Written language becoming the way of the dinosaurs?

Originally posted by more_serotonin_pls
Should it not have been 'blog? Don't tell me the ommisive apostrophe has been abandoned now?

Seriously - good point and well made.

[edit on 28-4-2007 by more_serotonin_pls]

It's the same as People saying Bus and not `bus.

Stu - I'm completely agreeing with you.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear - it's probably the cider.
If I recall the original topic was on written language quality - can you understand...

HI M8 - WNA MT 4 A DRINK L8R?

i bet everyone reading this can. It may not be Shakespeare - but it does the job. Let's get David Crystal here and see what he has to say.

AGAIN - I AGREE WITH YOU DUDE!

Yeah, I know

I just thought I'd get the "Bus" remark in as not many people know it is a shortened form of Omnibus....

Haha - Damn you , you clever linguist sod you...
But so we don't get this thread closed let's think about whether or not the simplification of language serves anyone's purpose. I'm very much interested in the whole EBE deal and would llove to study some extraterrestrial texts. In the stargate thread undo has made some interesting points regarding etymology which I think could benefit from some further research, just need to find the time...roll on the summer hols.
I've got some ideas on things here, just need to find the time to work on it.
I'm thinking simplification, time and time again... cases, gender etc.
I promise to stop using ellipsises too...

really...

MSP

Originally posted by more_serotonin_pls
HI M8 - WNA MT 4 A DRINK L8R?

i bet everyone reading this can. It may not be Shakespeare - but it does the job. Let's get David Crystal here and see what he has to say.

I understood about 70% of it, so not everyone can understand it.

I am not very good at translating TxT speak.

[edit on 4/28/2007 by iori_komei]

Seriously? What bits did you get? Now that is a real surprise. Think vowels.

Text messages have also been used in court with linguists finding accent and semantic fields specific to text messages. At least one person has been convicted of murder based on text messages destroying an alibi. Don't have the reference handy, but will dig it out and post it.

Originally posted by more_serotonin_pls
Seriously? What bits did you get? Now that is a real surprise. Think vowels.

I hit the wrong number, I meant 70%, but the ones I did'nt get without
rereading it, were MT and WNA, though the second is probably because
I read it as WMA, like the music format.


I have a problem with understanding simplified phoentic spelling as well.

I don't think the written word is in any danger and the internet proves that. This forum proves that.

Even "txt speak," if that's what it's called, is just a convenient shorthand.

There is no question in my mind that schools aren't doing such a good job of educating students, but then we've been asking too much of our schools and dumbing down standards for several decades now, so that's not such a surprise.

Written language, no matter how it might evolve, will always be important, especially in a technological society.

Aestetics might suffer, as might grammar and eloquentness, but in order to communicate with one another, as well as those not yet born, in an expiditious manner, nothing will get the job done as well as written language.


[edit on 2007/4/28 by GradyPhilpott]

Great topic.

I always worry when these reports come around claiming that youngsters are bastardising the language. A few years ago the worry was that no one was reading or writing. This was pre Potter, mind you and also pre text (ignore the obvious pun).

I'd be more concerned if kids just went quiet and stopped trying to communicate.

I love new words and we are fortunate that English is resilient enough to accommodate them into everyday speak and even into written form. Language is a constantly evolving, living breathing thing. Once we put it in a glass case and decide what is and what isn't acceptable form of written communication, we'll be in trouble.

Think of all the writers and poets that have gone against the grain in terms of style and grammar, as well adding to the poetic lexicon: Wordsorth, ee cummings, Bernstein, Whitman and Shakespeare, to name a few.

c m8? eng roxs, nuttin 2 wori bout - unLS U cnt rED DIS

Originally posted by nikelbee

c m8? eng roxs, nuttin 2 wori bout - unLS U cnt rED DIS

I can, but my eye's feel dirty afterwards

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
There is no question in my mind that schools aren't doing such a good job of educating students, but then we've been asking too much of our schools and dumbing down standards for several decades now, so that's not such a surprise.

I agree wholeheartedly on this matter.

I see kids that are 8 (I am around them because of work, often) that are doing their homework, and they are learning in a completely different way that seems substandard to the learning process I was taught. Phonetics (which I learned) are no more, and memorization of words/meanings is taught now in the "progressive" schools.

Their spelling test vocabulary to study are completely on a different level than what I had at their age level (lower.)

However, I think ATS is a prime example of the power of written word. With all the advances the internet has made, voice files are still secondary to the power of the typed message. I don't see that going out anytime soon only because of the complex barriers facing non-text communication that the internet in its current form allows.

[edit on 4/28/07 by niteboy82]

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by nikelbee

c m8? eng roxs, nuttin 2 wori bout - unLS U cnt rED DIS

I can, but my eye's feel dirty afterwards

I have to mark coursework written like this, but you're right - this forum is a great example of how written communication is not failing.
What worries me is that kids are being taught to pass tests, nothing else.

