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From Anonymous Posts: Murderer's Kill People, Not Guns!!!!!

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posted on Apr, 20 2007 @ 11:15 PM
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Original Anonymous Post By: anon_109515
This is in response to the Dumbo Below about Guns. Here is the post...
Posted by anon_109680 on 16-04-07 @ 06:32 PM

To all you #ing idiots equating killing with guns, to killing using knives, pointed sticks, and whatever else.

It takes strength to stab someone. It takes proximity to stab someone.

Guns may not kill people alone, but they sure make the act a hell of a lot easier.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

If your trying to suggest that Guns should be outlawed just because some NITWIT Psychopath went on a rampage, then I suggest you move out of the U.S. Please move to a country where Guns are outlawed, Don't take other people's right to ownership of Guns just because you can't handle a little massacre!

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Sorry, but I have to agree with the initial poster. I, for one am tired of losing more and more of my precious freedom to people who insist on easy access to guns. Locker searches, metal detectors and transparent, plastic backpacks are prices nearly every public school student in this country must pay for your legal right to stock a private armoury. When someone you care about loses their life to gun violence, the price becomes too high. Hopefully, everyone else will come to their senses on this issue and at the very least, restrict the number and certain types of firearms in addition to requiring mandatory training, licensure and background checks if we cannot remove guns from the non-hunting population altogether. Civilians should NOT have hand guns! Seriously! Far fewer VT students would have lost their lives if the shooter came in with with knives instead of guns...
You can't tell me that is not true!



posted on Apr, 20 2007 @ 11:29 PM
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If I wanted to kill someone, a knife, a sword, a bow and arrow even.. hell maybe a home made pipe-bomb would suffice.

Guns are for glamor, and often are not as effective as other means ..

Guns DO make it seem easier for the killer to make the irrational choice to start opening fire..

But you can blame SOCIETY for that. Not guns.
Perhaps education as well.

Or the jerks and pricks that pick on kids because SOCIETY said they where not cool..



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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I definitely agree with you on your last point. There is far too little going on to stop bullying. I cannot tell you how many times authority figures turn a blind eye-- that is, until these troubled kids try to defend themselves! In a way, I do sympathize with those kids who feel like they have no alternatives after a lifetime of social deprivation.

Many even seem to be highly gifted intellectually. Failure by many parents & teachers to recognize & cultivate academic talent in children draws regular kids to gang up on these "nerds", "geeks", etc like sharks to chum. I suspect our nation's most brilliant minds resort to underachievement & regular emotional venting (anger/depression) as acts of self-preservation later in childbood, obsuring any good qualities from view. Then, attention shifts to "fixing" pathology. How would most of us feel if our superiors urged us to get psychological help? Would we acknowlege such an attack to our personal identities positively and take their advice seriously? Probably not. The ability to guage moral & logical consequences of one's actions is lost when pain from chronic, constant rejection overwhelms us.

Some fall at the opposite end of the spectrum as well & cuts to special education certainly do not help the situation either. The pressure to integrate all children at a given age into the same classroom (regardless of academic ability) & growing emphasis of standardized testing dissolve opportunities to explore other areas & contribute to the growing malaise American students feel about the education system here. Creativity cannot be taught. It comes from exposure to a diverse set of academic experiences & more kids fall through the cracks as areas of interest get brushed aside in favor of teaching to tests.

In Japan for example, social responsibility is one of the earliest lessons children acquire in their public schools. Each class functions more as a team than as a collection of individuals, each student has something to offer and others learn to appreciate that. I once visited a 2nd grade class there where one child decided to clown around. Rather than the teacher stepping in & disciplining him, the other students cried out, "Stop that! You are embarassing us!" (Dame da yo! Hazukashi na n da kedo! "Da-MAY dah yoh! Hah-zu-kah-SHEE nahn-dah KEH-doh!") & he immediately straightened out. We try to teach co-operation, sharing & helping others here too but it is little wonder kids get mixed signals from the poor examples set by adults in their lives.

True, if someone really wants to take others down with him, there are a variety of methods by which to do so. However, with the exception of knives (a non-projectile weapon in most cases) other methods are not as easy to conceal. It would be very hard to miss someone carrying a bow & arrows into a school. Although it is possible to cover a rifle, with say, a trenchcoat, a larger weapon is more likely to be discovered & can reveal itself beneath lumps of fabric, the carrier's change in gait or cover slippage.

