Are you prepared to dine upon your neighbors?

Alright, time for me to weigh in with my opinion, which was backed by our resident Arthropod expert at my workplace...

This "problem" has been blown way out of proportion....

Realistically, we have had no impact on honey production, nor any production of foods related to bees....especially domestically....Other factors such as varied weather patterns make more of an impact...

Bee populations fluctuate greatly year to year, as does most species....These problems people are reporting are simply overstatements, or they don't know what they are talking about....

Honeybees are notorious for chewing holes in the bottom of plants to release the nectar, thus, never receiving any pollen whatsoever...Pollination occurs naturally through other meants such as wind and other insects...

Bees are also the number one killer of humans in the US from an insect standpoint, so if a couple turn up missing, that's okay.....

Let's not start seeing this as a sign of the end times, but as what it really is, a naturally occuring event....

Sure, the Earth is constantly going through changes, but things adapt. There is no reason to be overly concerned....

your relaxed stance might have a point if the accompanying symptoms were inventions by doomsellers (which i cannot verify at this point).

Most of what you have posted is not even close to correct. The massive loss of Honeybee's worldwide is huge to say the least. I can ascertain by your comments that you know nothing of honey bees, nor do you know anything in regards to pollination of fruit crops.

Most farmers rent hives during the part of the season where they require pollination and the rent has more than doubled, also availability of hives has dropped considerably.

I would suggest that you resident expert friend leave his house, get out in the world of agriculture and apiculture to see what is truly transpiring. Just because he know about insects does not make him an expert on what is transpiring in the apiculture society and market.

And bees are the number one killer of humans from an insect standpoint? You are really piling it on now. The only way a person would die from a bee sting is because they are allergic and there body would start to produce excessive histamines. And anyone that is allergic is never far from their shot of epinephrine which counters the reaction.

Most people are not stung by bees but by hornets or yellow jackets which can sting repeatedly until they are done, but a honeybee can only sting once and then dies, because of the barb on their stinger. Once the barb is inserted the honeybee cannot leave the person they stung without pulling its intestines out, at which they die shortly after. Also a bee stinger/sac that is in the skin must not be pulled out with finger because this will only pump more venom in, the stinger must be scraped with a flat object across the skin, lifting the the stinger/sac up and out.

Originally posted by Azazelus
Alright, time for me to weigh in with my opinion, which was backed by our resident Arthropod expert at my workplace...

This "problem" has been blown way out of proportion....

Realistically, we have had no impact on honey production, nor any production of foods related to bees....especially domestically....Other factors such as varied weather patterns make more of an impact...

Bee populations fluctuate greatly year to year, as does most species....These problems people are reporting are simply overstatements, or they don't know what they are talking about....

Honeybees are notorious for chewing holes in the bottom of plants to release the nectar, thus, never receiving any pollen whatsoever...Pollination occurs naturally through other meants such as wind and other insects...

Bees are also the number one killer of humans in the US from an insect standpoint, so if a couple turn up missing, that's okay.....

Let's not start seeing this as a sign of the end times, but as what it really is, a naturally occuring event....

Sure, the Earth is constantly going through changes, but things adapt. There is no reason to be overly concerned....

[edit on 11-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Actually, I stated that bees are the number one killer of humans in the US, from an insect standpoint...

Go here for one of many sources that can be pulled up quickly on any search engine....

Also, to say that I know nothing of agriculture is laughable...I am from the south, in a VERY LARGE agricultural area, not to mention that half of my family are prominent farmers, NONE of which have ever "shipped in" bees for pollination.....

As for my resident expert..well, I do work at a SCIENCE MUSEUM.......I'm sure this scientist has no clue what he is talking about....

I suggest you google "pollination" methods, as even Wikipedia lists insects BESIDES bees, with biotic (animals including insects, birds and mammals) making up 80% of pollination, while wind and rain make up the other 20%.....

Next time, before you try and make a mockery of a situation, make sure you do YOUR research. Stop fear mongering......and spreading disinformation.....



[edit on 11-4-2007 by Azazelus]

Azazelus
I disagree with you, but do not wish to offend you. You really have to see it for yourself. It really does seem to be happening. You have perhaps not read all the testifying in the four pages of posts. Your area just isn't affected yet, but probably will be. Call your local or state bee keeper association and ask them.... get it from the source. I think your expert ought do the same.

Here's the point. Even if you don't believe it, you should be aware now what the consequences would be were it to be true. So, I believe you would agree, at least, it could be a very important issue. Don't deny it... just keep it in mind. What if?

