Racism and Understanding

Royal, that's a truly classic story, I loved it! It's nice to know that there are still people who would never put a price tag on their integrity.

I just had this mental vision of you tearing down the road, leading this huge conga line of police cars and rednecks. I'm reallly glad you got away, though, that could have been real dangerous.

Originally posted by forestlady
Royal, that's a truly classic story, I loved it!

I'll say! I vote for that one for Best Story So Far!

Has anyone ever encountered bigotry, including racism, that is based on anything other than fear?

Royal's KKK, uh, 'friends' as well as the white crews I worked with in La pretty clearly feared the black people would get 'uppity', or get the white women, or some such...

And we see this all over the place:

Bigotry against gay marriage because "it will ruin the sanctity of marriage"

Bigotry against Muslims because "they want to create a world-wide caliphate"

Bigotry against secularists because "they'll ruin our children's morals"

Against sectarians because "they'll push their religion on us"

Against Jews because "they'll get all the money"

You can look at pretty much any bigotry, and it is based in fear. Generally, either unfounded fear, or stereotyped, grossly exaggerated fear.

This probably started back in hunter-gatherer days... "those guys over there are going to steal our meat"

And without getting too far into conspiracy land, here, this kind of tactic (dividing a population based on trivial, but scary-seeming fears) has proven effective in more recent history to keep subject populations docile for the ruling class.


[edit on 9-4-2007 by Open_Minded Skeptic]

This is really funny in my opinion. You know that this is coming from a Black person posting. Or a Black Biased person ... and I have not read further in this thread that the 4th posts ... **YET !!! ... You say these are KIDS ... Right ??

Well when my kids make decisions they will be a reflection of what I have taught him. And I will take responsibilty for my kids actions. Even if it is just picking a DOLL. Or it is going out and partying ... My kid will know why it is important to not do such things and keep his/her life together. And have goals and reach those goals then set more goals.

White and Black will never BE BROUGHT up in my household. PERIOD.

I think these black kids may think that they are Lower on the TOTEM POLE then whites because of how thier Parents act towards the subject.

Originally posted by Old Man
I live in the north of England, a place where there have never been a large number of blacks, so, as a result, I admit I've never really given too much thought to the plight of black people.

That is, until I saw this video recently (posted below), which is a short documentary (8 minutes) showing how black kids were given two dolls - one white and one black - and asked to choose the one which was 'nice'.

The kids consistently chose the white doll as the nice one, which opened my eyes really to how black kids see themselves in relation to white kids.

These are only kids, and yet, already, they see themselves as being ugly compared to white kids.

Surely, the white population is largely to blame for this state of affairs. We are letting black people down by either being blatantly racist, or indifferent, if young kids see themselves as being ugly compared to others.

This ought not to be. And anybody who claims to possess an ounce of humanity, or in any way civilized, has no business looking down on another person simply because of that person's skin colour, IMO.

www.komotv.com...

[edit on 7-4-2007 by Old Man]

I think that these are your BIGOTRIES. That you are actually telling on yourself. Where do you get these "BIGOTRIES" from ??? Hmmmmm ..... ..... ......

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic

Originally posted by forestlady
Royal, that's a truly classic story, I loved it!

I'll say! I vote for that one for Best Story So Far!

Has anyone ever encountered bigotry, including racism, that is based on anything other than fear?

Royal's KKK, uh, 'friends'

as well as the white crews I worked with in La pretty clearly feared the black people would get 'uppity', or get the white women, or some such...

And we see this all over the place:

Bigotry against gay marriage because "it will ruin the sanctity of marriage"

Bigotry against Muslims because "they want to create a world-wide caliphate"

Bigotry against secularists because "they'll ruin our children's morals"

Against sectarians because "they'll push their religion on us"

Against Jews because "they'll get all the money"

You can look at pretty much any bigotry, and it is based in fear. Generally, either unfounded fear, or stereotyped, grossly exaggerated fear.

This probably started back in hunter-gatherer days... "those guys over there are going to steal our meat"

And without getting too far into conspiracy land, here, this kind of tactic (dividing a population based on trivial, but scary-seeming fears) has proven effective in more recent history to keep subject populations docile for the ruling class.


