Head-2-Head: Clowns are Satan's Minions

Welcome to Another Head-2-Head Debate!

This round between semperfortis & seagull is a lighthearted debate with a slight humorous side. But nonetheless, these members are prepared to do battle like nobody has battled before.

(Note: Before beginning this debate, please review all of the rules. I have tweaked the H2H Rules ever so slightly, and all members should abide by them to avoid forfeiture.)

Participants

Pro - seagull
Con - semperfortis

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1. Each member will post an opening statement, two rebuttals, and one closing statement.

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6. seagull will post first.

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Thanks.

Howdy all.

First off, I'd like to thank my honorable opponant, semperfortis; for agreeing to this debate.

Thanks.

CLOWNS ARE EVIL.

How else do you explain John Wayne Gacy dressing as one? For those who might not remember, John Wayne Gacy was a serial killer of young men, who moonlighted as a clown. (Almost enough said, but you know me, not quite yet.)

It's quite astonishing how many people loathe and despise clowns. There is actually a clinical term for it. It's called "coulrophobia". I was not aware of this until I started looking into this phenomenon.

Clowns are evil.

Need examples?

Ronald McDonald/Jack in a Box/ The Burgerking. Corporate shills attempting to poison us with all that fat and bad stuff.

The Clowns from Dumbo. Abusing a poor little elephant? What's up with that?

John Wayne Gacy, as a clown: He looks evil, Mommy, make the bad, bad man go away.

Pennywise from "It". They're not only evil, they're aliens, too!! OMG.

Clowns are deeply identified with the "Trickster". The fundemental aspects of the Trickster are some of the following:

Deception. Unrestrained and uninhibited sexuality. Disruptive of society, Breaking taboos. Societal fringers.

Clowns, Fools, Jesters tend to blur boundries. This is the clown, or Trickster, archtype. Always pushing the boundries of acceptable behaviour, for good or ill. (mostly ill.)

Thank You Chissler for this chance to debate the heinous allegations of my worthy opponent.

Thank you Seagull for allowing me the opportunity to debate you.

Opening:

Clowns, Evil Minions of Satan..

Love them or hate them, they are a fixture in our entertainment, our decorations and our lives. Egypt’s 5th Dynasty, the court of Pharaoh Dadkeri-Assi, included a Pygmy Clown for the amusement of the Court in 2500BC. When Cortez conquered the Aztecs, he took clowns back to his Pope. Even the American Indians had Clowns to entertain them. Court Jesters and Fools entertained the dignitaries down through the ages.

This of course, in no way, refutes my opponent’s contention that Clowns are Satan’s Minions and Evil. It does however; establish that Clowns are an integral part of our history and our lives. That clowns have been supplying us with laughter for ages.

Clowns, Jesters, Court Fools, call them what you will, their function remains the same. To entertain, to remove us for a time, from the toils and troubles that assault us as we go about our everyday lives. How can we call anything evil that, even for a time, allows us the escape from the monotone we call our life.

Courage of the Clown:

The Clown provides entertainment of course, but sociologically, they also provide us an outlet for our own inadequacies. Finding it difficult to laugh at our own failings, our own disabilities and deformities, the Clown gives us that outlet. The Clown courageously stands in the spotlight and not only allows others to laugh at him, he encourages it. He transforms his deformities his clumsiness and odd behavior, into something wonderful and special; laughter and joy.

The Clown prevents us from taking ourselves too seriously in our normal, everyday endeavors, diminishes self pity and changes loathing to laughter.

Clown in us all:

Somewhere, in the deepest recesses there is a Clown in us all. Even in my opponent who so vehemently despises them. Slap-stick being the forte’ of the Clown, we have all tripped and then looked back at the ground as if it was the grounds fault we are clumsy. We have all leaned too far back in our chairs and fallen on our respective tails. All wanted to slide down that snow covered slope on a trash can lid. Every one of us has experienced the joy in making someone laugh, especially a child.

Take the success of the television show, America’s Funniest Home Videos. This is a popular show where people send in videos for prize money. These videos are nothing more than each of us “Clowning” and “Being the Fool.” We watch them with rapt attention and laugh until our sides hurt when “Aunt Sue” trips and falls down the hillside. The Clown does this every day and all for our entertainment. They sacrifice for us, so that we may feel joy, how can this be evil?

Colors of the Clown:

Reds, Greens and Blues dress the proper clown and add to his ability to amuse and pleasure us. Bright and festive is his natural state of being, not dark and evil. From the BIG red nose to his BIG red floppy feet, his polka dot blouse and his baggie pants, he is FUN incarnate and designed to bring pleasure, excitement and laughter. Is this Satan’s way? Of course not.

