U.S. Erects Baghdad Wall to Keep Sects Apart

No,

I'm making the point that overall we didn't have as many of these small regional conflicts when the world woke up every morning to a nuclear threat! I was wondering if you might prefer a nuclear threat, to all these small regional conflicts.

Tim

You mean kinda like this: Noble Resolve 07?

Nuclear threats and these "small regional conflicts" are kinda like comparing the NFL to pee wee football.

I would not prefer nuclear threats, to answer your question. Just don't think I would like to have any type of conflicts. Do you think the duties done in Iraq were for the best?

Originally posted by carnival_of_souls2047
We have American soldiers in Iraq right now? And they are building a wall?! What's that all about?

here's the newest news about the barrier Wall

abcnews.go.com...

a US spokesperson says: "Iraq Wall Meant To Protect"

The U.S. Ambassador to Iraq said Monday that the American military will 'respect the wishes' of the Iraqi government regarding a barrier being built around a Sunni enclave in Baghdad,
but he stopped short of saying construction will stop.

in an eralier post suggested that the 'wall' might be a need expressed by Iraqi PM Maliki, as something that must be in place so the US forces could transfer security of the Baghdad Provence to the Iraqi forces at the end of this year, 2007.............................

i was wrong i guess,

or else Maliki heard way too much bad publicity
about the 'Wall', and leaves the onus on the US as the sole reason the 'Wall' is under construction... thus excaping criticism and bad blood
from the rapidly deteriorating country of Iraq into civil war.

~politics in action, imo ~

New York Times

A doctor in Adhamiya, Abu Hassan, said the wall would transform the residents into caged animals.

“It’s unbelievable that they treat us in such an inhumane manner,” he said in a telephone interview. “They’re trying to isolate us from other parts of Baghdad. The hatred will be much greater between the two sects.”

As some members said here - the People of Iraq are indeed treated like caged animals. And with building certain walls, the Hatred between the Sects will just get bigger and bigger and nothing shall be solved this way. It is just a waste of money and resources, which could be used for something that would actually push the People of Iraq forward from this vicious circle of violence to a brighter future. Instead of building walls, somebody could start taking care of millions of Iraqi refugees for example - which are Fleeing from Violence to countries around Iraq.

Divide and Rule?

Originally posted by DYepes
If casualties go according to how they have been in the past few years, within another 25 years close to five percent of the indeginous Iraqi population will have been destroyed, coinciding with the arrival of many foreign citizens to fill the gap.

By then the remaining population, almost everyone having felt the sting of loss and destruction will submit completely to whomever controls the nation.

It worked in the whole Western Hemisphere over the last 200 years. Now we shall see if it can work in the Middle East, except now we have to do it by turning them against each other.

Cheers, I shall await my Condo along the Tigris in 2032.

And not to mention 70% of the youth going to school already has PTSS, that with the fact that 140 of the 200 shrinks had been killed..they predict the next generation is lost[probably going into killing people to]

Yeah well it's of no surprise to me whatsoever that this would happen. It's going to make things a lot worse. And another thing everyone is so anti on the Coalition troops being pulled out. We started this war the people of Iraq are sick of the US and the rest of us being in their country if they want us out it's their call we should have never gone there in the first place anyway!

This war was based on the fact of bad intelligence. We've gone an made matters worse getting rid of Saddam and to be honest it's going to fall into civil war whatever way we look at it if we leave or stay and I think staying is going to cause even more bloodshed and bombings because most of the Iraqis see us as the problem and are sick of the US and the UK and the rest sticking their noses in where it's plainly not wanted this so called wall is not going to do anyone any favours and it makes me wonder who the hell comes up with such ideas and do they really live in the real world or some kind of fantasy land?

If anything good comes of this, it might be that Iranians learn the truth about the Holacaust... that Hitler started by gating communities for German Jews, then loaded them off to the ultimate 'gated communities' where they were gassed to their deaths.

Then the famous Wall was built after the spoils of war were divvied up by the victors.

Here's a graph that caught my eye, and looks like it's catching their's too:

source: WaPo
'Gated Communities' For the War-Ravaged
U.S. Tries High Walls [color=#CC0000]and High Tech To Bring Safety to Parts of Baghdad


In some sealed-off areas, troops armed with biometric scanning devices will compile a neighborhood census by recording residents' fingerprints and eye patterns [color=#CC0000]and will perhaps issue them special badges, military officials said. At least 10 Baghdad neighborhoods are slated to become or already are gated communities, said Brig. Gen. John F. Campbell, the deputy commander of American forces in Baghdad.

I don't know how much of this is disinformation (deliberate lies for propaganda purposes), but follow the money to the war profiteers... biometric law enforcement industries should be profiting from this one.

And, a badge to live in a certain neighborhood stinks to high heaven of nazi rule in Germany.

Not to mention the national ID card much debated in the US and other so-called FREE countries in the world.

Originally posted by psyopswatcher
Not you Ghost, RR and Infoholic, whoever thinks installing another dictator is what will stop the civil war. Would a dictator--a new Saddam, consider segregation as a means of achieving peace?

I have no idea WHAT a new dictator would do. Perhaps he will disembowel Sadr and his cronies and hang them on his palace walls!

If it works, then it is better than how things are now. And since I live in the US and have a brother going back and forth to that forsaken region, I think a dictator is best.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

I feel that the gated communities as outlined in the article I have read sound like the best option at the moment. From what I have read, aside from bio-metrics, these gated communities are no different than what on would find in any Western country in the suburbs or even in city-apartment complexes, the only difference being that the barriers here can withstand blasts, and stop bullets.