[edit on 9-4-2007 by Open_Minded Skeptic]

Sorry I couldn't resist !!!!!!!

Here is my experience with Racisim.
I am a military brat. Father was in the military, USAF. Anyways the first time I got a good view of sheer racisim and bigotry was when my mothers parents came and visited one day. Now as a child, having been introduced to the lessons of the civil war, I was under the misguided belief that those who lived in the north, like my grandparents on my mothers side, would be understanding and accepting, as those who lived in the south, like my fathers parents, would be more racist. Boy was I wrong. I remember that one day my father had another member of his unit visiting. My grandmother, from Ohio, pulled my mother to the side and asked, "What was that N####### doing in the house." My mother told her to be quiet as it could have ruined my fathers carreer. Later on when I visited my dads parents, my grandparents who lived in New Orleans, they were very accepting of their neighbors, of all Races. I never forgot that, but put it into the back of my mind. Later on when visiting New Orleans, as a young adult, I wandered around some of the parks. What floored me is when I was approached by a person of african american descent. When he refered to himself as a good N, I was floored and shocked, and totally left speechless.
If anything, from what I have seen, Racism is a 2 way street. Even today living in a diverse community, I see it. People tend to not want to live near those who are of a different skin color, and neighter wants to know the other. Most of the time, I tend to just shake my head and remain quiet, as in the neighborhood I live in, I am the minority. Do not get me wrong, I am friendly and do say hello to my neighbors when I see them, but non of them want alot to do with me. And as long as I stay quiet, we tend to live in realitive peace. I also believe fear has alot to do with such, as those who are one race in large communities are afraid of the other.
Those are just my observations.

It's always been obvious to me, when I was old enough to notice such things, that bigotry is a learned behaviour. Children are sponges, they'll soak up information from every source they run across. That's why it's so important that parents be involved in every aspect of the childs life. Parents are the linchpin upon which future events are based. Not the only one, but the primary one. Neither of my parents were biased, or at least not overly so, oh sure, they had opinions on certain subjects such as gays, interracial relationships, and democratic presidents. Even the disapproval was more along the lines of "not my thing" than flat bigotry. Or maybe "live and let live" is a better phrase to use.

My own views should be well known by now. I'm a very live and let live sort of person with opinions I, mostly , keep to myself.

Yet, you will give your opinion to your kids. Whether they want it or not they should know how and why you feel a certain way towards certain things. Where as certain parents let thier kids grow up in a "Live and Let Live" world. Which actually hurts there kids, somewhat although it has to be a median of both. Because if you make every decision for them they will never understand that feeling of doing chores all week long for that Allowance that they go and blow in one night on a toy that they may use once or twice. Yet, just saying it is doing nothing ... YOU MUST PUT IT INTO AFFECT for it to make an EFFECT !

Originally posted by seagull
It's always been obvious to me, when I was old enough to notice such things, that bigotry is a learned behaviour. Children are sponges, they'll soak up information from every source they run across. That's why it's so important that parents be involved in every aspect of the childs life. Parents are the linchpin upon which future events are based. Not the only one, but the primary one. Neither of my parents were biased, or at least not overly so, oh sure, they had opinions on certain subjects such as gays, interracial relationships, and democratic presidents. Even the disapproval was more along the lines of "not my thing" than flat bigotry. Or maybe "live and let live" is a better phrase to use.

My own views should be well known by now. I'm a very live and let live sort of person with opinions I, mostly

, keep to myself.

I think that if you look at our society here in the states and look how individual groups distance themselves with labels such as african-american, asian-american ect ect, it kind of becomes self fulfilling prophecy. Racism comes from not understanding and generalizing based on those misperceptions. I think if people stopped distancing themselves by categorizing themselves away from what we all really are, Americans, we could begin to solve a few problems. I'm not saying abandon your history and culture, but lets stop seperating and polarizing ourselves against each other.

Whatever I was taught by my parents, I was also taught to use my brain and make my own choices. That is what I attempt to teach any children in my life. I have none of my own, though I do have a neice I love more than life itself, whatever influence I've had has always been in the direction of thinking for herself and making her own choices.

Originally posted by ludaChris
I think if people stopped distancing themselves by categorizing themselves away from what we all really are, Americans, we could begin to solve a few problems. I'm not saying abandon your history and culture, but lets stop seperating and polarizing ourselves against each other.

