Handguns for CCW

Any small frame .38 or .357 should do.

A concealed carry gun has one purpose and that is to buy you enough time to get out of the situation.

Originally posted by downtown436
I recommend something that you can kick some serious booty with, like the Glock34 9mm..... most people complain about the long barrel, but that is what makes it so darn devastating. A 1911 makes a good chioce (i like the 5" barrel 1911's) Para-ordinance makes good hi-cap 1911's.

How can you advocate a weapon such as the Glock 34 as a CCW? You do know what CCW stands for, right? CONCEALED carry weapon. How the heck are you gonna carry a G34 effectively concealed on a daily basis? Why not suggest a purpose built concealable pistol, such as th model 19, 23, 26, 27 etc? Same goes for a 1911 with 5" barrel. Why not a Commander?

The G34 was designed to be used as an IPSC competition pistol or as a sidearm for tactical teams. Neither of these roles specify concealment in their design requirements, so it was not taken into consideration when designing the pistol.

I personally would go for a Glock semi-automatic 'Safe Action' pistol.
My reason is simple - SAFETY. This weapon has the unique 'triple action' safety that can only be deactivated by deliberately pulling on the trigger - thus preventing ND's and one of the reasons Gloucestershire Constabulary use them.

I favour a nine milly. The easily concealable G26 is more than enough for your needs with a good capacity mag that takes 10, 9x19 mil rounds. This little beauty weighs in at an astonishing 26 ounces LOADED!

If you want a good vehicle pistol, then the G17 with it's 17 round mag is sufficient to stop a small war AND, mag extensions are available to take 19 or 33 rounds.

However, many shooters believe that 10 mil is the way forward. I'm not sure but some people in the UK are changing up from their 9's. If you want a big round, then go for the Glock 20. 15 x 10 mm or the compact G29. Only 10 rounds, but definitely great firepower.

I always used the Browning or the Beretta Brigadier - to each his own.

One piece of advice I will offer you. Don't go for the under arm conceal. Unless you wear the correct style of jacket with special cut, you'll stick out to the trained eye and raise suspicions.

Heed Paddy's advice - re concealment. Inner thigh holster is good, although I always went for the 'small of the back' belt holster.

S&W Model 66: 4", stainless, .357mag

I only get six shots, never needed more.

It doesn't matter what you carry, if you miss.

Your pistol will have sights, learn to use them. Practice, practice, practice. You can never practice enough.

The most important part of what ever weapon you choose, is you. If you are not truly willing to kill a person to save your life, then you do not need a firearm.

As stated earlier in this thread, CCW won't make you cool. Or bullet proof.

If you haven't chosen yet, good luck in your search.

Originally posted by BearAmerica
The most important part of what ever weapon you choose, is you. If you are not truly willing to kill a person to save your life, then you do not need a firearm.

As stated earlier in this thread, CCW won't make you cool. Or bullet proof.

Good point. It's amazing how many people are killed with their weapon still in the holster. They weren't in the right mindset to make the transition from a new situation to a life threatening one. If someone breaks into your house, be ready to damage the house. Target hiding behind the 40" TV that cost $2500? Be ready to shoot through it. Target outside the new car? Be prepared to shoot through the door.

Fritz also made a good point about holsters. How many people spend £400+ on a pistol, ammo, spare mags etc and scrimp on a £20 holster? Decent gun leather will make it easier to carry a Personal Protection Weapon (PPW) and conceal it effectively. After all, the more comfortable it is to carry the less likely you are to find excuses not to wear it. What is more useul - a CAR 15 carbine with 3-point sling, ACOG/Holographic sights, lazer pointer and 6 mags left in the car, or a 5-shot .38 2" snubbie on your belt?

Good point. It's amazing how many people are killed with their weapon still in the holster. They weren't in the right mindset to make the transition from a new situation to a life threatening one. If someone breaks into your house, be ready to damage the house. Target hiding behind the 40" TV that cost $2500? Be ready to shoot through it. Target outside the new car? Be prepared to shoot through the door.

Fritz also made a good point about holsters. How many people spend £400+ on a pistol, ammo, spare mags etc and scrimp on a £20 holster? Decent gun leather will make it easier to carry a Personal Protection Weapon (PPW) and conceal it effectively. After all, the more comfortable it is to carry the less likely you are to find excuses not to wear it. What is more useul - a CAR 15 carbine with 3-point sling, ACOG/Holographic sights, lazer pointer and 6 mags left in the car, or a 5-shot .38 2" snubbie on your belt?