I spend time trying to get kids to appreciate some 'interesting' poems that an exam board feels are important instead of instilling into them a love of the language and the opportunities it presents.

Example of how the education system is failing people:

I did my my ITT following a Law degree so was a little older than most of my fellow students and did allow for some gaps in experience, but this took the biscuit.

"So, we're looking at Anne Frank's diary today."
"Who was that written by?"

That response came from from a 'man' who is now a head of design technology and highly favoured by the headteacher.
All I can say is : SCARY...

[edit on 28-4-2007 by more_serotonin_pls]

Part of my work involves making presentations of technical matter, as well as exhortation from a sales viewpoint.

I write office memos with pen and ink. I prepare my articles for periodicals. I do all this with a fountain pen.

Part of what ruined handwriting was the advent of the ballpoint pen. It takes a lot of work to write with one. Someone borrowed a varsity (disposable fountain pen) from me at the office, and couldn't believe how much easier it is to write multiple pages. Someone said that after a fountain pen, a ballpoint is like writing with an old bent nail.

My fountain pen, while initially expensive, is much cheaper to operate. Ink probably costs me 8 bucks a year or so. Compare that to a gell pen a month, and you can see the difference.

The proprietary projects I work on for my bosses are done almost totally offline, on paper. Harder to steal that way.

.

I'm reminded of the film Ali G in Da House when Ali can't decipher the txt toward the end and finally the guy just blurts it out and says, ' it was supposed to save time.'

Funny, because I use the term, LOL, when speaking to nerds (in real life).

LOL!

Originally posted by more_serotonin_pls
Text messages have also been used in court with linguists finding accent and semantic fields specific to text messages. At least one person has been convicted of murder based on text messages destroying an alibi. Don't have the reference handy, but will dig it out and post it.

The courts have 'transcribers' that input the details of a case into their machines. These machines are not in text messaging format as such, as the individual keys on the machine pertain to short sentences and the like.

The transcriber needs to accurately input data; leaving no room for error, for the purpose of retrieving this data, when later called upon by the judge to clarify certain points.

_____________________

The English language HAS evolved; I agree with previous posters. However, my concern is that the ever-changing technology used in communications, has curbed our speaking patterns.

We are continually modifying our speach to be on par with, not only, fast-pacing machines, but have integrated more socially acceptable ways of conveying messages.

Text messaging leaves plenty of room for discertion. In a lot of cases, I, personally have had to reply to a sender to inquire to what they meant in their short-hand lingo. I'm more comfortable with with complete sentences, as opposed to broken jibberish. Mabey that's old-school thinking, but I hate to see any thoughts lost in the constant deciphering of text messaging. Replying back to someone to ask 'what they meant' seems a waste of time'

Post Thought:

If the normal every-day person uses only so many words (dictionary) on a day to day setting, and the remainder of the un-used (spoken/written) words are building up dust on the bookshelves, Who decides after a period of time, to 'disclude' these obsolete words from future publications? Who makes these words - go the way of dinosaurs?



[edit on 4-5-2007 by TheDuckster]

[edit on 4-5-2007 by TheDuckster]

reply to post by dr_strangecraft

My fountain pen, while initially expensive, is much cheaper to operate. Ink probably costs me 8 bucks a year or so. Compare that to a gell pen a month, and you can see the difference.

Wow!! This is something we don't see anymore. Mabey in 'Coligraphy'.

I applaud you for making and taking it to a personal level!

I think it's unfair to label people who use 'txt language' in text messages and IMs etc as grammatically retarded or a Chav! I personally do it all the time on text messages, IM, quick emails etc but I know perfectly well how to use the English language the way it should be and do so when I need to.

I think (and hope) that as long as English is taught properly in schools then it will do fine. Why spend a minute sending a message to your friend outside in the cold to tell them u will b l8 wen u can do it in bout 20 secs?

[edit on 20-11-2007 by fiftyfifty]

Originally posted by TheDuckster
... in 'Coligraphy'.

Uhhh!!! ...sorry.

No bun intended, Duckster, but this is about language, so in the name of correctness, LC ??(just made up a new acronym), I have to point out the correct spelling is 'Calligraphy'.

When i came to ATS I didn't know any 'txt' hand, not even the common internet acronyms. For every second post I had to spend time figuring out what they meant. BTW, FYI, IMO I have deciphered, for the rest I'm not sure, not even LOL, though I have grasped the meaning of it.

Just want to say about making new words to avoid foreign words in a language, the post-war Germans went to great length doing so. To substitute the original French word of 'medicin' they invented the good German word 'wiedergesundheitherstellungsmittel', which directly translates as 'again-health-making-agent'.

I'm afraid it never really caught, so today they go for the slightly germanificated 'Medizin', when they go to the pharmacy.

[edit on 20/11/2007 by khunmoon]