Very nice. Just as people with different backgrounds can get along fine, people from different cultures can also get along. A poor farmer can get along with a wealthy businessman if they want to.

I heard something today I had never heard before. Dialog is the predecessor to understanding. If you expect understanding before you have a dialog, then you are going to be terribly disappointed.

I have seen this in action!

What about the emergence and awesome proliferation of the media in regards to individual racism?

I am not just referencing the News sources, but all media and communication.

Disclaimer:
I have NOT done research on this and it is only my opinion.

I would hypothesis that an increase in available communication and general information would see a reduction in overall racism.

My basis for this assumption is a matter of the eradication of ignorance.

Face it, Humans fear what they don't know. Genetic response to the Hunter/Killer instinct. (That I have studied.) Fear is passed on from one generation to another as is the knowledge and ignorance inherent in us all. The massive amounts of information available today should effectively dispel much of the unknown and create a larger "comfort zone" of understanding.

Of course this can easily be confirmed by simple observation. The prevalence of mixed race couples in today's society is an excellent example of the reduction in racism. No withstanding what Sharpton and Jackson say of course....

Semper

Interesting idea, Semper... I can see how it could work both ways, though. Widespread media infusion is as we know a very effective propaganda mechanism...

So I can see how the message being pushed by such media can make a big difference.

As an example, I'm leaning toward the opinion that the way this whole Rutgers-Imus issue is being portrayed is doing a dis-service to the 'cause' as it were of true egalitarianism.

How much of this percieved, at least by me, if no one else, increase in intolerance is a backlash against the force feeding to us over the past thirty years or so of political correctness, and being, if not in actuality, at least percieving ones self as being ostracized for daring to be different. We've all seen examples. I sometimes think that some want a homogenous unicolor onesize fits all culture. Many people, myself amongst them, rebel against this; and may be labled as bigots or racists. It's late so I'm not sure how well I expressed myself.

It is important to note there is two types of racism that are perpetuated in society. One is Individual and the second, Institutional.

Individual racism is the most easily overcome as people meet other people who are of a different race, they interact and overcome various stereotypes/fears.

By far the hardest to overcome is the Institutional racism as this concept has been entrenched into society since Aristotle (Great Chain of Being) and perhaps even before his 'acclaimed ideology'?

Inst R is indoctrinated into all facets of Govt infrastructure and institutions. Institutional racism is tettering out, but imo too slowly. It takes the likes of Ghandi, Martin Luther King etc to bring about major advances/change.

I just recently finished a paper on Criminology and Race. Until the research changes its criteria or the foundation of which to conduct research, the issue remains distinctive. The research method is outdated and has not caught up with multi culturalism. Most stereotypes simply no longer fit a racial typology. Here we have a branch of the Govt still conducting research based on RACE. It MUST move beyond racial typologies and base all research relying on the 'deterministic approaches'... A deterministic approach is by far the most accurate and DOES NOT perpetuate or indoctrinate RACIAL DISTINCTIONS, it does however, look into poverty, social status etc.

oh shivers, I am going on a rant lol

Govt Institutions have come a long way, BUT there is still much further to go. One of the most refreshing breakthroughs in AU was the 1967 referendum where 90% of Australians voted to change the racial distinction and inferior treatment of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders in the AU Constitution. Now, this was brought about by individuals and it is a very good example of how the individual can bring about changes in Govt Institutions.

The first was a phrase in Section 51 (xxvi) which stated that the Federal Government had the power to make laws with respect to "the people of any race, other than the Aboriginal race in any State, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws." (This is known as the "race power.") The referendum removed the phrase "other than the Aboriginal race in any State," giving the Commonwealth the power to make laws specifically to benefit Aboriginal people.Referendum

cheers


[edit on 11-4-2007 by NJE777]

posted by semperfortis
Racism,

racism
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
American Heritage Dictionary

A broad and complicated topic filled with emotion, hyperbole and assumption; contradiction, exaggeration and distress. Historical and yet modern in the connotations and implications as well as the effects and impedimenta that comes with racism. Evident in comedy, culture, industry and economy. It weaves it's way into almost every aspect of our lives and yet we avoid it, ignore it or blame it on others. This thread is about Racism. Not Slavery Not Reparations

