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CNN: Dramatic increase in Army desertions

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posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 12:12 PM
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Phil McDowell joined the military because of patriotism he felt after 9/11, reports CNN. He then served a year in Iraq because he thought he was fighting for a just cause.

"I did believe it was a just cause at the time," he says. "I thought that was something that, our country was under attack, and [Saddam Hussein] was facilitating these attacks, and he was a threat to us."

But in light of evidence that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction and there were no credible ties between Iraq and al Qaeda, McDowell changed his mind and became "disillusioned," reports CNN.

McDowell finished his tour and tried to leave the military, but was "stunned to learn the rules had changed and he was being called for another tour."

So, McDowell fled to Canada, part of a growing group of US army deserters


It's a shame there's still people out here calling those deserters blatantly ''traitors''. The only traitors are those in Washington DC, the UK and other parts of Europe, those who claimed Saddam was a threat to us and had ties to Al Qaeda.

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[edit on 16-4-2007 by Mdv2]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 12:26 PM
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I feel sorry for the guy. But, if he broke the law and deserted...he's a traitor. I understand that maybe he felt "disillusioned", but when you put the pen to paper and agree to something, you need to stick it out. A man is only as good as his word...and this guy broke his.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 12:34 PM
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I will tell you who I feel sorry for. This mans family, thats who.

He is a coward and a traitor and his family has to live with that everyday.

Di-illusioned? SO WHAT. Grow up, grow a pair and BE A MAN!

You gave your word as a man, signed a piece of paper ( contract as a man ) so just be a man and do your duty.

Maybe the United States is better off without this man as a citizen. Stay in Canada punk. Good riddens, ey?

M.Agenda!



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda
I will tell you who I feel sorry for. This mans family, thats who.

He is a coward and a traitor and his family has to live with that everyday.

Di-illusioned? SO WHAT. Grow up, grow a pair and BE A MAN!

You gave your word as a man, signed a piece of paper ( contract as a man ) so just be a man and do your duty.

Maybe the United States is better off without this man as a citizen. Stay in Canada punk. Good riddens, ey?

M.Agenda!


you are an evil mind clown


the man was lied too, contract is void



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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I congratulate him for having the courage of his convictions, why should he go and kill Iraqis who have never harmed him. It takes a man to take a stand, unlike the sheeple and minions who will blindly follow orders and invade Iraq despite knowing it was an illegal invasion based on lies and Iraqis are no threat to mainland USA. Mohamed Ali was strong enough to show the courage of his convictions, he wasn't going to be treated like some kind of slave for the neocons. Putting a name to paper doesn't mean anything in the eyes of God. God can see that this is an evil war in Iraq. I wish that guy all the best and others should be equally strong in refusing to be puppets for GW Bush and the NeoCons.

And deluded fool who calls that guy a coward could do more than just name-call and volunteer to take his place in Iraq of the feel so strongly about it. Some called Ali a coward also, but how many of those who called him a coward were brave enough to go into a ring with him?

GW Bush himself is a draft dodger, so by the namecallers reckoning, he must be a coward also.

Here is another deserters tale, he got disillusioned, saw crimes the US troops were commiting and realised USA were the terrorist aggressors.
fourwinds10.com...



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by golddragnet
And deluded fool who calls that guy a coward could do more than just name-call and volunteer to take his place in Iraq of the feel so strongly about it.


I did my time in the service. Did you? Did any of you? I was a man. They told what needed to be done and I did it. I WAS A MAN - WERE YOU?

And Ali WAS a coward who was scared to defend a country that allowed him to become a millionaire.

Would he have been a star in a country led by islam - I think not.

He WAS a coward and still IS a coward.

You may go now.

M.Agenda!



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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He signed a contract,

This contract isn't based on your personal feelings. This war is legal, despite what he feels about it.

He shouldn't have signed up for the military to begin with. I strongly feel that alot of these deserters who shout out "we were lied too!" are simply playing a popular card as an excuse to not be redeployed in Iraq due to its rough conditions.

These card players don't deserve media attention.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda
I will tell you who I feel sorry for. This mans family, thats who.

He is a coward and a traitor and his family has to live with that everyday.

Di-illusioned? SO WHAT. Grow up, grow a pair and BE A MAN!

You gave your word as a man, signed a piece of paper ( contract as a man ) so just be a man and do your duty.

Maybe the United States is better off without this man as a citizen. Stay in Canada punk. Good riddens, ey?

M.Agenda!


I have to agree.. I think it is partly the army's fault though, they tell these kids right out of high school how great the army is, how they will get the best job and work in some European base or in Japan or something..

They end up in the desert guarding some god forsaken outpost or cleaning toilets.. it is no wonder it is not the paradise the army said it was, they just want to fill a quota..