Even the citizens of Western gated communities must stop at a checkpoint to get to their homes. And for areas riddled with crime, barriers can actually bring crime down. An apartment complex several blocks from where I live used to be a major drive-thru drug business. Every other night the police helicopter would be out there searching for someone being chased on the ground by cops.

Ever since the new owners of the complex raised a asthetically neutral 7 foot fence, the helicopters have not come back since.

In a place like Baghdad, where the crimes are not drugs but shootings, bombings, and murders a blast wall makes alot of sense to protect the poeple within. The citizens retain all of their typical freedoms. They are allowed to go to and fro, and carry on with their normal routines. In fact, it is also likely that house to house searches will be minimized or even ended given time in these communities.

Several years from now when these protective barriers have proven their worth, and violence in the cities have dropped to a minimal, the blast walls can be replaced with normal fencing with numerous pedestrian doors for easier access, as well as converting the military only checkpoints into alternative drive in locations to reduce time, and the soldiers replaced with Iraqi citizens employed with a new job to maintain the sense of security within their communities.

Many of you posting against this live in gated communities yourselves. Just imagine bombs and rockets falling around you on a daily basis killing your friends neighbors and family at least once a week. Would you not feel better to have a blast wall that can stop these weapons dead in their tracks and save numerous lives on a daily basis until the security situation on the streets outside can be brought under control.

This will also make it simpler for Iraqi forces to secure and maintain their own cities, eventually giving way for a self-regulated and maintained Iraq.

Reading through all the comments on this thread and on several others as well, I'm struck by a sense of wonderment and awe that democracy ever works anywhere. I know the people on this site, myself included, tend to be a little more outspoken than most, but the comments rarely ever lead to a consensus. How did we ever manage to settle anything in our admittedly short history?

What I dont understand, is that unless this wall surrounds the sect, how is it going to stop anything?
surely, if insurgents can get carbombs, and suicide vests into baghdad, into the greezone, and into police statiosn.. they are going to be able to hit cordoned off area's..

like i said, unless they are SURROUNDED, with only 1 way in or out.. its not going to work.

The divide between religions is going to widen.

Mortars will be lobbed over the wall too..

Its a desperate act, and like everything else it will fail.

So what are we to do next?

The Iraqis do not want to be confined to walls.

Is very obvious that when they united to protest the wall it shows that while they may be against each other when it comes to sectarian violence, they can come together to fight against what the occupation leaders are trying to do to them.

Maliki had not other choice but to stop the wall before the united people start going violent against the US troops causing a massacre.

This should be a warning to the US when it comes to listening to what the Iraqis really want.

Originally posted by marg6043

This should be a warning to the US when it comes to listening to what the Iraqis really want.

That is a good point Marg. But now what else might the US do as to what the Iraqis really want?

They want their nation back and they want to make the decisions for their own well being and the administration of their reserves.

That is what our government is not telling us, we are feed the propaganda that they can not handle their own affairs and their nation.

Iraq and the middle east region has survived thousands of years of invasion and decimation.

They don't need a greedy for oil nation to tell them what they should do, they know what the occupation is after and the same way they have united to protest the wall they will unite to fight for their birth rights.

These two events in my mind are related.
The bombing of the bridge,and the building of the wall, are the US attempting to divide Iraq up down the tigris.
Its a natural barrier,

confine the two bridges in adhamiyah

and there's no more points NORTH to cross the tigris, atleast no where 'close' to Baghdad.

That leaves 6 relativley CLOSE bunched bridges right on the greenzone that need to be administered, and 2 main roads near the universtiy of baghdad you've essentially locked the eastern bank, from the western.

Well this wall is for the best. Although they snuck one suicider into the green zone after several years, the wall has shown to be quite effective. So too shall this one. Call it the Iraqi Green Zone. Or the blue zone or whatever. Now I wonder what the laws are for owning property in Iraq and whether it is expensive or not?

By the time my kid is grown up, he can build a house over there and rent it out for some extra income.

How is this wall for the best?
Is isolating one part of the sunni district going to stop all the in-fighting?
Are the fighting sides going to make up and forgive while passing notes over the wall?

This wall will divide them further, cant you see that?

As for your child buying property in baghdad, heh... yeah... ya know he just might... so long as he has no real priority on tenants..

there is no coming back for Iraq, you surely cant miss that
Saddam was the only person capable of controlling these people.

If you want to see the future of Iraq, look no further than the Islamic State of Iraq.

en.wikipedia.org...

Google it for more info and press releases.

After the US has finished bumbling around and finally decides to withdraw the mass of combat forces, the false "Iraqi Gov't" will fall and this balanced council will rule the country, insha'Allah.

I agree,
This government will not hold, not one single day.
I half expect majoirrty of them to allow the stronger sect to walk in.

BAck in Zarqawi's days, I honestly expected them to vanish. hide in the shadows.

The US is using the violence as a reason to stay, why dont they ground all troops for 4-5 months.
Stop everything,

If America really is there to stop the fighting, they they will leave.
AS soon as they leave the powers rise up and in one foul swoop over run the government and boom, another Saddam.

Or, if the American's dont leave, it'll show the world the TRUE reason for hte occupation.

But I agree with you, Baghdad wil never be ruled by a democract, puppet government.
One day, through a bloody uprising, a faction will take control, and we'll WISH we had someone of Saddams stature back.

Remember the Shah.

But I do not believe another Saddam will come into power in Iraq. Saddam was a powerful man, but without him, there is no powerful Iraqi military since the real one was dissolved and this ragtag force was thrown together by the Americans.

The Islamic State of Iraq is growing stronger and stronger, collecting taxes, and building infrastructure. They are the future once the timing is right.