I invite everyone to tell their own story, relate their thoughts and viewpoints on Racism and how they perceive it. understand it, or are impacted by it. We are not going to solve the world’s racism here. yet we may just come to a different view ourselves. An epiphany if you will. Semper [Edited by Don W]

OK. My life in less than 10,000 bytes. First, I take the position that any white person born before 1954 is prejudiced. Race prejudiced. North and south. Southern whites know they are prejudiced and try to avoid facing its consequences. Northern whites think they are not prejudiced. As the Federal judiciary came to delineate the two, the south was “de jure” - by law - and the north was “de facto” - by practice. Each form required different remedies that gave the south busing of public school students.

In 1948, President Truman issued an Executive Order de-segregating the Armed Forces. In 1952, I enlisted in the Air Force. I was surprised to notice in personnel orders or lists, that each of the black guys in my basic training unit had the following behind his name, “(N).” Less surprising to me, from Kentucky, was that only 4 blacks were in the group of 72 (Flight 2004 at Sampson AFB, NY). The AF recruiter in Louiseville mentioned that as a plus why I should enlist in the AF. There is some satisfaction in reporting that the Air Force treated all recruits equally badly. In 1952, most blacks were in the Army, a lesser number in the MC and almost none in the Navy. A token number in the AF. In the AF, almost all blacks were assigned to Food Service or Transportation. In the Navy blacks competed with Filipinos for the post of Steward on Navy ships.

“Steward” is a Navy word for servant. Commissioned Officers of the Armed Forces of the United States - AFUS - do not perform menial chores. Officers don’t make their beds, polish their shoes, wash or iron their clothes or clean the shower or toilet. In any branch. In the ZI - Zone of Interior - the continental United States - civilian contract workers perform those tasks. On Navy ships, Stewards perform this task.

In 1954, the most important case in American judicial history was handed down. Perhaps a slight overstatement, as Marbury v. Madison is ranked as #1. The #2 case was the Brown, et. al., vs. Topeka (KS) Board of Education. Brown v. Topeka or Brown v. Board, in shorthand. The decision was unanimous. 9 to zip. Which in itself staggers the mind! I attribute that to Earl Warren more than to any other member of the Court.

The North won the Civil War, but the South won the peace. Terrorism. The white South practiced widespread long time terrorism on the newly freed blacks. By 1896, the infamous case, Plessey v. Ferguson, second in evil outcome only to the 1856 Dred Scott case which is given major credit for bringing on the Civil War in 1861, had put the Court’s imprimatur on the doctrine that “separate but equal” was constitutional. Brown overruled Plessey. And thereby ended America's second shameful era known as Jim Crow.

I was 20 years old. A high school grad. In my 2nd year in the AF. I had been promoted to E4. So I wasn’t dumb or illiterate. But I opposed the Brown v. Topeka case. One of the weaker arguments offered against the decision was, the Court had decided the case on issues neither the plaintiff nor defendant had raised. It was an article of faith for judicial conservatives that courts could only decide issues brought before them. That is still an article of faith by those who oppose “active” judiciaries. If that principle was the case, it would stifle a vibrant society beyond its capacity to endure.

In my city of Louisville, the ratio of blacks to whites is 30 to 70. The dual school system had to be integrated. Because “separate but equal” had never be honestly applied, the black schools were all closed. The single black high school was located in a building constructed prior to 1860 and which served as a Federal hospital during that war. Almost all white schools had been built in the Depression by the PWA or WPA and where relatively new. There were 4 white high schools.

Prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and 1965, blacks traveling south of the Mason Dixon Line were compelled to use separate restrooms and drinking fountains, marked “Colored.” Some gas stations did not have colored restrooms and so, blacks were not permitted to use any. Texaco, the Man with the Star, was the first national chain to open its restrooms to all people without regard of color. Many whites boycotted Texaco.

Restaurants would not admit blacks to eat. A few had windows cut in the side where blacks could buy food (at the same price as whites) but they had to stand outside in the weather to eat. Blacks often carried brown bag lunches to be eaten in the car

Can you imagine yourself as a parent taking you 4-6 year old children south to visit their grand parents, and needing to go to the bathroom and you, the parent, having to explain that they cannot go because they are black? How’s that make you feel? Blacks often carried what was called a “slop jar” for relieving themselves.