True, I can always get another truck, I would have a very hard time replacing me.

A nice scoped 8" barrelled M29 44 mag is good for long range pistol shots, but I wouldn't carry it. Given the choice of a .22 revolver or an M16 for daily concealed carry, I'll take the .22. I'm only 6'1", it be hard for me to hide a rifle under my t-shirt.

For the weapon choice, also consider environment. No weapon can do everything. It's just a matter of compromise.

As always, practice, a lot!

So I will be 21 soon, and I plan on trying for my CCW. I have weapons already, and experience as well, but I do not own any that I would want to carry on me everyday. I was wondering what your preferred choice in a compact handgun to carry on daily basis would be. I will need help choosing so please show your input, it would be much appriciated.

First and foremost if you get you ccw remember to always stay updated on the current laws in your state dealing with firearms. Also train and practice realistically and on a regular basis for safety and tactical reasons. ( I'm not saying that you don't already but it is best to always mention those most important things first)

There have been some excellent recommendations for handguns. I highly recommend the taurus pt 145 mil pro. It is lightweight , very compact , holds 11 rds of 45acp and is very accurate for a compact pistol. It has a long yet very smooth double action trigger ( IMHO long double action triggers are safer than short single action or single double action triggers .) The pt 145 also has a very accessible quick natural feeling thumb safety. I personally don't like the idea of an all trigger safety like the one used on glocks for the simple reason if the trigger is accidentally snagged on something the gun will fire!!! However this is just my own personal opinion and many people do carry them successfully. The pt mil pro handguns also come in .40 or 9mm versions that are even more compact than the pt 145.

Here are some reviews hunting.about.com...
gunblast.com...

Springfield armory also makes an excellent line of compact XD pistols.

When you get your CCW if you are going to be carrying your handgun on a daily basis I highly recommend the pager pal holster. It conceals the handgun very well , it is comfortable , can be drawn very quickly and can be used with a tucked or untucked shirt remaining invisible requiring no extra "concealing" clothing. There is a video on the pager pal website showing how effective the holster is at concealing a full size "1911" 45. It is very effective and comfortable with my compact pt145 mil pro. www.pagerpal.com...

I also advocate carrying pepper spray as well for possible situations where lethal force is not necessary. As you will be instructed in the ccw training course : Do not draw a firearm on anyone / thing that you do not intend to engage with lethal force. (only if your life is in grave danger and there is no alternative) If lethal force is not necessary it is better to have pepper spray as a deterrent / defense as well as for self defense in places where it is not legal for you to carry a handgun. ( In some states this includes various public and government buildings.)

Another nice thing about the pager pal holster is the fact that you can carry a "cell phone" canister of mace attached to the belt clip for a totally concealed defense combination of pepper spray and handgun while wearing any normal shirt tucked or untucked.

Whatever your choices on handgun and holsters make sure to buy quality equipment and always be safe and law abiding.




[edit on 30-6-2007 by Heckman]

Originally posted by C0le
Glock 19 is what I carry everyday, Compact, 9mm, 14 round cap, accurate, and damn reliable.

Capacity is 15 or 15+1

I carry a G19 as well, or a KelTec P3AT when concealing the glock is not an option.

I never could get the hang of a semi auto. Maybe I'm just oldfashioned, set in my ways. Perhaps I should take my own advice and practice a lot more.....................Nah, I like my old, simple revolver.

My hat is off to you folks who figured out how to use them!

Nothing wrong with a revolver. The semi auto is a tradeoff in potential reliability over the revolver. I have considered purchasing one of those super light j frames for carry in place of my keltec.

My glock has never given me a single malfuntion in thousands of rounds though, even when I have TRIED to make it fail. I trust that gun with my life.

A small hammerless revolver in .38 special is my pick. Typically cheaper than an automatic and has a few advantages. One being that it doesn't jam, the other is there is no hammer to get snagged when being drawn.

Not sexy, but reliable. Which is what I'll take every time.