I still would like to see a ban on all projectile weapons (esp. those that can be concealed) by everyone except law enforcement with proper training/licensure for all other types (i.e., hunting rifles). I expect many to disagree, but regardless of which option we choose, the opposite view results in greater loss of freedom, whether it's tougher firearm regulation applicable only to those who carry handguns or more local transparency in the form of additional security precautions applicable to everyone. At least, changes in firearm laws would only inconvenience a subset of the population. The way things are now, we are all at risk and we will continue losing more and more of our freedom to people who pose a threat to others as legal owners of firearms. Certainly if it were possible to ban these people from owning guns, we could reach a compromise but there isn't. Thus, stemming the flow of firearms is the next best thing.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck


But you can blame SOCIETY for that. Not guns.
Perhaps education as well.

Or the jerks and pricks that pick on kids because SOCIETY said they where not cool..


VERY well said !!

You have voted Rockpuck for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

Kudos to you, my friend.

Lex



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Far fewer VT students would have lost their lives if the shooter came in with with knives instead of guns...
You can't tell me that is not true!

I can and will. Fewer lives would have been lost if someone in that situation had the means of self defense.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
Guns are for glamor.

Guns are for defense. It doesn't have to be a beautiful gun to provide a means of protection.


Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I still would like to see a ban on all projectile weapons (esp. those that can be concealed) by everyone except law enforcement with proper training/licensure for all other types (i.e., hunting rifles).

That will never happen... not without a fight, anyway. I wish more people in the US would read, and more importantly, understand the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The 2nd Amendment makes it clear that no law shall be passed to infringe upon our right to own a weapon. The only reason why gun control laws have been passed in the past, is because the majority of the public is too damn complacent.

You are right, there are many that would disagree with your idea. I'm not really sure why more haven't posted in disagreement, other than people not surfing through all the topics here. You can't expect people to willingly lay down their arms just because people have a knee jerk reaction towards the VT shootings, or others for that matter. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
The way things are now, we are all at risk and we will continue losing more and more of our freedom to people who pose a threat to others as legal owners of firearms.

Christ's sake!


I overlooked this statement. How absurd!

The right to these guns is what protects your right to everything else. The 2nd Amendment is the life blood of this nation. Without it, there would absolutely no means of keeping the rest of your freedoms. If this government was to try to take away your ability to live as a free person, what are you going to do? Ask them politely to sit down at the table and "let's talk about it"?

I'm sorry to offend you, but that is ignorance at it's worst. You'd have a snowballs chance in hell at preserving your rights without freely being able to own a weapon.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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Infoholic makes a good point - even if he did misunderstand my statement - those who brandish guns like Cho did in his pics have watched to many movies, lost touch with reality and essentially use guns because they find it glamorous (and easy) then other methods..

your good point is the fact that with out the 2nd amendment all other amendments will no longer exist..

For example, take guns away and next year the President decides we need state-run news.... what are you going to do about it? whine, complain, cry, shout.... sue the gov? Please, you no longer threaten the government..

then they will take away freedom of religion.. perhaps only Southern Baptist will be allowed to openly worship.
What ya gunna do about it? Nothing, thats what..

Maybe the gov will start rounding dissidents up, locking them away, killing, making people vanish...... will you be safe? No.

Maybe they will then decide that all citizens will endure forced labor.....


Without an armed populace, there is no limit to what the government can do.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
even if he did misunderstand my statement

I obviously did misunderstand what you stated, and for that I apologize.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
I can and will. Fewer lives would have been lost if someone in that situation had the means of self defense. Guns are for defense. It doesn't have to be a beautiful gun to provide a means of protection.

That will never happen... not without a fight, anyway. I wish more people in the US would read, and more importantly, understand the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The 2nd Amendment makes it clear that no law shall be passed to infringe upon our right to own a weapon. The only reason why gun control laws have been passed in the past, is because the majority of the public is too damn complacent.

You are right, there are many that would disagree with your idea. I'm not really sure why more haven't posted in disagreement, other than people not surfing through all the topics here. You can't expect people to willingly lay down their arms just because people have a knee jerk reaction towards the VT shootings, or others for that matter. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I suppose it is because there are at least some who share my oppinion. I assure you, I do not expect the population to simply give up guns without a fight in response to the violence at V-Tech. If we are raised with the belief that guns should be banned, we will likely carry that feeling with us the rest of our lives. The same is true for life-long gun-owners and I did not expect that to change either.

I have a hard time believing that the Constitution intended to make killing innocent people with guns as easy as it is. I think it was a great idea to establish this right under the circumstances present at the time, but times have changed and it is time to update this part. Constitutional ammendments are not unusual and I expect lawmakers to aggresively target this issue in the near future. Even if the right to bear arms is not abolished, there should be regulations to ensure that everyone who has a firearm is qualified to carry it.

Too many innocent people are shot across the country each day because shooters are not in fact, defending themselves, keeping firearms away from their children, or possess adequate training to reduce instances of missing their intended targets (and hitting a passerby for instance). I don't expect NRA members to give up their guns without a fight but I would like greater assurance that those who choose to carry guns will not use or store their firearms in ways that endanger the public.