And one more thing. How should it be treated and worked around were it true? Causes are one thing. Solutions, SOLUTIONS, are another. Where do we go from here, who in power will listen. Think-tank it.

As a scientist, the idea of an expanding Earth blew me out of my boat. It doesn't really confound all of science, but damn...

Originally posted by Anubis Kanubis
As a scientist, the idea of an expanding Earth blew me out of my boat. It doesn't really confound all of science, but damn...

Yes the so called 'well established' theory of continental drift is not all that established. It is a fairly recent theory put forth within the last 100 years. For a basis theory that is relatively recent.

If bees are simply disappearing from the hives, it would seem that the bees are not reproducing, right? So that lowers the population even more and makes it that much harder for the population to replenish itself.

Apparently the problem is serious enough that almond farmers in California have had a much lower amount of blooms being pollinated, resulting in lower almond yields. So the almond farmers contacted Congress, who is "looking into it."

Here is some information pertaining to the importance of honeybees and pollination so you don't spread anymore disinformation and embarrass yourself.

Originally posted by Azazelus
Next time, before you try and make a mockery of a situation, make sure you do YOUR research. Stop fear mongering......and spreading disinformation.....

Honeybees & Their Importance in Pollination

Honeybees are the most important pollinators of agricultural and horticultural crops. Most fruit, small seed and many vegetable crops require pollination for the production of economic yields.

Pollination means the transfer of pollen from the male part of the flower, the anthers, to the receptive female part, the stigma. Pollination is a pre-requisite to the fertilisation of ovules within flowers which leads to the growth of seeds and fruit. Fertilisation occurs when the pollen grains on the stigma germinate and grow down the stem of the stigma (the style). The sperms of the pollen unite with the ovules in the ovary of the flower and subsequently produce seed.

The value of the honeybee as a pollinator is far greater than its value as a honey producer.

Originally posted by Azazelus
Also, to say that I know nothing of agriculture is laughable...I am from the south, in a VERY LARGE agricultural area, not to mention that half of my family are prominent farmers, NONE of which have ever "shipped in" bees for pollination.....

Prices/Costs
The price per hive that a beekeeper can charge for a pollination service will vary depending on a number of factors. The price could range from $80-$150 depending on the time of the year, extra work required and honey flow foregone. If a beekeeper has to forego a major honey flow, such as leatherwood, a high price may be applicable.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by Realtruth]

The American bee population took a serious hit during the 90's thanks to the invasion of two Asian mites that invaded bee hives here. I personally know of several large wild hives that were wiped out during that time. For awhile they seemed to be making a comeback but whatever it is that is hitting them now is hitting them hard. Last year I had bees in my garden but I also had to pollinate a lot of plants myself. I would say that bees in my garden were down 60%.

I found some excellent articles via my apiarist community site in reference to what is transpiring with the honeybees, crops, pollination, etc. Right now farmers are very worried about this strange phenomenon.

U.S. Bee Colonies Decimated by Mysterious Ailment

By Jon Hurdle

PHILADELPHIA, Feb 12 (Reuters) - A mysterious disease is killing off U.S. honeybees, threatening to disrupt pollination of a range of crops and costing beekeepers hundreds of thousands of dollars, industry experts said on Monday.

Beekeepers in 22 states have reported losses of up to 80 percent of their colonies in recent weeks, leaving many unable to rent the bees to farmers of crops such as almonds and, later in the year, apples and blueberries.

"It's unusual in terms of the widespread distribution and severity," said Jerry Bromenshenk, a professor at the University of Montana at Missoula and chief executive of Bee Alert Technology, a company monitoring the problem.

Dave Hackenberg, a Pennsylvania beekeeper who reported the so-called Colony Collapse Disorder to researchers at Pennsylvania State University in November, said he had lost about 2,000 hives, which can each contain around 50,000 bees during the summer months.

He estimated that he will lose as much as $350,000 after accounting for lost income and the cost of replacing bees.

Disappearing Honeybees Concern Beekeepers and Farmers

Farmers in the United States say they are growing increasingly concerned about a mysterious shortage of honeybees. The U.S. government says it is investigating a dramatic decline in the bee population over recent months, and Congress has held a hearing on the issue. Bees are used not only to produce honey, but many crops depend on the tiny creatures for the pollination process. Steve Mort reports from a honey farm in the southern U.S. state of Florida.

Grover there is so much speculation/theories etc...but this time the experts, farmers, and the entire apiculture is taking this seriously. You are correct about the mites, honeybees have been taken a beating for quite some time not to mention fungal diseases too.