I carry one of (or a combination of) 3 pistols, a Springfield 191A1, a Interarms Star in 380ACP and a external hammer (can't recall the make at the moment) SA25 in 25ACP (which is loaded with Glasers). The 380 is the everyday gun, in the pants holster on the strong side. Wintertime I carry the 45 often due to heavier clothing making concealment easier and if I'm going into town (I live in the sticks) then the 380 often is worn in addition to the 45, in a shoulder rig, and the 45 in the pants. If I need complete concealment (amusement parks, Fairs, whatever) I carry the 25 in the pocket, hammer down on a loaded chamber. The 45 is always carried cocked and locked and the 380 is always carried hammer down on a loaded chamber.

Also remember that 2 legged varmints aren't your only worry, depending on where you live and travel 4 legged predators are also a threat, I've seen bears and coyotes in the city (yes, City not town) if there are woods nearby there are animals you may have to deal with, and a Black Bear less than 25 yards away is not a good thing. (especially when only carrying a 380) Been there done that. Always think worst case and carry as much firepower as you can, better to be over than under gunned.
BTW the bear encounter is the reason for the upgrade to 45ACP, at least it would have a fighting chance to down a bear.

Originally posted by thexsword
So I will be 21 soon, and I plan on trying for my CCW. I have weapons already, and experience as well, but I do not own any that I would want to carry on me everyday. I was wondering what your preferred choice in a compact handgun to carry on daily basis would be. I will need help choosing so please show your input, it would be much appriciated.

There are a number of things you should consider when buying a CCW gun.

I have carried a gun CCW for almost 20 years for protection and work. I carry a number of guns depending on the conditions and requirments. For daily wear you want a light to mid weight gun. Also I live in Florida and it is hot and hard to conceal a big old 1911 45acp in my shorts.

Daily I carry a Smith & Wesson 386PD in.357 magnum. It is a lightweight only 18 oz’s loaded, 7 shot and it conceals easy. Now being a revolver this is a good gun to start off with. But the down side is going to be the felt recoil. This gun is a strict carry gun and I don’t shoot it a lot. It kicks like a beast.

Sometimes I carry a Glock 26 , compact 9mm , it weighs a little more but I have more ammo capacity. The gun comes with a 10 round mag but I carry the 15 round G19 mags with a grip extension. But if you are new to guns an automatic may be more trouble than they are worth. If you don’t give the gun enough resistance when firing the gun may not cycle.

I also carry a full size Glock 17 in 9mm for my work. It has 17 rounds of 9mm. I even have 33 round mags for it. Some will say 9mm does not have enough stopping power but if you get the right round and you place the round correctly on the target you should not have a problem.

I also have a SW 340PD in .357 it is a 5 shot and it is hammerless and it works great in my pocket.

I also have a SIG 232 in .380 auto. This is a nice little gun with a thin profile but a small round.

My wife carries a SIG 239 in 9mm for self defense and work. It is a 9 shot automatic. It has a slim grip which works for my wife.

For an automatic a Glock is a great gun for a beginner. Stick with there mid sized guns like the G19 or G23 they are not to big or not to small. Also you can never go wrong with a SIG but they require a little more training but still a great gun.

For a revolver I would stay with Smith & Wesson, Ruger, or Colt. Get a .357 because you can always put .38 ammo in it but if you get a .38 you can’t put .357 in it. I would get a hammerless SW 340. You can get it in standard weight, air weight, or Scandium the lightest. This is one of the easiest to conceal handguns by just dropping it in your pocket. Plus it is a J frame weapon and it is the most widely carried revolver in the US. They make so much for this gun in the way of holsters and other stuff.

Now other things to think about is your weather. I live in Florida so I try to buy stainless steel guns to prevent rust. Also the weather determines what you can wear and how you can conceal your gun. Again in Florida it takes some creative thinking to effectively conceal your gun. I have inside the waist holsters, Pancake holsters, shoulder holsters, ankle holsters, fanny packs, vest, pocket holsters, planner holsters. If you wear a belt holster you need to get a good thick and stiff belt to secure your holster.