How do I know the guy living next door to me will hit what he aims for or that he locks his guns up in a place his children cannot access? Even if one of the professors killed at V-Tech had a gun, how do we know that he would have hit the shooter and not one of his students by accident? What if the professor's gun only added to the shooter's personal inventory upon his death? What if the mere presence of a gun in a classroom prompted an unarmed student to steal it from his teacher to hold the class hostage when he least expected it?

So many things can go wrong with guns and adding more to the problem is like giving every nation on Earth the right to have nuclear weapons. We forbid this because we understand that by letting every Tom, Dick and Harry have access to them, we are essentially trusting them with our lives. I do not forsee the end of gun possession in the near future but I do expect a constitutional ammendment as soon as our next president is elected. Many, if not all, are tired of inappropriate firearm usage in this country. It may not be fair to those who use them properly but when it is easier to buy a gun than replace a lost opioid prescription (as a cancer survivor suffering from chronic pain), it is time for change.

People may be the most dangerous element of gun ownership but since there is no way to differentiate an irresponsible gun owner from a responsible one, new laws to protect society at large are necessary. This is my point.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I have a hard time believing that the Constitution intended to make killing innocent people with guns as easy as it is.

The Constitution intended to make it as easy as it is to defend oneself against a tyrannical government, not to make it easy to kill innocent people. You shouldn't try to misconstrue the facts that way.


Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Too many innocent people are shot across the country each day because shooters are not in fact, defending themselves, keeping firearms away from their children, or possess adequate training to reduce instances of missing their intended targets (and hitting a passerby for instance).

That's called a lack of responsibility.


Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
How do I know the guy living next door to me will hit what he aims for or that he locks his guns up in a place his children cannot access?

Again, that goes back to responsibility. You'll never know for sure. But that's one of the pleasures of living in America. If we were to choose to leave our guns laying around the house, then that's our prerogative. My children have access to my guns, they know how to use them, and they know why to use them.


Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
People may be the most dangerous element of gun ownership but since there is no way to differentiate an irresponsible gun owner from a responsible one, new laws to protect society at large are necessary. This is my point.

I completely understand you point, however, I disagree with you on any type of gun control. Laws to protect "society at large" does not have to begin, nor end with gun control. If responsible gun owners are what you desire... breed them. Educate people. Don't restrict them.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
The way things are now, we are all at risk and we will continue losing more and more of our freedom to people who pose a threat to others as legal owners of firearms.

Christ's sake!


I overlooked this statement. How absurd!

The right to these guns is what protects your right to everything else. The 2nd Amendment is the life blood of this nation. Without it, there would absolutely no means of keeping the rest of your freedoms. If this government was to try to take away your ability to live as a free person, what are you going to do? Ask them politely to sit down at the table and "let's talk about it"?

I'm sorry to offend you, but that is ignorance at it's worst. You'd have a snowballs chance in hell at preserving your rights without freely being able to own a weapon.


Wow! I am sorry you feel so unsafe in a world full of guns. I would not trust someone so paranoid with a gun in the same room with me that's for sure! Case and point right here!

Have you considered traveling abroad? It's really not so scary to live in countries without guns. When I was in Tokyo, I was amazed at how safe it was to walk home alone at 2am. I would never try to do that here!

I hope I never run into you in a dark alley!
You are exactly the sort of person who panics under pressure: shoots first & asks questions later!


I stand by my oppinion! Guns in the wrong hands are dangerous!


Why are you so afraid of proper licensure? Are you afraid of flunking out and getting disqualified?
I will definitely sleep better once panicky PEOPLE and guns are separated!


Ignorance is failing to look beyond your own backyard so see how others solved the same problem.
I have no expectations of winning you over. It's far too late for that.
For your sake, I hope gun violence never touches your life or those of your loved ones. Your so-called freedoms have me (and my metallic medical implants) wasting time at every security gate in the country because everyone is looking for guns carried by hair-trigger, paranoid, ticking time-bombs! Thanks a lot for contributing to my freedom!


Hey, do me a favor and ditch the delusions of grandeur that have you saving the nation against it's evil, REPUBLICAN, GUN-LOVING government!


SR

posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 12:59 PM
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I got to kind of agree basically i hope it doesn't happen but nothing stops another person going out and doing a massacre in a few months, years etc.

I don't see the point of restricting and imposing people's liberties and freedom because things like this happen.. why you might say?

Because:

If say hypothetically guns are banned it doesn't stop someone from finding an alternative way to kill!!! If someone wants to kill people they'll find a way. Even if guns were banned in the USA people would still be able to get them people may laugh at that but i live in the UK in one of the worst cities for gun crime (Nottingham) and i can tell you now all it takes is having enough money to buy one and you'll have one.