Clowns and Society:

Clowns have stopped wars, performed with Shakespeare and consoled Kings. They have been famous, Bob Hope, Red Skelton and Joseph Grimaldi; they have been both obscure and fantastic in their roles as laugh bringers. Find a circus; find a Clown, bringing children laughter and the elderly amusement. The Clown fills a role within our society and within our psychology both necessary and desirable.
From the ever loved and lovable class clown, to Ronald McDonald and of course Bozo, clowns have become an important part of our persona and are partly responsible for the return of the joy that is more and more absent in our lives.

Clowns and Evil:

Perhaps the negativity surrounding my opponent’s assertion that clowns are evil is indicative of a far more deep seated phenomenon in society today. Depression. Not simply the depression an individual can experience, the more insidious depression that invades our culture and our society. To find something as wonderful and giving of joy as a clown to be evil, is perhaps revealing of that ill that is present in us all. We are so surrounded by and drowned in the daily reports of violence, death and destruction, that we come to expect it in every walk of our lives; even the clowns. We ask ourselves how anything can be pure, anything be as full of joy as a clown and not be touched by the evil we expect. That is our failing, not the clowns.

So Laugh Clowns Laugh…

Now, my admirable opponent, the floor is yours.

Semper

I get the sneaking suspicion that I am greatly outgunned here...

Oh, well...

The humour of clown, mimes, etc... appeal to our basest humour. The humour at the expense of others. The others that are different from the "norm".

In their mockery of the lame, halt, or otherwise different they, the evil imps, desensitize us, attempting to keep us from feeling for others different from us; dehumanizing them if you will. Would Satan do this? Yes, yes he would.

Yep, outgunned.

OK. Most honorable Semper, have at thee.

Semper’s 1st rebuttal,

I get the sneaking suspicion that I am greatly outgunned here...

Ah my worthy opponent, never give up until the race is won.

The humor of clown, mimes, etc... Appeal to our basest humor. The humor at the expense of others. The others that are different from the "norm".

This misconception is all too common when discussing the psychology of the clown. Perhaps there is even some validity to this, but what is the alternative? We laugh to keep from crying, we expose that which is all too often hidden and reviled, and we give light to the most dark of our persona. Whether it is Dancing Dwarfs, Rodeo Clowns or the Big Red Nosed Clown we are most familiar with, they cause us to face that which we would rather avoid; our own inadequacies and shortcomings.

Do those that are not “normal” wish to be pitied or shunned? Of course they do not, yet that is too often the automatic reaction when confronted with that which we are not familiar with or what we do not consider “normal.” We avert our eyes; we walk to the other side of the street or turn away. The clown gives us a presentation that relaxes us and makes us face these feelings that are OUR problems, not those of the afflicted.

In their mockery of the lame, halt, or otherwise different they, the evil imps, desensitize us, attempting to keep us from feeling for others different from us; dehumanizing them if you will. Would Satan do this? Yes, yes he would.

I ask you this, is desensitization necessarily a bad thing? Would not the integration into normal society be an admirable goal for those that do not fit our neat little expectation of normal?

Clowns as evil:

John Wayne Gacy, a living embodiment of evil; and a clown. He has propagated the evil clown myth as effectively and as thoroughly as any living person, yet clowns live on in our hearts and the imaginations of our little ones.
Steven King scared the heck out of us with “IT” and the uncomfortable imagery of scared childhood; yet the clowns live on.

Children are naturally apprehensive and fearful of garishly costumed characters. When speaking of children, the fear of Santa is common as well as the fear of clowns. Does it then also follow that Santa is evil? This play on the adult’s natural tendency to protect children by exaggerating their fear of certain icons is common in literature and certainly effective. However, this creative license is not indicative of an evil nature, rather the impulse to be famous and rich.

Irony at its peak is the creation of evil from something as innocuous and wonderful as the clown. Yet as long as there are paying crowds, authors and movie makers, we will continue to deform that which we revere into that which we despise.

Semper

How is the mockery of the halt and lame which leads to the desensitization of you and other clown lovers a good thing?

I submit that anything that leads to the demise of empathy can not ever be a good thing. There is no such thing as "normal", on that we agree, but the mockery of those who do not fit into society as whole is only evil. Clowns, in mocking them, serve only evil.

John Wayne Gacy. If ever an epitome of evil existed it is he. Is it any wonder that he moonlighted as a clown? He attempted to hide his evil behind the clowns mask, thinking like many, including you my worthy opponant, that it would hide his utter evil. Since evil cannot hide evil, only accentuate it, it's no wonder that the evil within shines through so easily.

Clowns are the mask used by evil to seduce, in their mockery of all things they serve the forces of evil.

Please, Mommy, make the bad man go away...

