next summer, on the Eurofighter Typhoon F2, they will assume a role in the RAF 's QRA air defence force based at Leuchars, in Scotland, alongside the Tornado F3's of 43 and 111 Sqns, however, with the Typhoons swing role modus operandi, all RAF squadrons will still have an A2G function so the tradition will not be completely lost and I am sure we have not seen the last of the famous badge.

6 Sqn Jaguar GR.3 in the squadrons 90th anniversary scheme

the flying can opener symbol can be seen on the air intake.






[edit on 30-4-2007 by waynos]


[edit on 30-4-2007 by waynos]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 07:25 AM
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Good post and ensures an important day doesn't go unnoticed.

I loved the Jag almost as much as I loved the Bucc, sad they're now both gone.

The Jag & Concord(e) showed, IMO, what two great countries could achieve if they worked together. Shame we couldn't do more.

***** Afterthought added ********

A question Waynos - what's happening to the old Jags? I do hope we're not flogging them to a 'friendly' nation as we know what normally follows such a sale


[edit on 30/4/2007 by Strangerous]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 07:30 AM
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Another great aircraft retired! I wonder how much the MOD will be selling them of for?



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 08:04 AM
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I think they will all go for scrap actually (my opinion only - I don't know). Not for any altruistic reasons, just because 33 years is a very long time for a supersonic aircraft, esp one that has operated at tree top height for most of that time. I don't think it would be worth anyones while to buy them now as they wouldn't get too many years service out of them.

The main reason I think this is because the RAF is already panicking over what our strike squadrons are going to do when the Tornado runs out of airframe hours as this is scheduled to occur before any replacement is ready, thanks to the demise of FOAS. The Tornadoes are, on average, about 5- 8 years younger than the Jaguars.

India has no need of them as they still have a Jaguar production facility that meets all their needs. I am unsure as to whether Nigeria or Oman retain any operational Jaguars but in both cases they only had a few aircraft each anyway and, of course, France retired the Jaguar last year. It is simply not worthwhile for any country to introduce the Jaguar into service from scratch with old ex-RAF ones, imho.

This all does of course mean that we have now thrown away two different types of competetive, up to date, recently upgraded combat aircraft purely to save money (Jaguar GR3 and Sea Harrier FA2) . I honly hope we make good the shortfall by buying every Typhoon and Lightning that we said we would.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by waynos]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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Hey.. even the IAF no 6 sqn operates Jaguars!
Might not be a coincidence then?




posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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just a note to returning readers to say the first post has been edited and a tribute video added, a 16R Sqn jockey shows off right at the end by pulling a wheelie right along the runway



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:10 AM
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This is the first time I saw a Jaguar loading missile upon its wing. Before now I knew Jaguar is one of few jet which can loading weapon upon the wing, but never got picture to show, this time, I saw it in video. How can I say..... who can share the photo I want??

The Jaguar is the only one, we called heavy jettrainer for RAF, whereas it Franch got just was a redundant attacker after they had already got Mirage F.1.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:32 AM
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Great Post and a Top Vid.

I really hope these beautiful jets aren't just scrapped. Hopefully they will find new homes in the museums around the country.

The vid really took me back to my childhood, when I would go to airshows and Navy days with my Grandpa. Fantastic memories. Thanks for that



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by emile
This is the first time I saw a Jaguar loading missile upon its wing. Before now I knew Jaguar is one of few jet which can loading weapon upon the wing, but never got picture to show, this time, I saw it in video. How can I say..... who can share the photo I want??


IAF Jaguar with MagicII:


Another IAF Jaguar with Magic IIs:


RAF Jaguar with AIM-9L? Sidewinder:



Magic II being loaded onto an IAF Jaguar 'overwing' pylon:


I guess the missiles on the overwing pylons in the video were all AIM-9L sidewinders?



The Jaguar is the only one, we called heavy jettrainer for RAF, whereas it Franch got just was a redundant attacker after they had already got Mirage F.1.


yea.. and thats why there are reports that they(the French) weak-legged out of the Jaguar program in order to offer the F-1 Mirage as a competitor.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 03:11 AM
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Like the overpylon gimmick.

Still, good riddance to bad rubbish.

What's so annoying about this plane? It exemplifies the fact that for the last 50 years we've been 1 generation behind the Americans.