Originally posted by grover
The American bee population took a serious hit during the 90's thanks to the invasion of two Asian mites that invaded bee hives here. I personally know of several large wild hives that were wiped out during that time. For awhile they seemed to be making a comeback but whatever it is that is hitting them now is hitting them hard. Last year I had bees in my garden but I also had to pollinate a lot of plants myself. I would say that bees in my garden were down 60%.

After everything starts greening back up again (it's a bit brown looking here after a late freeze in South Carolina), I'll be on the lookout for bees. Last year I saw tons of bees around some plants and shrubs in my neighborhood. I think one year a holly bush was so busy with bees that I could hear the buzzing half way across my yard. I'm wondering what areas of the US or elsewhere are not seriously affected.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I guess it'll get a lot of attention - when it's too late.

That's my bet too...the media doesn't care to report on 'insects' as they would say. It's pathetic the way we let things go these days. And I also blame this on genetically engineered food varieties that are 'seedless' and they consider the bees their enemies, so much they have tried to ban them from their orchards. That's why I'll always go for organic varieties WITH seeds, the way nature intended.

westernfarmpress.com...

Seedless Fruits Make Others Needless

Originally posted by forestlady
If bees are simply disappearing from the hives, it would seem that the bees are not reproducing, right? So that lowers the population even more and makes it that much harder for the population to replenish itself.

only the queen lays eggs, so unless you lose the queen or all supplies, you're basically fine unless the hive is invaded.

Originally posted by Azazelus
I suggest you google "pollination" methods, as even Wikipedia lists insects BESIDES bees, with biotic (animals including insects, birds and mammals) making up 80% of pollination, while wind and rain make up the other 20%.....

the question is whether we would notice a decline of these other insects if it occurred in parallel, seeing as other foraging insects are in all likelhood subjected to the same kind of environment as bees and therefore at similar risk. many food crops don't need insects, but the entire ecosystem does. on the long run, even a lot of tree varieties would die out in the wild.

Great post! I am with you on this one I personally believe it is the Genetically Modified crops, seeds they are pushing on everyone.


Did you all know that it is nearly impossible now to buy bulk seeds from a granary that are not GM? Well it's true and very sad IMO.

What benefit is it to Large corporations if you are not coming back for more seeds every year, since GM crops produce Zero seeds.

Originally posted by laiguana

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I guess it'll get a lot of attention - when it's too late.

That's my bet too...the media doesn't care to report on 'insects' as they would say. It's pathetic the way we let things go these days. And I also blame this on genetically engineered food varieties that are 'seedless' and they consider the bees their enemies, so much they have tried to ban them from their orchards. That's why I'll always go for organic varieties WITH seeds, the way nature intended.

westernfarmpress.com...

Seedless Fruits Make Others Needless

My hives do extremely well and appear to be fine, but what happens is one particular point the hive that is flourishing just seems to disappear within a couple of weeks. It is like the bees are forgetting where they live and are not about to return home.

Some scientist have weighed in and suggested that the earths magnetic field is changing and that has completely disabled the bees natural navigational systems to find there way back home and elsewhere.

Many mammals, animals and insects, in theory, use the earth magnetic field to navigate.

Originally posted by forestlady
If bees are simply disappearing from the hives, it would seem that the bees are not reproducing, right? So that lowers the population even more and makes it that much harder for the population to replenish itself.

[edit on 12-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by Long Lance

Originally posted by forestlady
If bees are simply disappearing from the hives, it would seem that the bees are not reproducing, right? So that lowers the population even more and makes it that much harder for the population to replenish itself.

only the queen lays eggs, so unless you lose the queen or all supplies, you're basically fine unless the hive is invaded.

Except that the queens are also dying. And if there are no worker bees to care for the queen, there is no queen! The workers even feed the queen, without them, she's dead.
I don't believe I've ever seen a hive where there are only queens, have you?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The Earth does not "gain mass" ... it is an oval shape, being that it spins, its mass is therefor projected outward on the equator, making the earth a little more ovalish, though hardly noticeable really..

Actually the Earth is gaining mass. Every meteor that burns up in the atmosphere adds it's mass to that of the Earth.

Thursday, 4.12.07

I found some information about GM and the use of the pesticide GAUCHO in France and Germany. They have been concerned since 2003 or before.

www.newmediaexplorer.org...

Originally posted by forestlady
Except that the queens are also dying. And if there are no worker bees to care for the queen, there is no queen! The workers even feed the queen, without them, she's dead.
I don't believe I've ever seen a hive where there are only queens, have you?

eventually, yes the queen dies, when too few workers are left, in this case, falling reproduction is a secondary effect, not the cause. queens normally don't leave the hive, so they can't just disappear like workers - which makes them good candidates for an autopsy, btw.