But then again, it is also his fault for joining the army and expecting a free pay check and maybe a tuition rembursment.. not expecting to do any work.

In the end, he got F'd for sure, but he still broke the law.. he is a traitor, and your right, I do feel bad for his family, I certainly would be ashamed.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda
They told what needed to be done and I did it.


Such people used to be called slaves, puppets or minions, a blind follower of instructions, no brain needed, just do what your told. "They" told what was needed....have to laugh at how pathetic that sounds, willing to submit to "they", they say jump, the puppet jumps. Stand up and be counted as an individual, or submit to "They", do what "They" tell you. This time "They" say Go to Iraq, kill Iraqis, and secure the oilfields so "They" can make billions of dollars on all sorts of huge contracts. A private army for "They".
When the soldier explains to the dead Iraqis family why he shot him, he can say "They" told me to do it. When answering to God at Judgement day why he took part in the War on Iraq which took the lives of so many innocent civilians will God accept "They told me to do it" as an excuse. Is being a Sheeple an excuse for invading another country which has cost so many lives? I know what I would and say to "They". They can **** off and fight their own war themselves.
Henry Kissinger described the US military as useless dumb animals to be used by those in power. He was one of "They". Does it give the soldiers pride to know what "They"really think of them.

"They" told what was needed, no questions or morals needed, no room for human emotions of soul-searching, no inconvenient questions or thoughts, such as is the war illegal, was it based on lies, did Iraq have WMD's, no need for any brain thought, just follow the orders of "They". "They"must know best... well, at least "They" know how to make billions of dollars from military and oil contracts

[edit on 16-4-2007 by golddragnet]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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You know golddragnet once you are out of secondary school, you too will be subject to being a "minion" don't you?

You will have to be told to do various tasks for a small stipend of a paycheck. You will go to work everyday, DO WHAT YOUR TOLD and attempt to keep a roof over your head.

How do you think your parents do it now?

Lets take this down a level from military to general life.

You sign a contract to work for COMPANY XYZ. They will pay you 500 rokpuls a week. You show up for work and do the thing THEY TELL YOU TO DO all week long.

Come pay day on Friday you ask MAY I HAVE MY ROKPULS PLEASE and the man says NOPE. You say but we had a contract and the man says Yeah but you lied to me, you said you graduated 10th in your class and it was actually 15th so no rokpuls for you.

You see what I am saying kid? You wouldn't be pissed if a contract was broken? Wouldn't you be screaming COMPANY XYZ BROKE THE LAW - THEY BROKE A CONTRACT.

When you get a job and get burned don't come crying to this board for sympathy because you will find none!

I said good day, sir!

M.Agenda!



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda
You know golddragnet once you are out of secondary school, you too will be subject to being a "minion" don't you?


I am out of university a long time ago (spent a few years researching and lecturing historical subjects that interested me), I had other business interests, am self-employed now and a self-made millionaire, I don't submit to any "They" and I was always strong-willed enough to stand on my own feet and not submit to any bullies, "They"are legalised bullies. It probably gives you some satisfaction to imagine otherwise.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by golddragnet]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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I am doing all I can to avoid name calling here. I think some of you throw around the term "traitor" a bit too lightly. Has this man betrayed his nation any more than the government that he serves? Has HE placed his country in dire peril? What secrets did he sell and to whom? More or less than the last few presidents?

Yes, he signed a contract. I agree with those who say that you cannot reneg on a contract you signed. If you signed it, TFB right? But what about the army? Are they not betraying their soldiers? When my tour is up, I leave the theatre of war; that was the deal. If the army can change the terms of the contract, why can't the soldiers? Ask yourselves, who is the real villan in all this?



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda

Originally posted by golddragnet
And deluded fool who calls that guy a coward could do more than just name-call and volunteer to take his place in Iraq of the feel so strongly about it.


I did my time in the service. Did you? Did any of you? I was a man. They told what needed to be done and I did it. I WAS A MAN - WERE YOU?


M.Agenda!


you served in Iraq did you ?



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda
You sign a contract to work for COMPANY XYZ. They will pay you 500 rokpuls a week. You show up for work and do the thing THEY TELL YOU TO DO all week long.



theres a big, big difference,
Your not killing people here.
They signed up to defend their country and to uphold the values and freedom of the United states.
Iraq is an illegial war by international standards.
The war in Iraq is in no way defending the US, or upholding its values.

HAd this of been a real fight, against a nation threatening to wipe out the west, id be willing to bet this man would of sat on the front lines and fought next to everyone of us.

But Iraq is an illegial war, that no man should be FORCED to fight.
It goes against all convictions as a human to blatantly invade and occupy someone elses home, then go around killing them simply because they dont like it.

I feel every man that signed up BEFORE Iraq happened should be bought home and become the defenders of the USA, like they signed up to be.