The Jaguar came into service at the same time as the F-14. Different mission, but completely uncomparable levels of technology. 5 years later, the F-16. Jaguar ofcourse will be replaced by the Typhoon soon, a massive jump and far too late.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 03:24 AM
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Yes Daedalus, that was why the French also opted out of the various Jaguar upgrade prgrams and French Jaguar engines never recieved the increased thrust that UK and Indian Jaguars benefitted from, and were never as sophisticated in their overall equipment levels, which was a case of cutting off their nose to spite their face as the only ones who suffered were the French Air Force.

Visually, you will notice that French Jaguars never had the 'chisel' nose of UK and export models, which contained the LRMTS, (although France much later added a similar system in a blister under the nose) and also lacked the fin mounted RWR, apart from less powerful engines there were several other internal differences.

If the Jaguar had never mutated into a strike aircraft there would never have been the Hawk and Alpha Jet, as these were created to fill the void left by the Jaguar's evolution.


Like the overpylon gimmick.


That was no gimmick Steve, it allowed the Jaguar to carry two defensive AAM's without losing pylon space for ordnance by having to carry them under the wings (for examples of which see various piccies of French Jag's)


Still, good riddance to bad rubbish.

What's so annoying about this plane? It exemplifies the fact that for the last 50 years we've been 1 generation behind the Americans.

The Jaguar came into service at the same time as the F-14. Different mission, but completely uncomparable levels of technology. 5 years later, the F-16. Jaguar ofcourse will be replaced by the Typhoon soon, a massive jump and far too late.


I think you are looking at it skew whiff steve, if I may say so. The 'level' of technology in the Jaguar is directly comparable to the F-14, it is the difference in mission that you already mentioned that is the crucial point.

The Jaguar was not designed as long range fleet defence interceptor, it was designed for close support over the battlefield. Given that what would you expect it to have that it didn't? Other than perhaps a pair of RB.199's instead of Adours, but thats not a technology issue, its a policy one.

instead of comparing it to the F-14, look instead at its DIRECT US equivalents. Put simply, there isn't one. Because the US did not have the same mission requirement. The nearest equivalent is the A-4M that dates from the same period. the A-4 is a brilliant and classic design, but was ageing by this time, compared to the Jaguar it carried about half the load and was 300mph slower with agility about the same. So where is this obvious technological gap?

In actual fact the wing of the Jaguar, special responsibility of BAC and incorporating TSR 2 experieince, was the most advanced in the world at that time giving low drag, low gust response, high lift and high manouverability, plus STOL, without resorting to a VG mechanism that would have been too heavy and would have seriously penalised the aircraft payload/range performance. That wing was lauded as a work of genius at the time. So you see, the tech was there, but it was there in a form it was actually needed in.

You are also not taking account of the fact that 'five years later' the F-16 was a pure A2A fighter, not an attack aircraft.


Here's another picture for emile, four RAF Jaguars, two with missiles, two without. The squadron markings you can see are (reading from front to back) 6 Sqn, 41 Sqn, 54 Sqn and 16 (R) Sqn.












[edit on 1-5-2007 by waynos]

[edit on 1-5-2007 by waynos]



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Waynos many many thanks for posting this,

it is a sad time to see yet another great aircraft retire from service. as someone who lives in lincolnshire UK it is sad to see all the a/c come and go , but it is nice to see the Lancaster flying again this last weekend,....hopefully the same will be done for the Vulcan soon..finger crossed.

thanks

snoopyuk



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 05:25 PM
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Ah yes snoopy, I've got everything crossed hoping I will see the Vulcan in the air on my annual trek to Waddington


Incidentally, just seen a special report on the news about the Black Buck raids. Its the 25th anniversary of the first one today.

"a lone Vulcan bomber kept aloft by every tanker that Britain possessed" as the report said, good stuff.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:59 PM
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I'm assuming if they do succsed in the Vulcan flight it will never fly internationally eh waynos? Which is a bummer cause it means I'm going to have to convince my fieancee that we need to go to europe at some point. Anychance you know of some cheap resturants and hotels waynos? I think I'll be broke after the ticket
Seriously though I will NEED to see video and I will HAVE to come to the UK if they get it fly.

[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR

What's so annoying about this plane? It exemplifies the fact that for the last 50 years we've been 1 generation behind the Americans.



Two things stick in my mind about the Jaguar. The first time they participated in Red Flag (1977, I think), the Americans were a little unprepared for what they could and would do in the hands of the RAF. Of course, radar back had nowhere near the capability it does today. But the first the defending forces knew of the inbound Jaguars was after weapons release over the target. Those days, low and fast was the way to go, and RAF Jaguars practiced very low and fast.