Also a gun is part of the solution, you also need ammo. Get good Self defense ammo by a name brand company. I love Mag Safe ammo, great wound ballistics and low recoil. Also good old Winchester HydroShocks are great self defense rounds for Florida, But these rounds don’t work so well in Cooler areas where people where heavy jackets. You might want Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Or the Ranger SXT/AKA the Black Talon. Other good self defense ammo is Corbon and Glasser Safety Slugs. Rounds like mag Safe and the Glasser safety slugs are good inside a house or trailer or thin walled dwelling the do not over penetrate. That is a big reason I carry Mag Safe because I have children and if some one gets in my house I want to reduce the risk to my family.

I could go on and on.

If anyone has any other question or comments feel free to drop me a line.

Be safe.

I am sorry I was wrong the SW 386PD weighs 22 oz's.

Originally posted by Jasestrong2

Daily I carry a Smith & Wesson 386PD in.357 magnum. It is a lightweight only 18 oz’s loaded, 7 shot and it conceals easy. Now being a revolver this is a good gun to start off with. But the down side is going to be the felt recoil. This gun is a strict carry gun and I don’t shoot it a lot. It kicks like a beast.

Sometimes I carry a Glock 26 , compact 9mm , it weighs a little more but I have more ammo capacity. The gun comes with a 10 round mag but I carry the 15 round G19 mags with a grip extension. But if you are new to guns an automatic may be more trouble than they are worth. If you don’t give the gun enough resistance when firing the gun may not cycle.

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't you want to shoot the gun that you carry daily the most? I carry a G19 most often, and I always shoot that gun on every range trip, at least 1 magazine, then break it down, in order to make sure everything is functioning properly.

And with regard to "starting with a wheelgun". Surely a wheelgun is more easy to use, and probably be good for a beginner. But if you only have the money for one gun, and want a semi auto, I say get one. Like either gun, just have someone who is either an experienced shooter, or an instructor at the range show you the ropes your first time on the line. From there on you will be fine.

And as far as cycling, with any of the glocks, you should not have a problem with cycling.(limp wristing). I have one gun that is prone to limp wristing, which is a Kel-Tec P3AT, and is a .380 round coming out of something that looks like a toy, so naturally the recoil is transferred primarily to the shooter. But I have held my G19 in ways to TRY and make it not cycle, and I cannot get it to fail.

Also, don't be deterred by bigger calibers. I am a 9mm guy myself, but if you find the gun you want is a 9mm, a .40, or even a .45 Don't shy away, get what you want. Although no matter what you get, I cannot recommend a .22 pistol enough to hone your marksmanship. Also with the glocks, if you get a .40 or .45 model, there are often 9mm conversion barrels so that you can shoot cheaper 9mm to practice.

Good Luck!

I am a big guy, as it were, 6' tall and 260 pounds. I also have been doing martial arts for 40 plus years. So, if the situation warrants, I would rather revert to that than a concealed weapon. Having said that, however, I carry.

I don't like .38 caliber pistols for the simple reason that I have seen several instances in my life where the .38 just flat came up short. For instance, I have seen the .38 bounce off of the rear window of a moving car. I saw a fellow take 6 .38 rounds at damned near point blank range, and live long enough to kill the guy with the gun.

the only real general saving grace of the current 9 milly is that if you keep your wits about you, you can let of 15+ rounds.

I like weapons that I feel are going to do the job, in my opinion, for what it is worth. I prefer and own, a S&W large frame .357 with a 2 inch barrel, a Model 22 Glock, .40 with the large capacity mags, and my very favorite is a Model 1911 .45 caliber.

Reason I like the .45 best of all, is that it was designed for the sole purpose of being a man stopper. It was developed to kill the Phillipono Natives who were messed up on the local dope, wrapped in straw bullet proof vests, and in a terrible mood about the American Military. The .45 is, as rounds go, ponderous, relatively slow, but with knock down power galore, and fatal more often than not when applied correctly.

There probably are as many reasons for carrying the different types and calibers as there are people carrying. The .357 has more recorded one shot kills than any other type of caliber. The .45 is a known man-stopper with a known history of effectiveness. The .40 is almost as effective, in my personal opinion, but with less brutish actions for people who arent 6 feet tall and 265 pounds. My daughter, when she was 14, could rapid fire my Model 22 Glock and get 12 out of 14 rounds on a torso target.