All the dissillusioned puppet/sheep that still spout the same bs about Iraq, wmd's, terrorists and insurgents should be sent to Iraq.

Because clearly, you have no problem with killing people who are defending their home against the foreign occupier., especially when its all been designed to the rich, richer.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Midwest Agenda
You see what I am saying kid? You wouldn't be pissed if a contract was broken? Wouldn't you be screaming COMPANY XYZ BROKE THE LAW - THEY BROKE A CONTRACT.

Old geezer (I assume you are very old. Very old and unenlightened), I would never offer anyone a contract that obliges them to drop bombs on innocent civilians, I would never use a signature on a piece of paper to order someone to go to Iraq, use depleted uranium, demolish homes, shoot civilians and secure the oilfields so I could make billions of dollars.

The guy who left the evil illegal invasion of Iraq realised the war was evil and the government lied to him. Signing a contract is not an excuse for being party to a murderous invasion of another country. You want to blindly follow orders from "They". That soldier realised "They" were evil lying manipulators who betrayed the American people and are using the US military as their own personal army. Are you too old to see what is really going on? A convenient distraction to label the guy who left the army a coward instead of discussing the real issue, the war in Iraq was based on lies, the US admin lied to the troops as to the motivations for war, they lied to the soldiers that it was to defend the freedom of USA and Saddam had WMD's, but some have realised the war is to secure huge contracts for the neocons who control the US military



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Orwells Ghost
I am doing all I can to avoid name calling here. I think some of you throw around the term "traitor" a bit too lightly. Has this man betrayed his nation any more than the government that he serves? Has HE placed his country in dire peril? What secrets did he sell and to whom? More or less than the last few presidents?

Yes, he signed a contract. I agree with those who say that you cannot reneg on a contract you signed. If you signed it, TFB right? But what about the army? Are they not betraying their soldiers? When my tour is up, I leave the theatre of war; that was the deal. If the army can change the terms of the contract, why can't the soldiers? Ask yourselves, who is the real villan in all this?


Of course that is exactly what the mainstream media should be doing, they should be shouting it everyday that the invasion in Iraq was based on lies, and they should be saying what the real motivations for war on Iraq was. The US government lied to the troops about the reasons for war, the neocons who control the US government have been using the US military in a most immoral way and it is a betrayal of the american people.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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Now for the most part I disagree with the deserters, and think they should go to jail. But in this case he is right to desert.

Now Midwest Agenda you used the if you worked for a company analogy, I will correct your analogy for this case. Say you signed a contract to make 1000 sandwiches, and you completed the 1000 sandwiches, and you don’t want to do it anymore but you were told that you have to because the company can’t find anyone that wants to take the job. You have fulfilled your contract but the company wants to sue you because if you don’t make the sandwiches they will not be made. So do you think that the company should be able to sue? This is essentially what the army is doing to people now.
Keep in mind that the issue at the hart of this is the stop loss program. Even if you have fulfilled your contractual obligations and done your duty, the army is forcing you to stay on and continue to be a soldier although you have finished you two year contract. What about people that have been out of the army for years being called back up? Do you think that people that were once soldiers but are now 40 years old and have careers should give up their home lives, their jobs, their families, just to go into combat, in a war that they think is wrong?



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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I know a lot of military people (including my wife with 2 tours of Iraq) and many are not for the war, yet every one of them says throw the book at this guy and then toss him out.

You can't have people question every decision. It could mean the death for a friend, a squad, or even thousands of civilians.

He should have never signed up. The fact that he did and is now disobeying orders, that makes him a traitor by law. There is a guy here local to me that refused to go to Iraq. No matter what he said about the war being just or not in his eyes, he signed a contract, game over. The courts put him in prison for longer then he was signed up for.

BTW, just imagine if they let one person off.

We could get attacked one day and most of the military would just decide they didn't like the odds or they didn't feel right about the war and leave? Nope, never going to happen.

In a pinch there should not be a situation where a country or even a squad buddy could be killed as a result of something like this. They will throw the book at this guy.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
You can't have people question every decision. It could mean the death for thousands of civilians.



If every soldier deserted before the illegal war begun there wouldn't have been ANY civilian deaths...hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would be still alive, Iraqi children wouldn't be born with deformities from DU and GW Bush & The Neocons would have been left to fight that illegal evil war on their own.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by golddragnet]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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I understand what you're trying to say Zed. Obedience and loyalty are vital to unit cohesion and effectiveness. But what about morale? Belief in the justness of ones cause is no less important. This guy didn't refuse to go to war. He did what he was obliged to do, stuck out his tour and fulfilled his duty. That was what he agreed to do and it was right. He refused another tour, something he didn't sign up for and didn't believe in, and that was also right. Obedience is important but the last thing the USA needs these days is another yes man. Obedience is derived from either fear or respect. Which is more effective? Which is being applied?



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