So I was a part of that system. I see now how cruel, how crushing, how depressing life for blacks was under Jim Crow. How many minds did we waste? And yet, you hear not a word of hate or harshly spoken bitterness from any black my age. An example how the oppressor often suffers more than the oppressed. The oppressed consciences are clear, mine is burdened.

I warn those who indulge in or approve of torture that the victim is free when the torture is stopped, or he dies, but the perpetrator must live with himself for the remainder of his life. It is no dishonor to be tortured by your captor; it is the captor who is dishonored. The victim may be injured but the perpetrator is dehumanized. Racism in practice and torture are moral equivalents. Equally despicable. And I surely include those who allow it if they did not specifically authorize it. That’s a distinction without a difference.

This confirms my observation that every important issue in America either begins with race or it ends with race. I’m still prejudiced. I know that. But I try to overcome it every day.
E N D


Off topic aside. Assuming everyone agrees the Jim Crow system existing under the court case, Plessey v. Ferguson, was immoral, illegal and unconstitutional not to say inhuman, look at the following argument. The Executive Branch cannot write laws. Executive Orders apply only within the Executive branch. The Congress of the United States was dominated by Southern Democrats. 2 reasons. 1) The seniority system. 2) The Senate’s unlimited debate, the filibuster. This leaves only the third branch of our Government, the Judiciary, to right a wrong. In this case a huge wrong of long duration. The Warren Court did the right thing at the right time. An activist court saved America from a bloodbath. Don't knock'em.

[edit on 4/11/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I take the position that any white person born before 1954 is prejudiced. Race prejudiced.

So every white person 52/53 years old, or older, is a race prejudiced?

Considering your background and experiences I can understand why you might think that. But I am absolutely sure that is innaccurate.

posted by FlyersFan

posted by donwhite
I take the position that any white person born before 1954 is prejudiced. Race prejudiced.

So every white person 52/53 years old, or older, is a race prejudiced? Considering your background and experiences I can understand why you might think that. But I am absolutely sure that is innaccurate.

You know what they say, F/F, It's the exception that proves the rule.

Originally posted by donwhite

posted by FlyersFan
So every white person 52/53 years old, or older, is a race prejudiced? Considering your background and experiences I can understand why you might think that. But I am absolutely sure that is innaccurate.

You know what they say, F/F, It's the exception that proves the rule.

In that case it'd be okay to apply that assumption to race as well. :shk:
It astounds me that you've used a negative generalisation about a group of people when thats where the problem of racism comes from. There are some that need to understand that it does not matter if it's gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability, class etc. all biggotry is wrong and while there are still people who turn around and say "..but it's okay in this instance" the cycle of hate is doomed to be repeted.

posted by riley

posted by donwhite

posted by FlyersFan: So every white person 52/53 years old, or older, is a race prejudiced? I am absolutely sure that is inaccurate.

You know what they say, F/F, It's the exception that proves the rule.

It astounds me that you've used a negative generalization about a group of people when that’s where the problem of racism comes from. [Edited by Don W]

I believe it was Dick Gregory who said it was impossible for a black person to be a racist in America. Like bribery is a rich man’s crime, so racism is a white man’s crime. I hear it a lot. It’s like those who defend the Stars and Bars in a flag posted on the Columbia SC capital grounds. It’s like abandoning blacks who live in declining neighborhoods. Almost always the blacks are renters, almost always the owners are white of the Establishment types. Racism is America’s own albatross.

There are some that need to understand that it does not matter if it's gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, disability, class etc. all bigotry is wrong . .

No one can fault that platitude.

. . and while there are still people who turn around and say " . . but it's okay in this instance" the cycle of hate is doomed to be repeated. [Edited by Don W]

What do you think of the Corker versus Ford Playmate ad in last years Tennessee election? What do you think about the Willie Horton ad used in 1988? What do you think about the constant demigration of Al Sharpton on white tv? If you can condemn all of those acts out of hand, then you are definitely not one of the 54 year old racists I referred to.

[edit on 4/11/2007 by donwhite]