Star Man,

I did not say that I don't shot the gun, I just don't shot it as much as my other guns. If there is a prescribed amount of time that is to be used with a weapon I guess I missed that. But I feel that I have enough training and experience to know what is acceptable. And how you react to a situation does not completely matter on how much you shoot your gun it is more your training that you revert to, your muscle memory. What if you shoot at the range once a week for 2 hours , that’s great, I wish I had that much time, but if you don’t use good tactics during all your range time you could be causing more trouble than good. I know am not a great shooter but my skills are basic, but well rehearsed with thousand of hours on the range under formal and professional guidance.

As for the Glocks not functioning properly it is up to the operator. I am an ex Law Enforcement officer and I have seen many veteran cops have problems on the range and on the street with a Glock. Now remember COPs get at least 40 hours of firearms training in the police academy. 16 to 24 hours of transition training when working for a new Department, transition training is training directed by the departments specific weapons. and 8 to 24 hours of annual qualification. And 8 to 24 hours of situational and firearms tactics training. And after all this training some officers have problems using their weapons. They limp wrist the weapon, the have their finger on the trigger when the holster and shoot themselves in the leg or but, they shoot the ground in front of them. I have seen Stove Pipes, failure to feed, failure to extract, I have seen springs break, if it can happen I have seen it happen to a Glock. Now these are people that have a lot of training, more than the average shooter will ever get. It is up the operator not the gun. A Glock is a great gun but you still need to be trained how to use the Glock properly. Every gun has its own unique operating characteristics. On the Glock the Slide release is not a slide release it is a slide lock. Instead of using this to release the slide on a full mag you are taught by the Factory to do a hand over push pull to put the weapon into battery, this insures that the weapon is in proper battery.

I can’t believe you purposely use bad tactics in an attempt to make your weapon malfunction. Talking about bad training lets hope you don’t revert back to that under a stressful situation. I have never tired to make a wepon malfunction in my entire life and I don’t plan on doing it either.

Automatics are great I have carried one for my entire Military and Law Enforcement Career. I had a 1911 45 acp, Beretta M9 9mm, and a SIG M11 9mm in the Army. As a civiallian cop I had the Beretta M9 9mm, Glock 21 45acp, Glock 19 9mm, Glock 23 .40. Some of these guns were good and some were not so good. It depends on your preference.

As for caliber there is enough information to support what ever argument you want. It really comes down to 2 things ammo type and shot placement. I have experienced it first hand. If you shoot someone center mass and they still advance after 2 or 3 shots then go for a head shot or groin shot this is a common drill taught in law enforcement called the Body Armor Drill. I actually witnessed a Crack dealer who was shot 7 times with a 45acp Mac 10, I was the first supervisor of scene. As the parmedics treated him they counted the number of bullet wounds and it was 7. This crack dealer was in the hospital for a week and after that he was standing outside dealing crack in the same spot where he was shot a week after he was shot 7 times with a 45acp. I have seen someone shot through a residential glass window with a .22 and was killed instantly. I have many other first hand accounts that support either side of the argument.

Ultimately the individual shooter has to make the choice for him or herself. So good luck to you all.

Be safe.

Originally posted by sigung86
I am a big guy, as it were, 6' tall and 260 pounds. I also have been doing martial arts for 40 plus years. So, if the situation warrants, I would rather revert to that than a concealed weapon. Having said that, however, I carry.

I don't like .38 caliber pistols for the simple reason that I have seen several instances in my life where the .38 just flat came up short. For instance, I have seen the .38 bounce off of the rear window of a moving car. I saw a fellow take 6 .38 rounds at damned near point blank range, and live long enough to kill the guy with the gun.

the only real general saving grace of the current 9 milly is that if you keep your wits about you, you can let of 15+ rounds.

I like weapons that I feel are going to do the job, in my opinion, for what it is worth. I prefer and own, a S&W large frame .357 with a 2 inch barrel, a Model 22 Glock, .40 with the large capacity mags, and my very favorite is a Model 1911 .45 caliber.

Reason I like the .45 best of all, is that it was designed for the sole purpose of being a man stopper. It was developed to kill the Phillipono Natives who were messed up on the local dope, wrapped in straw bullet proof vests, and in a terrible mood about the American Military. The .45 is, as rounds go, ponderous, relatively slow, but with knock down power galore, and fatal more often than not when applied correctly.

