F 35 Has No HUD....all HMDS (Helmet Mounted Display System)!!!!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
No. This was the first "shoot down" of an F-22. It was by an F/A-18 Hornet.

Wait, I just found the other thread. It was during Red Flag. Here, I'll show you the thread where it was on:

F-22 shoot down during Red Flag

Is this thread talking about the same incident, or is this the second time this has happened?

Tim

No. It was a separate incident. The F-18 was a dumb luck "I'm going to die anyway" shot.

The photo from the F-18 was not even a real kill, just a couple frames of the F-22 in front. It didnt mean the hornet driver actually got into a real position to count as a kill though.

Actually this WAS recorded as a kill. We only saw 2 or 3 frames of it, but from what I've read around on other sites, it WAS a valid kill. He broke all sorts of engagement rules to get it, and was in danger of causing a midair, but he got the shot and "killed" the Raptor.

While not exactly common, there HAVE been a few kills made against Raptors. The F-15s have gotten a few off, along with this one, and the one made at Red Flag that was subject to a thread here.

[edit on 4/15/2007 by Zaphod58]

I did read about the one killed at Red Flag, but it was more of a training environment kill, where the F-15 had actually been killed but was allowed to "regenerate" and there was some confusion stemming from that.

Actually from what I've read there have been several kills against F-22s. Not just the Red Flag kill that was so publicized. They haven't happened often, but they've been big learning experiences for everyone involved.

The two "kills" that I am aware of regarding the F-22 either happened as a result of pilot recklessness and improper procedures or of a training environment not likely (possible) in real combat, or both. Seems to be the trend when it comes to "killing" the F-22...

I don't have an exact number, or when/where they occurred but I've heard from multiple sources that the number is higher than 2. It's just that two were "publicized" as being the first ones. It's by no means a ROUTINE event, but it's happening.

The F-15 will also be upgraded with the Joint Helmet Mounted Cuing System.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
He broke all sorts of engagement rules to get it. . .

Speaking of breaking the famous ROE's, does anyone have a list of what some of these rules are?

I've always wondered what the exact Rules of Engagement for Red Flag are.

Tim

It depends on the airframe and the exercise going on. For the exercise where the F-18 got the first kill on the Raptor, he wasn't supposed to be closer than 1000', and was at well under that when he took the shot.

TR depend on the training environment (pilots, type of jets, weather environment etc...) However some are standard regardless in order to avoid mid air collisions (which have and do happen). In this case the Hornet pilot broke the 1,000 foot bubble as Zaph said and he was dangerously out of position and energy at the time of the snap shot. I wont even mention the other unrealistic features of this engagement... Anyway, from what I have read this was a snap shot, not a tracking shot (aka continuous/significant time of piper on target). In order to have a "kill" you need a tracking shot which is more than 2-3 snap shot frames. The F-22 was only in that position for second(s) before it handed the out of energy/position sitting duck Hornet its behind...

[edit on 16-4-2007 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
For the exercise where the F-18 got the first kill on the Raptor, he wasn't supposed to be closer than 1000', and was at well under that when he took the shot.

Wow! With a stunt like that, the Hornet pilot can call himself lucky if his military career as a pilot isn't his next "Kill"! At the speeds they conduct Air-to-Air engagements, he was risking the possability of litteraly killing himself and the Raptor pilot in a mid-air collision. That explains how he got the kill, the F-22 was probably trying to take evasive manuvers to avoid a collision(and rightly so) instead of worrying about the theoritical weapons envelops for the fight.

Tim

[edit on 4/18/2007 by Ghost01]

Actually Tim, according to one Raptor pilot was there (Langley) when this event occurred the Hornet pilot was not disciplined in any way whatsoever. His CO did not even call him in about it let alone do anything meaningful. The Navy personnel there regarded it as some great achievement forgetting how close this guy come to causing a tragedy with another friendly pilot. Hence the unprofessionalism afterwards of posting the HUD frames on the net as some sort of trophy shot, probably even illegal but eh... I guess the Navy has a different mentally and when it concerns AF aircraft...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The Navy personnel there regarded it as some great achievement forgetting how close this guy come to causing a tragedy with another friendly pilot. Hence the unprofessionalism afterwards of posting the HUD frames on the net as some sort of trophy shot, probably even illegal but eh... I guess the Navy has a different mentally and when it concerns AF aircraft...

Why are the Air Force and the Navy so rediculas in their competitive ways? If I wouldn't know any better, I would ask if this guy realized that both He and the Raptor Pilot are American. When push comes to shove, they both fight in defense of the same country.

I am shocked that these people, who are responcible for defending our country could be so childish in their behavior.

Tim

My understanding is that it was the F-18 pilots last flight, and he was determined to get a shot off on the F-22. He pushed too far, and since nothing came of it, he wasn't OBVIOUSLY disciplined. He could have gone before his CO and been counseled or he could have had some other discipline against him.

Back on topic I found some more info on the helmet systems today on the Boeing sit and guess what Mondo? Your fav F-18E/F's are getting the system! same with the 16 and 15.

Under the contract awarded April 4, Boeing will equip U.S. Air Force (USAF) and Air National Guard F-15 Eagles, USAF F-16 Fighting Falcons, U.S. Navy F/A-18E/F Super Hornets as well as eight international customers with the innovative system and associated components. The contract is the company's fourth JHMCS full-rate production order.
"U.S. Air Force and Navy pilots tell us that they love this system, which greatly increases their combat capability," said Phil King, Boeing JHMCS program manager. "The proven success of JHMCS in the field continues to result in strong customer demand."

www.boeing.com...

Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

Yeah I have to say its a tech level jump and does look a bit dr who, i would like to put one on and see what it looks like inside. I like how its gelded on the mask and how it flips up with the whole system, nice to see that most of our planes are getting them.

reply to post by Canada_EH


HMDS are being made for the F/A-18 Hornet. Development is in on the MA/NH border.. I am interviewing for the position tomorrow. C++, 3D graphics, and RS-232 communications are the requirements.