This may be like comparing apples to oranges but a country the size of the USA would no way be able to enforce that kind of ban effectively IMO anyway.

People have been killing each other any which way they could long before guns were around and they will continue to do so i bet long after guns. Instead of trying to put the blame on the weapons that are used how about we look at the people who use them as already stated in this thread there are plenty of people who own guns yet don't use them to kill or actually use them at all so do the many have to be punished for the few??

Inherently there's a problem in society as a whole or flaws in the human psyche that keeps producing these situations and i'm sorry but innocent people die everyday wasn't there something like 200 dead in Iraq a couple of days ago?

You know it's tragic that people do die but that's the thing some laws here and there aren't gone to chase death and killing away or stop them until human beings stop killing each other over idea's, problems etc. etc. when people realise that they don't have to kill others to make there point etc. but that's in an ideal world and will never happen i believe.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I stand by my oppinion! Guns in the wrong hands are dangerous!


I agree. But, again, I disagree with you labeling me as paranoid. Cautious, would have been a better term.



You may feel content laughing it up at my expense, but I'm not swayed.


No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
---Thomas Jefferson



[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
---James Madison



[W]hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.
---Richard Henry Lee


source



You've made it quite clear that paranoia formed the nation you call home and provided for your rights to criticize it.

[edit on 4/21/2007 by Infoholic]



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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I agree also.

People seem to have this romantic notion that they will stand up to the NWO with their guns. But of course the NWO is the government, and it's already here. Hollywood has fueled this notion that violence is the only answer to everything. People think they can gain freedom by playing John Wayne, when the real freedom fighter was a skinny Indian guy in a dress. Who's only weapon was his words...


Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived
and done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi



Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind.
It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi



Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state has become lawless or corrupt. And a citizen who barters with such a state shares in its corruption and lawlessness. Mohandas Karamachand Gandhi


He proved himself right. Violence never solved anything, it just creates more violence. Civil disobedience is the way to go.

Do people really believe they could stand up to the powers that be with a hand gun?



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 02:43 PM
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here is some perspective, if some of you are so adamant that guns should be done away with, then you should also feel we should give up our nuclear weapons as well, because they are the same thing, guns cause murder, the military causes war, same logic, so to get rid of war we should do away with the military and nuclear weapons, it's the SAME logic..

Sounds silly doesn't it? but truly it is the same logic



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
If I wanted to kill someone, a knife, a sword, a bow and arrow even.. hell maybe a home made pipe-bomb would suffice.


Precisely, if you take away guns, it will just mean people will use a different weapon, and while it may be that guns are effective I assume that 7/7 was a bombing because it is easier to do than getting black market guns and using them. Getting rid of guns wouldn't have stopped that, in fact it didn't stop it.

Now technically in this country you can get a shotgun license relatively easily, and while it limits you to 2 or 3 shots maximum that can be loaded at any one time, I don't think many people would try and stop you if you were to go on killing spree with one. And we can still get them for sporting purposes such as pheasant hunting or whatever. But if you really want to kill a lot of people quickly, I don't think you would use a gun, its that simple, you can just fill a van or car with explosives, and if that happens, who are you going to complain to then? If they used a fertilizer bomb, are you going to call for a ban on fertilizers for the remote possibility that someone would make a bomb out of one?

Or maybe you could just petrol bomb a building, are you going to ban petrol?



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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But spouse every student on campus has gun - do you really think that going to engineering class in the Monday morning, one would think ' notebook, calculator, pen and gun!?

So - it's ok for campus staff not properly doing their job ( the problem with Cho was more than obvious) or security not shutting campus after 2 murders...or well dressed police force with heavy arms and nice black glasses outside - and inside somebody mercilessly killing those young people.


And of course - solution is to put more cameras. Ex Chaos Ordo. It is just a prelude to more control.



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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If you want to ban guns, only the law abiding citizens would turn theirs in!!

And then who has the guns?? Criminals!

Do you really think that Joe Q. gangster will turn in his "gat" just because their is a ban?

Cars kill more people each year than guns, should we ban them also?



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 07:15 PM
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Let's ban anything with an edge, while we're at it :

Link

By the time we're done making things illegal, we'll be back to squatting
by the ocean eating clams, wearing fig leaves.

Geez.

Lex



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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Yes the killings in VT were horrible, i am absolutely shocked, but it was a random incident, we really couldnt do anything about It no matter what laws are put into effect. Anyone can walk onto a college campus and do horrible things. It is very sad, but we still cant take away guns because it is people who are irresponsible and dont know how to control themselves. Whoever thinks we should outlaw guns if I kill your mother using your body, then your body is a weapon. I will outlaw your body and it would be illegal for you to exist in the USA.




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