There probably are as many reasons for carrying the different types and calibers as there are people carrying. The .357 has more recorded one shot kills than any other type of caliber. The .45 is a known man-stopper with a known history of effectiveness. The .40 is almost as effective, in my personal opinion, but with less brutish actions for people who arent 6 feet tall and 265 pounds. My daughter, when she was 14, could rapid fire my Model 22 Glock and get 12 out of 14 rounds on a torso target.

Sigung86,

I have a question why was the person shooting the .38 at the rear window of a car? Was the car advancing on the shooter or moving away from the shooter? Was the shooter in a process of advancing to cover?

I can safely say I have never seen normal bullets bounce off automotive glass. Even Ballistic, multi layered, bullet resistant glass still takes impact and spiders under the impact. A rock kicked up by a car if front of you will leave an impact and remain lodged in the window in some cases.

As for the .38 and the 9mm they may be smaller bullets but the have been killing people without a problem for over a hundred years. It all comes back to shot placement. Even if you have a attacker high on ever drug under the sun if you get a shot to the brain, spine, heart, the effect is almost instant. Everyday police officers go at it with suspects high on drugs they have been doing it more with the .38 and 9mm more than any round. And almost all of the time the .38 and 9mm has worked fine.

You can have the biggest gun with the biggest bullet but if you can't get a well placed shot off it doesn't matter.

the 45 does not have anymore knock down power that any other bullet. It makes a bigger wound cavity. Most of the time an attacker is struck with a bullet they fall in the direction of their body’s normal movement, not as an effect of the bullet striking their body. A fist will have more knockdown power than any bullet will because all of the energy is released at the point of contact. Where a bullet gradually releases its energy as it travels through the body.

As the bullet hits and enters the attacker it displaces the fluid in the body, this is called fluid shock. This is the effect that causes the body to react. And a good part of this effect is determined by the rounds design not size.

I am also a martial artist studying Judo and Jujitsu. I feel my skills are not good enough, I would rather go to my weapon first and then if that fails I will us my unarmed skills.

Stay safe

9mm vs .40 vs .45 is a joke. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. The thing is though, overall they all carry essentially the same "stopping power", it's just how it's delivered. The 9mm is a smaller round, but carries more velocity...likewise the .45 is a bigger round but lower velocity.

As far as police officers being some sort of bar of training, IME I have found that many police officers show very low skill, knowledge, and aptitude regarding the handling and use of firearms, despite the number of hours they have trained. Of course I would say this is a fairly low percentage, but my point is, that in my "circle" I have seen some of the more bonehead activity come from police officers, and not from citizens, or those in other branches of LE / Military.

With regard to your point on "intentional jams". I cannot see why one would not want to do this. At least someone who relies on a weapon for protection of themselves and others. You will not always be able to get in your stance and grip of choice when in a confrontation.

Here is a perfect example. If dealing in close quarters combat with a pistol, you may end up with the pistol on one hand, and extremely close to your body. Most would hold the pistol as upright as they could, but the problem with this is that the slide may come in contact with your body and prevent the weapon from cycling. Hence, you are best holding the gun somewhere between a 45 and 90 degree angle. Yet most people never practice things like this. Most groups tend to focus on movement, cover, stance, grip. Yet most do not actually teach "pistol fighting".

StarMan,

Some very good points and I agree with almost all of them.

My intention for using law enforcement officers was to show even with all the traiing they get there are still some real "Boneheads" that have no business being a cop or even looking at gun. Some of the best competitive shooters in the world have had no Military of Law Enforcement training or experience.

We do manufacture malfunctions to teach a shooters how to clear the malfunction, we would make stove pipes. When using 9mm we would slip a .380 into the mag. The round would fire but not eject and cause the shooter to react and clear the malfunction to continue shooting.

I also agree with you on the issues of tactics, Most are trained to shoot , but very few are trained to be Gunfighters. That is why i said my skills are very basic. My movement from an Interview Stance to the holstered weapon and then to the weapon on target is very smooth and fast, nothing fancy. When unholstering my non firing hand is up ready to block or strike and attacker. Unholstering is the most dangerouse time for a person when using a weapon. I rarely use my sights, i point shoot becuase i want to get the first shot off.

If you ever get to central Florida look me up and we can put some rounds down range. I have a nice collection and some class III stuff.

Remember it is better to tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Take care and be safe.