The second was at the RIAT Fairford, at the first show after the death of King Hussein of Jordan (the show's main patron). The tribute paid by the RAF was a missing man formation, flown by 4 Jaguars. Nothing out of the ordinary, until I saw how many people stood at attention. Some things just stand out that way.

Goodbye Jaguar,

KW


As an aside, my brother was stationed at RAF Lyneham, when a flight of 6 Sqn Jaguars stopped for an overnight. The next morning, the Jag pilots got to their planes to find the gound crews had put saucers of milk by each plane's nosewheel.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
If the Jaguar had never mutated into a strike aircraft there would never have been the Hawk and Alpha Jet, as these were created to fill the void left by the Jaguar's evolution.


I was still sonfused by this point.
Please noticed that BAC145 is contemporary jettrainer with Jaguar, if we accept that Jaguar originally is a trainer only, then the question why RAF needed two kind of jet trainer that was same-classed simultaneously will follow us.

Another question I confused is why Franch Air Force accepted two jet-attacker they are almost same capability? I mean Jaguar and Mirage F.1, I think we counldn't use something un-responsible like "Franch are foolish" to resolve such question I think.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by waynos

Here's another picture for emile, four RAF Jaguars, two with missiles, two without. The squadron markings you can see are (reading from front to back) 6 Sqn, 41 Sqn, 54 Sqn and 16 (R) Sqn.





Thats the AIM-9 on one of those two a/c, but the other one(6 sqn)..
what missile is that??! No fins.. nothing!









[edit on 2-5-2007 by Daedalus3]



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 04:49 PM
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An interesting point to note.

"United States blocked an export of Viggen to India in 1978 by not issuing an export license for the RM8/JT8D engine, forcing India to choose the SEPECAT Jaguar instead".

Nuclear Stability and Arms Sales to India: Implications for U.S. Policy, Arms Control Today, Vol. 27, no. 5, 1997



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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Daedalus, that is an AIM-9 training round, a dummy missile with a live seeker, for use on exercises.


Emile, the RAF has always operated three tiers of trainer in the FTS units, ab initio, basic and advanced. The BAC 145, otherwise known as the Jet Provost T.5, was a basic trainer. The requirement that the Jaguar was originally mooted for was for an advanced supersonic trainer in the T-38 class. During its design however the RAF decided two things; 1 - an advanced trainer does not need to be supersonic (hence the P.1182 Hawk from Hawker Siddeley) and 2 - we really, really need to replace our Hunters with something modern and allow the Phantoms to be used in the air defence role where they would be more useful, thus the Jaguar as we know it was developed.

As for France, the reason for the Mirage F1 being produced was only to rescue something out of the dismal trail of wasted prototypes they had been building (Mirage IIIV, Mirage G series etc) the Mirage F.1 as flown in 1966, two years before the Jaguar (still mainly a trainer at this point), was actually created as a small scale test bed for the Mirage F.2, another abandoned project.

It was unacceptable to France that its one major combat aircraft remaining was a joint project with Britain and, as it turned out that the Mirage F.1 made a mean interceptor, it was decided to produce it as an all French option, the first production version flying in 1973, as the Jaguar was entering service. The ground attack role was brought in later as a way to make the aircraft more saleable abroad.

The Jaguar had already advanced too far for France to pull out of by this time (and Concorde and the bitterness over AFVG had to be considered) but naturally by the late 70's France was favouring its home grown option and this in turn led to the bitter opposition between France and Britain, promoting the Jaguar, on the export market.

A study of this history will also show why France was NEVER seriously going to be part of Eurofighter.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
An interesting point to note.

"United States blocked an export of Viggen to India in 1978 by not issuing an export license for the RM8/JT8D engine, forcing India to choose the SEPECAT Jaguar instead".

Nuclear Stability and Arms Sales to India: Implications for U.S. Policy, Arms Control Today, Vol. 27, no. 5, 1997


A curious point steve. That seems to imply that India preferred the Viggen. However, I remember at the time that this contest was a bitter fight between BAe with the Jaguar and Dassault with the Mirage F.1, the episode with the Viggen was only a preliminary enquiry, never a fully fledged bid, and so the US position over the JT-8, made clear from the start, meant it was eliminated before bidding began without even being assessed, leaving the two cross channel rivals to fight it out. There was never any question of India being forced into buying the Jaguar, they had a choice and chose it.

Maybe in a full competition they might have chosen the Viggen (even if it is a different type of attack aircraft - more in the Tornado class) but in truth no one will ever know.



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