Originally posted by seagull
How is the mockery of the halt and lame which leads to the desensitization of you and other clown lovers a good thing?

Not the Mockery my Clown hating companion, the lightening up of a serious issue and the taking of a very human reaction to its logical conclusion. Humor..

I submit that anything that leads to the demise of empathy can not ever be a good thing. There is no such thing as "normal", on that we agree, but the mockery of those who do not fit into society as whole is only evil. Clowns, in mocking them, serve only evil.

I am not talking the demise of empathy, just the reassertion of practical empathy. Perhaps the Demise of PITY is more applicable...

John Wayne Gacy. If ever an epitome of evil existed it is he. Is it any wonder that he moonlighted as a clown? He attempted to hide his evil behind the clowns mask, thinking like many, including you my worthy opponent, that it would hide his utter evil. Since evil cannot hide evil, only accentuate it, it's no wonder that the evil within shines through so easily.

Clowns are the mask used by evil to seduce, in their mockery of all things they serve the forces of evil.

What better place to hide than within the icon we all know and adore? The very fact that evil chooses the clown to disguise itself, is indicative of the good nature of the clown.

Please, Mommy, make the bad man go away...

Look into their eyes my friend and see the compelling good nature summoning you to join them in their goal of spreading good cheer throughout the realm...
Watch the bright red nose as it playfully bounces around and captures your attention..

Come one...

Join in the fun..

All yours now my Clown Hating Friend...

Semper

I guess this is my last oppourtunity to turn you away from the Dark Side, you clown loving fiend you...

But first...Thanks for being a good sport and agreeing to this debate, Semper. You being so serious and all...

I look into the eyes of a clown and see nothing but the spirit of a doomed soul destined for the lowest depths of Hell. Nowhere else can creatures go who mock those least in need of mocking.

Circus clowns, fictional clowns, legends of the Trickster in myth and fancy, all reflect the darkness for those with eyes to see.

Again...thanks for the opportunity. It was...interesting and informative.

Closing,

"Step away from the Clown mister and no one gets hurt!!!"

Seagull,

Remember this,

"Laugh Clown and the whole world laughs with you."

Clowns are the epitome of all that is right in the world. All that is still good, noble and honorable.

Through a time honored tradition, they bring to us joy that has all too often been abandoned, laughter, in a world with far too little left to laugh about and an escape where life demands all our attention.

The simple and undeniable fact that they bring a smile to our children's face, places them in a category of goodness and likens them to Angels.

A surprising fact about this debate that I will reveal to you all is that I have never seen a clown in person. Growing up far too poor to go to the Circus, the only clown on the farm was me, according to Granny. While in the Marines and overseas, I had several opportunities, but there always seemed to be some school, or some third world incident I needed to volunteer for.
I have longed for the chance to escape into the simple and childlike world of laughter that is presided over by the clown. Yet, my life has been too poor, too busy or too preoccupied. Let the clowns laugh my friends, let them give us their gift without a preconception of evil that is misplaced and perhaps our own psychological difficulty, not the clown's.

So, let's keep the Big Shoes Flopping,
the Red Nose Honking
the Endless Handkerchief Flowing and most of all,
the Laughter; Never stop the laughter that is the Clown..

Clowns Evil?

Only in our minds...

Semper

This debate is Officially Closed until our panel of judges can review the case.

Stay Tuned...

The Results...

Well that was quite the debate. Refreshing to see a hard fought debate on the "lighter" side of things. I don't know about you guys, but clowns scare the heebee jeebies out of me, and I would probably have to agree with seagull on this one. Clowns give me the creeps, and they are evil I tell yah! EVIL!

But my opinions on the matter are moot.

Who put forth the better debate?

Well, seagull opened up with some great points I felt. John Wayne Gacy, Ronald MacDonald, hell.. I was sold! But then semperfortis replied with some historical references which tended to carry a lot of weight. seagull was unable to really refute much of what semper had to say, and continued to reference John Wayne Gacy again and again. So while I agree with what seagull had to say, semperfortis did put forth the better debate.

Regardless, both sides should be proud.

To thank both of you on this hard fought debate, and your patience on a lengthy wait for results, I am rewarding both of you with 2,500 AP Points.

Thank you, and feel free to come back at any time.

This thread is open to comments from any "Fighter".

Thank you Seagull for the wonderful and entertaining debate!!!

Thank you also Chissler...

Semper

Right back atcha, Semper. It was fun, even though I think I got my head handed to me...

Thanks to Chissler for saving my pride.... I learned some things I really hadn't thought about, about clowns and the esoteric thought and spiritualism behind it. They're still evil...but maybe not as much...naaah, they're evil.

Anyway, it was fun. Thanks for a lighthearted turn in the squared circle of H2H.